Maelwys

It certainly looks weird. I know that Fulcrum Shift (Kinetics) has two power execution effects too; as that's the one I immediately thought of whenever I heard "two power executions" mentioned. Looking at the raw JSON code; both Fault and Fulcrum Shift each have their respective two power executions coded as two separate Execute_Power calls within "effects": However Ground Zero (Radiation Armor) has its two power executions coded as just one Execute_Power call within "activation_effects" (not "effects") Whilst I wouldn't expect the format differences to be causing grief to the PPM rate calculations... this is CoX we're talking about. Or maybe Fault and/or Fulcrum Shift are similarly affected and are also experiencing a reduced proc activation rate but nobody has noticed? 🖥️ 🧙‍♂️ 💥🧯

Shame; the proposed revision that it being reverted here had looked quite a bit better than what we ended up with on Live after i28p2. Proc activation rate in RT is currently extremely poor (28.77% base for 3.5PPM procs) so hopefully the future balance pass will smooth it out a bit. That said; RT is still miles better now than it's ever been in terms of damage mitigation against a nasty single target like a AV/GM; and personally I'm more worried about Ground Zero's proc rate (which from what we can tell has been reduced by roughly 2/3rds due to a weird bug and we've yet to pin down the cause!) than RT's. Hurrah! 🥳

Agreed! Also FWIW, Uberguy has just updated CoDv2. Looks like the new redirect that handles the healing component is indeed set to "Player Teammate (Alive)" rather than the original "Ally (Alive)", which explains why it's no longer healing any nearby friendly targets that you aren't teamed with. Unfortunately I still can't see anything obvious in either the main power or the offensive redirect to explain the observed proc activation rate reduction.

My expectations are going off a 15ft radius. The damage procs I've been using are each 3.5PPM and (as shown by your table!) in theory each of them should be getting their activation rate capped at 90%. FWIW I normally use a copy of MacSkull's Google Sheet for any quick PPM calculations (mainly because it lets me see at a glance exactly how far over the 90% cap I'm going + therefore exactly how much leeway I have to increase my local recharge aspect enhancement!) plus CoDv2 to find the base values to plug into it. Currently CoDv2 is still using the pre i28p2 patch figures for Ground Zero; of 15ft radius; 360 degrees, 3s activation, 90s base recharge. These values predict that for 3.5PPM Procs like Touch of Lady Grey, my Scrapper's Ground Zero with 80.90% recharge should be sitting comfortably over the 90% cap (~114.5.% before getting clamped to 90%!) If I increase the "Recharge slotting" value it shows that GZ ought to be able to take up to ~134% recharge before 3.5PPM procs will dip under the 90% activation rate cap. These expectations do certainly all appear to tie in with your table. The values in this table look right. However unfortunately they're not reflective of my current combat log results on either Live or Brainstorm. My Scrapper typically runs with 80.9% recharge in their Ground Zero; but I'm currently only seeing each 3.5PPM damage proc trigger roughly 30-40% of the time (rather than the predicted 90%!) regardless of whether I'm activating it on a single target (like the pylon) or multiple targets (like the large spawns in Terra Volta and Cimerora). I'll try to test proc rate in some similar high-recharge, high-radius AoE powers (a Blaster Nuke ought to do...) later this evening just in case this oddness isn't just limited to Ground Zero - I know at one point during i28p2 Open Beta damage procs were dealing lower damage than they should across multiple powers so it's probably worth ruling that out. You've got me wondering now whether 3.5PPM procs are being mistakenly treated as 1PPM or 1.5PPM procs somewhere; since the predicted rates for that are just about matching my currently observed numbers... 🤔 🔍 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Edit: So I did a quick check of a different PBAoE with a similar predicted proc activation rate (my Fire Blaster's Inferno) and it appears to be functioning just fine. Therefore whatever is happening here to skew proc activation rate; thankfully it appears to be limited to Ground Zero rather than a global thing. Predicted 3.5PPM proc activation rate is ~121.5 (where Ground Zero's was ~114.5) before clamping; so it's being capped at 90%. With 2x 3.5PPM Procs slotted: + First BOOM - 9 Foes hit. 18 proc opportunities, 15 proc activations (~83.3%) + Second BOOM - 9 Foes hit. 18 proc opportunities, 18 proc activations (100%) So that's a predicted proc activation rate in Inferno of 90%, and an observed proc activation rate of ~83.3% and 100% - well within the margin for error. If Ground Zero's proc rate was working properly then I'd be expecting to see a very similar number of activations to the above. But instead, it's currently acting like the below (despite having the same predicted proc activation rate and the same number of slotted 3.5PPM damage procs!) Predicted 3.5PPM proc activation rate is ~114.5 before clamping; so it's being capped at 90%. With 2x 3.5PPM Procs slotted: + First FOOM - 10 Foes hit. 20 proc opportunities, 7 proc activations (35%) + Second FOOM - 9 Foes hit. 18 proc opportunities, 6 proc activations (~33.3%) So that's a predicted proc activation rate in Ground Zero of 90%, but an observed proc activation rate of 35% and 33.3% - much lower than it ought to be. I could understand if this was just me being "unlucky" a few times; but other tests vs multiple targets and prolonged testing vs a Single Target (see my pylon log above!) is all showing roughly the same observed 30-40% proc activation rate instead of the predicted 90% proc activation rate. And it's not just me either - @ZemX noted here that the activation rate of their Knockdown Proc (which I think is 2.5PPM?) has plummeted from ~90% to ~25%...

