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do you guys know what the deal is with AVs running around when they are burning. I was trying out beasts/marine and it is actually pretty great how well they do, but the AVs keep running away and it kinda just kills it for me. it means that in order to solo the stage I have to go through and kill *everything* and just follow them. There's no way to have them not take fire/burn damage or whatever is doing this? I guess I could slot -immobilize again. I've noticed necro, demons, and beasts seem to cause them to do this. Necro with the summon phantoms power, demons with hell on earth(?) i think, and beasts with i'm assuming one of their final abilities. is this happening for other people? it makes me appreciate ninjas so much more after this, unless i'm just doing something wrong. I can't get them to sit still unless I use ninjas or something slotted with -immobilize. Which.. doesn't make any sense, because I thought the oni had only fire attacks. am I missing something?

edit: accidentally double posted

Thanks for the response. Yea i'm just trying to learn about MM, and i just like doing ITFs, so i appreciate any info as always. 2 things: 1) What do you think about assault. I don't have m30 grenade for my mercs build, or white cap (cause on ranged MMs I prefer to just keep my positioning clean and also I dont want req or rommy to 2 shot me if I get too close) but I do have assault. Should I drop assault and go m30 with force feedback to help with the recharge. I have like.. 9 seconds of downtime on power of the depths with hasten. 2) I saw in a topic somewhere that apparently in an older version of the game or previous issue or something, that assault bot was actually better if you didn't upgrade him and only did equip robots. Is that still a thing? something about equipping robots gave him missiles instead of the flamethrower. Was this changed, or do you guys just fully upgrade assault bot everytime now? It may have been an old topic, just curious. I figured I'd of heard about it by now if it was a current thing again thanks for the tips. I usually play tank/scrap, i've only picked up MM in the last few months and it's been a blast

One thing I was curious about. When I fought only stage 3 rommy with bots/marine and I only used web envelope.. he didn't get -immobilized once, like maybe a single time for 1 second. But it worked great on requiem and completely -immobilized him the whole fight. however, on mercs/marine I spammed web envelope and web cocoon on rommy and he actually did get -immobilized very consistently.... but I'm pretty sure envelope was the only thing that had -immobil in it. So I'm a bit confused. Does cocoon actually have some -immobilize in it that's not listed or something. I was using them slotted the way that you slot them. Or is it a thing where the same AVs can spawn with varying degrees of status resistance? like is it a %chance that some of their stats will be in a certain range or something per spawn? both times it was +4/x8. When I was on mercs/marine, I'm pretty sure envelope was the only thing triggering -immobile like, as i was watching after the shot. So I am just curious about your/anyones thoughts on this

for some reason I had barrier reef 6 slotted with reactive defenses .. is it way better to do lotg+5 panacea? I don't know why it was slotted with reactive defenses but I'm just wondering which is better. I might've referenced the wrong build

This sounds amazing, but there's not really a replacement for scorp shield in dark mastery is there? the shield is only fire/cold/energy or something right, there's no s/l. I want to try it though but scorp shield has been pretty useful I guess since I'm doing an ITF. I also wanted to ask, it's only web envelope from mace mastery that is -immobilzing AVs right? Web cocoon is only holds and it doesn't seem to do all that much to the AV. Is web cocoon more for -fly purposes? update: I was able to *finally* get mercs/marine to take out requiem, rommy and basically all the enemy spawns on the last section of a +4/x8 ITF, thank you all for the help. it was mostly web envelope that helped this so much, I should've tried it sooner. It doesn't quite work as well on rommy as it does on requiem but it still helps considerably, and is way way better than chasing him all over the place.

I just tried out web envelope/ cocoon spamming and i can't believe how well that works. i shouldve tried it before. now the problem is just fitting them into a build, but if my aim is to fight AVs i can make sacrifices. It actually works really well.

@Crysis @tidge @Meknomancer So I'm really having a hell of a time here. Sorry for the tags but you guys probably have alot more experience than I do with MMs. I believe I am using Crysis's ninjas build and mekno's mercs and bots builds. My main question is, how in the hell do you get AVs to not run around. It's really *really* bad. The only time I can get AVs to not run around all the time is if i'm using melee MMs, and ninjas/marine is the only thing I've gotten to pass ITF +4/x8 stage 3 with being able to straight tank/defeat rommy while being buffed and rommy being debuffed. They did way better than I expected. Haven't had as much luck with demons and necro. But back to my main question.. with bots and with mercs, they run and run and run. and with a group fly build for /marine, it's really difficult to fit in web envelope or other immobilize-ish powers, but would that really be able to stop them from jogging all over the place? I even tried just lowering flying pets to the ground so that they are in melee range, but rommy still just runs off. In order to actually kill him I had to clear the entire last section and just chase him for 15 minutes (And a pet got stuck on the stairs so I had to resummon...). i've even tried just turning off group fly and he will *Still* run off (not that that would even work since no kb protection at that point from evasive) I've tried turning off reactive radial since I thought maybe the fire damage had something to do with it, but no dice. Is there anything I can do. kind of at a loss. Also thanks for any information, if it's just not meant to be that is acceptable, im just trying to do what I can. Very much appreciate the builds and help.