Thanks - I picked up some unslotters and retested this morning with a single Touch of Lady Grey and different combinations of local recharge aspect slotted in Ground Zero: This was seeing proc activations roughly ~90% of the time on both Live and Brainstorm. This was seeing activations roughly ~70% of the time on both Live and Brainstorm. This was seeing activations roughly ~40% of the time on both Live and Brainstorm. This was seeing activations roughly ~30% of the time on both Live and Brainstorm. In theory Ground Zero ought to be able to take up to 134% local recharge aspect slotting in it before seeing any difference, yet versus a pack of 10-11 foes I'm very consistently seeing 7+ procs firing whenever it has 0% recharge slotted in it and 3 or fewer procs firing whenever it has 99% recharge slotted in it. If you're unable to see the same behaviour happening internally and there've been no related changes then something very weird is going on! 🤯 (I guess worst case whatever is causing activation rate to work properly on that newer internal branch will get pushed to Live at some point...) 🤞

Yeah; I did a fair bit of testing this afternoon and I'm observing about a 30-40% proc activation rate on my Scrapper's Ground Zero whenever it should be capped at 90%. I've submitted a Bug Report. Captain Powerhouse has already responded to confirm that the internal redirect power's recharge and cast time look OK; and I think I've managed to rule out anything funny happening with Accuracy not being inherited properly... but something has to be causing the proc rate to plummet. (At the moment my money's on some overlooked default setting in one of the new redirects that's making the PPM calculation think its base recharge is ~25s...)

IIRC Procs that are in "autohit" powers require their own Tohit check; otherwise they just inherit the Hit Check of the parent power. Ground Zero still requires a hit check; and all my rolls were capped at 95% (and successfully hit!). I guess it's possible that a new internal power execution/redirect has been set up in such as way that the child power isn't set to inherit the parent power's accuracy or boosts properly... but it certainly appears to be inheriting the damage enhancement OK. Edit: Nope it doesn't appear to be accuracy related. Just retested quickly as a Level 50+1 /Rad Scrapper versus a pack of level 23 Sky Raiders + Freakshow in Terra Volta. The vast level difference should have made any accuracy discrepancies meaningless: That's 11 hits, so 33 possible Proc Activations... and only 12 kicked in (~36% activation rate) Second check versus another low-level group in the same zone (level 25 Freakshow + Lost): That's another 11 hits, so 33 possible Proc Activations... and only 11 kicked in (~33% activation rate) So the observed activation rate seems pretty consistent here and also in line with my earlier pylon testing. (e.g. my Scrapper's GZ proc likelihood is currently sitting at about 30-40%, whenever it should be capped at 90%!)

FWIW here's a combat log of twenty back-to-back Ground Zero activations, standing next to a RWZ Training Pylon with the above Scrapper (80.9% recharge, 3x 3ppm procs): CombatLog-GZTest.txt Breakdown: 0 procs = 5 occurrences 1 procs = 9 occurrences 2 procs = 6 occurrences 3 procs = 0 occurrences Total = 20 (Admittedly a lowish sample rate, but enough to highlight the problem. That distribution appears to be more in line with a 30%-40% chance of activation than a 90% one!)

Thanks for checking. Unfortunately I'm not sure then why the current observed activation rate in Ground Zero on Live is drastically lower than what is being predicted by the PPM formula. (The observed rate seems to be roughly ~30%; but it ought to be 90%. And until recently the observed proc activation rate in Ground Zero was in line with that 90% prediction!) Ground Zero has a 90s base recharge + 15ft radius + 360 degree arc + 3s cast time; so if it is slotted with 80.9% local recharge aspect (as in my Scrapper) then each 3.5PPM proc within it should be getting an activation rate that is capped at 90% (~114.5% before clamping). My Scrapper's Ground Zero currently has three such 3.5PPM procs in it; each of which should be getting a separate independent 90% chance of activation; meaning that the likelihood of me observing only one or fewer of these three procs firing should be 2.8%. However currently I'm consistently seeing that very situation (only one or no procs firing) happening over and over again in my testing; as shown in the above screenshots. (Also there should be a 72.9% likelihood of all three procs triggering simultaneously; yet I only observed that happening once across a series of over 25+ tests this afternoon!) So something still appears to be very wrong here... 😕

You used to be able to hit any ally with it, including pets and NPCs. And pets of your teammates (I dragged one along a few times as a follower on MM Farming runs!) Grant Cover has a "player teammate (alive)" target restriction but GZ definitely used to only be "ally (alive)". There was no reference to increasing the radius for allies or tightening up the target restrictions in the patch notes, but certainly could be something funky going on... I just checked on Live; in Peregrine Island standing near to a Mastermind with their 6 henchmen plus both their Lores and my own Lores out: (i) When unteamed; Ground Zero was only affecting my Lore pets. It didn't affect any nearby unaligned NPCs, the MM or their henchmen or pets. (ii) When teamed, Ground Zero was affecting my Lore pets plus the MM, their henchmen and their Lore pets. Then whenever i tested the radius by moving 16ft away from the MM themselves but still within 14ft of one of their Lore Pets, it wasn't affecting the MM any more but did affect that (closer) Lore Pet. Personally I think it's more likely that the devs have split the power into two effects - calling both as redirected power executions (like Fulcrum Shift) but the Recharge and/or Activate Period within those two redirects is currently set very low so any proc activations are having a much lower likelihood than they should. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to code a power that contains two completely separate effects so that both its effects get their proc rates properly reduced by the parent power's current local recharge slotting. However the damage component could be kept within the main parent ability (like Incendiary Swarm Missiles) which would allow that bit to benefit from procs properly... and then the healing component could be applied via a single redirected power execution or pseudopet which has a larger radius and a different target cap. As Ground Zero isn't flagged to accept Accurate Healing sets and it only affects allies; the only healing proc it could conceivably activate would be Panacea so IMO there'd be much less of an issue if it was only the "healing" component that was activating procs less than it should. AFAIK the alternative would be to set the Recharge and/or Activate Period of each of the redirected power executions very high so that procs work pretty well in it regardless. Like they did with Tanker Lightning Rod.

As noted here by ZemX. I've tested this on Live vs a Single Target (Pylon) with 3 damage procs in Ground Zero on my Scrapper. Whilst they ARE activating its very far short of the expected 90% rate. Something appears to have gone wrong with proc activation chance in whatever tweaks were done to get Ground Zero to have different target limits for friendly and unfriendly targets. As CoDv2 isn't updated yet I can't determine the exact cause but I strongly suspect it's now calling a child effect that has a lower base recharge time for the offensive properties (including these Procs)

I did a fair number of Mission Simulator runs with my EM/RA Scrapper during all the testing and didn't notice any issues with the damage output of GZ versus a lower number of targets... but I only had damage procs in it rather than KD procs and I was kinda focusing on the reduction to RT instead. I think GZ only takes 2.5ppm Knockdown procs rather than 3.5ppm ones? Even so it shouldn't be getting less than 90% activation rate until you've 65%+ local recharge aspect in it. EDIT: Just checked on RWZ. I've got 3 damage procs in Ground Zero on my Scrapper and they ARE activating but certainly not 90% of the time. So something appears to have gone wrong with proc activation chance in whatever tweaks were done to get it having different target counts for friendly and unfriendly targets. Paging @Captain Powerhouse... 😢

You look like you're at level ~25. If it was me, with those power selections I'd be slotting them like this: And then sticking attuned Luck of the Gamblers into Stealth, Hover and Maneuvers ASAP. However I'd strongly recommend swapping Stealth for Infiltration and putting a Stealth IO into Sprint (you'd keep full invisibility but gain a useful Travel power) Picking up Hasten with your 4th pool will help with AM (and Nova) recharge a bit. Taking Aim with 1-2 Recharge SO/IOs plus a Gaussian Proc will also help you kill stuff much faster. Lots of other bits too obviously once it reaches higher levels; but that's the bare minimum IO leveraging I'd consider for "decent performance whilst levelling up".