Thanks for the info. Yea I like the set but I'm just wondering how it compares to mercs. Like what is the major difference there. I'm assuming mercs does more damage but might die easier, is there any real difference being the only 2 ranged MMs? if anyone knows. That's good info though, I likely will just get rid of whitecap for my bots build and get the 2nd rifle -regen ability. I was actually just fighting requiem and it was particularly slow with just one rifle -regen. Though that might just be how bots are as well, as far as damage output goes.

So /marine is very enjoyable, lots of fun to play. I've had the most success with ninjas/marine and mercs/marine. I wanted to ask, I've heard from several people saying ranged MMs are the best for doing hard content/soloing hard content, and I absolutely love mercs/marine with group fly, but is there any advantage to having bots/marine as well? I've tried them out in the beta server, they clearly do a bit less damage, but are they alot tankier than mercs? What's the main difference between the 2. Is there an advantage to having both of them available. I am surprised at how much success ninjas/marine has had but the buffs from marine make them so strong, and the concentrated single target damage is really nice. Brine really seems to do well on AVs and smoke bomb is great. I've struggled to get necro/marine to do what I want it to do, but i may not be using it correctly. My main issue with necro seems to be that it doesn't have the damage output, while also really easily aggroing anything in sight. And also, to add insult to injury, the specters use what im assuming is a fire attack which makes AVs run away from you. I could try adding assault to necro, i'm using a build that doesn't use assault. Honestly i'm totally new to it though and it could definitely be a skill issue. I'm using gloom after I summon spirits, etc. I am testing them on a solo +4/x8 ITF, which ninjas, bots, and mercs have all done well on. My test is generally being able to pass stage 3. (stage 4 is generally too much for MM/marine, aggroing the 4 AVs at once will just shred the pets. Maybe bots could do it in the air one nictus at a time? It's rough. There's likely a way to do it but I haven't really tinkered with it. The easy cheap and possibly subject-to-change way currently is to just not aggro any monsters at all, fly over to the house behind rommy and pull only him because the aggro limit seems to just glitch out and make this possible if you only pull him from afar without having killed any enemies in the zone. You might even be able to kite only him all the way up the cliff and around the zone to where he can't actually see the nictus, making the objective completed for only one death. But, I don't want to use this as a strat cause it almost seems cheap and like something they'd just patch out eventually. I don't know.)

Thanks alot for the response. it sounds like assault core is what i'll do then. But the point about activating it before summoning is something I definitely did not know either.

again hate to revive an old topic, but does anyone know the best hybrid for illusion. I'm doing illusion/marine and it's great but if assault doesn't increase phantom army damage i may go something else. no hybrid incarnates mess with phantom army damage? any up to date suggestions on this? If i'm soloing mostly

While we are on this subject do you guys take gloom for damage? Like for tankers. I know it's not exactly a high damage move, but the animation is fast. I believe I have it slotted with apocalypse, and it isn't bad damage if you've got glad javelin toxic proc + the apoc proc in it, but I am most likely going to just unslot gloom for damage (cause it seems relatively low without the glad javelin toxic proc which I cant use at the moment) and just 4 slot darkest night, then add a slot to adjusted targeting so I'm not losing the 10% apoc recharge bonus. I believe there's a -to hit set with a 4 piece 5%~ ish recharge bonus. So the question is, if you want darkest night, do you get gloom or the other ability, and what do you do with those abilities or do you just leave them blank. Cause as a solo tanker doing challenge runs and etc, darkest night is very useful and eases up on stretching the build super thin (Being able to survive everything but also do enough damage to complete everything in a timely manner) Any opinions?

Ahh ok that clears it up lol. Thanks So it's still worth it to buff the -to hit a little bit though. It only goes up to 23% from 15%? not counting resists or anything from higher level mobs

Not that it matters since you guys seem to have this covered, but what does it mean in the detailed info when it says "Aoe defense, negative energy defense". Is this just outdated. literally why does it say that if it encompasses all attack types for -damage and -to hit. pvp thing? I'm just curious

This is great info thanks. I mostly play solo on tankers, so taking this ability has helped quite a bit. It's probably worth slotting the -to hit a few times then, not too much I guess. I have always used darkest night, but I read the detailed info and it just made me question exactly what was going on there. But yea this info in this thread makes more sense.

Im sorry for bringing an old topic like this back up but I specifically wanted to ask about darkest night, cause i'm looking at detailed info and i just want to be clear how it works. It only says under type "Aoe defense, negative energy defense" so the -to hit only affects those types of attacks from enemies? is the -damage is all types or just these types as well? can I get an explanation as to what exactly darkest night does cause i don't know if Im able to tell from detailed info alone. I benefit alot from using it but i don't know the exact details. Is it worth slotting darkest night for the -to hit alone ? or just throwing a endurance reduction into it

trying to not make a new topic but since this is related to enhancements tankers use, do you know if gladiator's armor TP protection def+3% needs to be slotted into a toggle for it to work? or anything that takes resist damage. i'm putting it into one with the shield but all of a suddenstage 4 rommy is landing big 3k heals over and over again and i do not know how or why, and it's never happened before, nothing has changed on my build but that. it may not have to do with that but nothing at all has changed, all toggles are on, i dont get it. it's enough to negate the damage i do, which hasn't ever happened before, and ive beaten this many times edit: i am confused, I took the enhancement out and put it back into a toggle, and he didn't land but one heal and lost hp at a normal rate. it wasn't hard to beat him. But i have notes and a screenshot saying that I had it slotted in owts the other day and did beat him .. so I have no idea. does anyone know if this enhancement works if slotted in a non toggle or with owts? Maybe it was just alot of luck, I don't know what that attack is based on

thank you guys. I'll probably throw it in cobra or crippling axe just to be safe. Normally I wouldn't worry too much about this but I am trying to reliably and comfortably solo tank and defeat the 4 AV fight at the end of stage 4 of the ITF at +4/x8, no temps/inspirations/deaths with the 'Enemies buffed' challenge checked. The build can currently do this fine, but it did go to like...maybe 35% or 40% health at one point during the very long fight. It's probably unavoidable to have that happen during a super long fight maybe once/a few times in a build that is just absolutely stretched so incredibly thin with being able to not only tank all 4 of them under these conditions comfortably but do enough damage to kill them at the same time. That's really the only reason I'm trying to just be extra careful about being sure i'm procing the AT set procs to be sure they're hitting as often as they can. SD/MA is super disgustingly good. Thanks for the information. The only question I have left is, which of the AO set procs is more important, you guys think the stacking resistance one is the priority, or the absorb? The resist seems more important since it can stack and is a 6x a minute proc, right.

Do you have a merc/marine build that has group fly in mids? Or i was using this one, linked in the post from another topic, is there a quick switch to this build. I would love to try group fly with this. Mercs are insane. the slow combined with all the buffs, just makes the firing squad so good. And the range is quite far, it's awesome. I need to get better at just controlling the pets in general, like placing them in the right spots and setting up tide pool accordingly but the potential is just nuts. For how ranged they are the damage is pretty insane. I'd love to check out a fly build. Do I just switch out super speed or something, what're my options. also thanks for the help as always lol im learning about mm and yall have been a great help Also with group fly and flying builds, you dont have to worry about enemies with de-fly abilities? or do you take evasive maneuvers? MERCS MARINE - Mastermind (Mercenaries - Marine Affinity).mbd

The resist proc from superior might of the tanker, and the absorb proc from superior gauntleted fist, my question was, do these work like damage procs or other procs where the idea is that on longer recharge moves they will proc more often? Or is it better to just slot them in a move that you're going to be using often, or does it really matter. My main question is for like /martial arts on tanker, storm kick has a 2 second cool down, is that an ok power to put superior might of the tanker in, and will the resist proc trigger as often as one would want it to during cycles? I was just curious about how this worked on lower recharge faster damage cycle sets like /martial arts, because if you throw it in slower secondaries like war mace, or battle axe, etc, i'm assuming it might trigger more often. Is that even how it works, or can I get some clarity on this. It's a weird thing because I (and most people) slot the entire sets with the proc, which adds recharge (not global) to the move, so it should mess with the proc chance..? or not?

I did some testing and I am pleased with the results of ninja/marine so far. I'm going to put together necro/marine tonight in the beta server. But ninjas/marine was able to +4/x8 clear the platform that rommy and requiem are on on stage 3 of the ITF, and took them out with ease 1 on 1, rommy first then requiem. I was very surprised at how much damage they do. I didn't even use longbow or anything and they killed the AVs pretty quickly and comfortably. That's good enough for me for ninjas, more than I ever expected really. /marine seems quite strong. However, I did test ninjas/marine vs stage 4 rommy+3nictus fight and they would get killed pretty quicly even with the buffs. That fight might be a little bit too much for them. I'm not sure they can tank rommy + autohit nictus while wearing down all the AVs. it's rough. But I may just need more practice, and I might pick a lore to help out, maybe with healing or something. Do you guys have lore suggestions that might help with this or MM in general? I was thinking longbow radial, that way the invincible unit would help heal all the pets, and when there was one AV left it'd make it go very fast. Is there a better option, or a tanky lore that can pull aggro? Or specializes in healing more? I dont know much about them except pantheon and longbow. Ill try necro/marine for the stage 4 fight later. I'm assuming mercs/marine wouldn't be any better for this particular fight since you can't fight AVs at range anyways, they'll just run up to you everytime. All the information on /marine for MM has been awesome, I am pleased with it and I had no idea it was this good. really fun.

very useful info, thanks. I've got mercs/marine and necro/marine already made. So i'll be giving them a shot when I get around to it.

What's the upper threshold for mm/marine. Just gimme the hard truth cause I have no idea what mm is capable of. Like you can't solo +4/x8 ITFs right. The pets probably can't withstand the more difficult AVs even with barrier? Or can they. I'm currently building up ninjas/marine cause it's probably as good as ninjas are going to get in the short run, and it's quite a fun build. But I do not know anything about other pets, who are probably more ideal than ninjas.

Is the build posted in the first post still good to try out or should I add the changes from here. I've been wanting to give necro/marine a shot