Question: Are you running Choking Cloud and Enervating Field and Radiation Infection constantly? All three of those are >0.5 End/Sec toggles and should be taking the equivalent of 2x EndRed SOs minimum IMO. Throw in 2x Leadership Toggles too? AND HOVER?!? Also you're really shooting yourself in the foot by not taking the obvious IO procs: Panacea + Miracle + Numina in Health; Performance Shifter in Stamina. That'd provide more than an additional 1 End/Sec by itself and you wouldn't need to even rejig your slotting.

I actually ran a Sonic/ Defender for years on Live as one of my mains (it was the toon I used to bring out for MoSTF runs) even back before IOs were a thing. And IIRC even in those days it was perfectly fine; as long as you were sensible with the EndRed slotting in the two big culprits (e.g. Sonic Dispersion and Disruption Field) and took the Fitness pool. Although admittedly the passive accolades helped too. These days with inherent fitness and IOs and Procs/Globals/Set Bonuses? Spoilt Rotten. Really my only issues with Endurance on MMs have been to do with the Henchmen blowing through their blue bars... aside from my Bot/Traps Tripmine spammer circa i7... 🙈

This. The only characters I can consistently run myself out of endurance on (and therefore NEED to take Ageless on) are my VEAT Widows. IME Defenders are not Endurance Heavy; unless their player has accidentally left multiple travel toggles running or something equally derpful.

Also for any disgruntled Radiation Armor farmers... it might be worth keeping a close eye on Brainstorm. They're currently trialling yet another tweak to Radiation Therapy - effectively raising the proc rate again (although it'll still only be about half of what it used to be prior to the i28p2 patch) whilst simultaneously also doing away with the diminishing return curve and turning it into a flat reduction. The upshot is that this is good news if you're used to leveraging RT for AoE damage. As it'll likely become useful again; just not as overpowered as it was before the patch. For my EM/Rad Scrapper it's allowing me to reach ~55.6% of RT's previously attainable AoE damage over time, compared to the ~35.2% I'm currently getting on Live. So don't go rerolling just yet... 😉 (Ground Zero is likely going to stay as-is now targetcapwise; but we might be able to pester them into reducing its cast time a smidge...) Edit #1: Turns out Damage Proc activation rate in "Ground Zero" appears to be bugged at the moment too; they're currently kicking in much less than they should be! CP has confirmed the underlying cause of this has been found and fixed, so expect Ground Zero to start proccing properly again SOONTM. Edit #2: Ground Zero's proc rate is fixed again as of 8th July. It was missed in the patch notes but did actually make it in.

FWIW it might be worth watching Brainstorm closely if you're a Radiation Armor user. They're trialling yet another tweak to Radiation Therapy - effectively raising the proc rate again (although it'll still only be about half of what it used to be prior to the i28p2 patch) whilst simultaneously also doing away with the diminishing return curve and turning it into a flat reduction. The upshot is that if you're intending to use it for damage output then it'll likely become kinda useful again; just not quite as overpowered as it was before the patch. For my EM/Rad Scrapper it's allowing me to reach ~55.6% of RT's previously attainable AoE damage over time, compared to the ~35.2% I'm currently getting on Live.

Interesting. Under the original version of the changes this was 25s base with +20s for the first and +14s for the second and +9.8s for the third etc. up to a maximum of 90s. The next version (that made it to live!) then set this to 15s base with +12s for the first and 9s for the second and +6.75 for the third etc. up to a maximum of 60s. This revision looks like the same 25s base duration as the original (so the activation rate of 3.5PPM procs in it become 46.72% again instead of the current 28.77%) And with a -70% flat reduction for additional targets instead of -25% multiplicative it's not hitting their performance vs large numbers of foes anywhere near as hard. I've been testing various different slotting setups on my EM/RA Scrapper; in an attempt to get the best bang-for-my-buck in terms of AoE damage output over time. The most effective combos I can find in each case are below: ("Old" Live prior to the i28p2 changes) ("Current" version on Live after i28p2) (This proposed "New" version on Brainstorm right now) This revision certainly seems like a more reasonable balance IMO compared to what is on Live right now. Still lower spike damage (unless you're just fighting a single target) but the dropoff in damage over time versus higher numbers of targets is considerably less harsh. Adding more procs instead of damage enhancement aspect also appears to be detrimental; therefore "procbombing" will be bad but fitting in 1-2 procs is fine. From a mitigation standpoint the numbers are still much higher than they used to be prior to the i28p2 patch whenever you're only fighting a single target. Looks good to me 👍

Yeah that one went right up to the wire but it did get revoked after all the negative (but well evidenced and reasoned!) feedback.

I wouldn't say the effects have been positive for Tankers. But I would say that IMO they have been positive for Melee AT balance as a whole; and also that in the end they were much less harsh than I had braced myself for. IMO they actually did a pretty good job of balancing the Tanker AoE damage nerfs so that they only really hurt if you're consistently saturating your AoEs (by hitting >10 foes) due to the "overcap" damage reduction mechanic. The base damage reduction that was affecting all Tanker AoEs with a <15ft base radius got reverted in a last-minute revision before it hit live; so currently on Live unless you're hitting >10 targets the only thing you should notice is a slight decrease to proc activation rate in those AoEs. The tweaks to Cone attacks might be more noticeable for most players. These no longer get a 50% arc boost, so it's now much less likely that you will be able to hit multiple targets with them... and at the same time they removed the larger target cap (which IMO due to the aforementioned arc boost removal is is almost irrelevant; because it's now very unlikely that you are going to be able to reliably hit >5 foes with a melee cone!). However the reduction to Cone base damage was reverted in an earlier build; so at least the changes to Cones that hit Live have not negatively impacted anyone's single target attack chain (Staff's looked horrendous at one point on Test!)

Yes. Lots, in fact. Personally at the moment I'd go with a RadM/Stone Brute for maximum efficiency... but AFK Farming has never really been about generating bleeding edge inf/hour. Hey, I'd buy one... 😛

AFAIK there's not been a conflict with multiple PT procs locking each other out for many years now and when it did exist it was a "one per server tick" thing, not one every 10s. I've been merrily slotting Power Transfers into multiple toggle/auto powers on my Brutes and Tankers for ages and it's quite common to see 3+ activate simultaneously.

FWIW, this is the sort of thing I personally would be recommending for an "AFK Farmer" now. (And it'd run versus Fire damage foes obviously, not S/L damage ones!) zBrute RadMelee_StoneArmor (AFK Farmer).mbd (Average endurance cost of sticking via Atom Smasher on Autofire should be ~1.643 End/Sec; the slight deficit is more than covered by Panacea procs) As for "Active" Farming...? The playing field has been evened out a lot; so there's no clear runaway winner any more which IMO is a good thing. Tanks and Brutes when both at the damage cap (via popping red insps!) will be pretty close performancewise. Tankers will find it easer to survive; but Brutes will have a slight lead on damage output. Realistically you could pick either. Or possibly even a Scrapper or VEAT (even more damage, even less survivability!) or something more exotic (I've been known to use Stalkers, Sentinels, Blasters, Masterminds, Kheldians and Dominators...) In terms of Melee AT powersets; Martial Arts will likely still come top due to Procbombed Dragon's Tail. Radiation Armor has suffered now that Radiation Therapy isn't worth procbombing and Ground Zero hits far fewer hostile targets... but Beta Decay's +Recharge plus a toned-down Ground Zero is still better than what most other sets provide. Personally I'd put both Fiery Aura (Procbombed Burn and Fiery Embrace) and Stone Armor (Minerals +Recharge and Brimstone Armor damage Procs) up there as potential contenders; and both sets will be slightly more effective on Brutes than on Tankers because Burn ticks and Brimstone Procs are affected by Fury. And Mu will still be the goto Epic/Patron Pool for Procbombed Ball Lightning and Electrifying Fences. At least on Tankers and Brutes. [Edit: Slotting tweaked slightly after accounting for Mid's buggy handling of Brimstone procs - ought to be pretty optimized now!]

Brutes and Tanks are roughly similar now (with Brutes having a slight edge in raw damage but Tankers having an easier time meeting the survivability thresholds). For AFK farming I'd go RadMelee/Stone Brute. For Active Farming I suspect the Epic pool attacks that already have a 16 target cap will become even more useful than before. Offensive set ranking is unchanged since everything has been nerfed equally. For Defensive set, Radiation Armor's been nerfed but Ground Zero is still better than what most other sets give you, might be a toss up between RA, FA and Stone.