Maelwys

Fair enough. Luckily two of the currently-top-tier sets for "Active" all-round play have a Damage Aura: Bio Armor (Genetic Contamination DoT; plus Evolving Armor -Res) and Stone Armor (Non-Granite. Mud Pots DoT plus Brimstone Armor Procs). Of those two options... Bio has a hefty chunk of Absorb and more Regeneration/Recovery; but it has a gap in S/L Defense and lowish native resistances to E/N/F/C damage and it really wants as much global recharge as you can throw at it. Stone is far less reliant on global recharge, has native Defense Debuff Resistance and its only real defense hole is in F/C (which is easy to attain via set bonuses); but it has lowish native resistances to S/L/E/N damage (outside of Granite). Bio really wants a secondary offensive powerset that grants +Def and/or +Res (so Titan Weapons; Martial Arts; Staff; Broadsword, Katana, etc.) but Stone can realistically cope with anything (as long as you're taking Tough from the fighting pool and picking up some set bonuses). One of my favourite all-round BRUTES that can AFK AE Tank is a RadMelee/StoneArmor - and that combo would be much more forgiving (and so easier/cheaper to build) on a Tanker. Radiation Armor is another option; and its resistance spread is very good... but it's got much lower MaxHP and regeneration and zero native defense compared to Bio or Stone; and its AoE damage output from ground Zero and Radiation Therapy is getting drastically reduced in the upcoming new patch on Brainstorm. Dark Armor may also be a contender - it's getting some love on Brainstorm with the next patch; and has a very solid array of self-healing and damage resistances. But it has no Absorb, low +Defense and no DDR... as well as currently no +MaxHP or +Recovery (although there is a bit coming with the rework on Brainstorm). Finally... another way to go would be Super Reflexes + Radiation Melee. SR's high Defense, capped DDR and Scaling Damage Resistances can make it almost immortal when slotted up; so the only thing it's missing is a damage aura and some self-healing (which RadMelee provides). Not as offensively powerful; but a very easy ride.

Staff. The optimal attack chain grants you constant additional Defense (via Guarded Spin) and Resistance (via Sky Splitter with Perfection of Body). It's not going to be setting any records for ST damage (although it's getting a bit better on Brainstorm) but it's got a lot of utility and makes it considerably easier for a layered defensive powerset like BioArmor to reach the caps. Also... you don't need double damage aura unless you're AFK farming. Spines and RadMelee aren't great for active damage dealing purposes and they bring little in the way of additional utility aside from Radiation Siphon's Heal.

It depends. On Live right now (prior to the proposed nerfs on Brainstorm kicking in!) there are some specific defensive powersets that combo extremely well with Fury but less so for Gauntlet's radius and target cap buffs. Like Stone Armor (Brimstone Procs) and Fiery Aura (Burn) and even Radiation Armor (Ground Zero). The offensive powersets have a few standouts also, such as Spines (Spine Burst is a 15ft Base Radius AoE and Quills doesn't benefit from Gauntlet but does from Fury). And then there are multiple Epic/Patron AoEs that have a 15ft radius and 16 target cap by default. Overall for most combos, sure, Tankers are ridiculously ahead as long as they can keep maximum target saturation and I'm definitely of the opinion that as an AT their AoE damage output needs reduced for balance purposes. But there are always edge cases; and that's why I still have a few (carefully built!) Brutes in my current character stable. Even for AE Farming.

Conjure Gazebo!!

This sounds about right. FWIW, including the average proceeds from drops; an AE Asteroid Farming session with three accounts almost always works out at roughly 300-320m per hour total for me. That's with two toons AFK Farming and another one Active Farming (whilst most of my attention is on a movie or show of some kind streaming on another screen... so it's not exactly pushing any skill boundaries and could easily be pushed faster/higher at the cost of being less relaxing!). The two AFK farmers each tend to pull a little more than half of what the Active Farmer does. I honestly don't farm that often though, as a billion inf per character feels "good enough" for me and I've never really bothered stashing more in endless global emails to myself or in placeholder bids on the AH. And before anyone points it out, yes playing the market is still more efficient/faster/etc!! 😛

Combustion and Spine Burst both have a base radius of 15ft, just like Foot Stomp. (You can see this by looking at their stats on other ATs - like Brute Spines and Blaster Fire Manipulation). As such the Tanker versions didn't need their radius buffed and so didn't get their base damage reduced.

AFAIK Sky Spitter itself isn't doing any more damage. But it is whenever you use it under 3 stacks of Perfection. I'm getting ~415 on Live and ~495 on Brainstorm vs a Training Pylon (ED-capped damage with Musculature + 3x Perfection of Body stacks but no other Buffs/Debuffs) The "bonus damage" is the third hit (ignoring the proc activations).

Thank you, sincerely, for the response and explanation. And for listening to the feedback. I think it's rather telling that few (if any?) posts here have been of the opinion that Tanker damage post i26p4 is balanced and undeserving of a nerf... instead we've simply been trying to point out that the proposed reductions seem to be going a bit too far. I believe that the rollback of the radius changes to all melee Cones is definitely going to help alleviate the single target damage performance decrease I've observed in specific powersets (like Staff and TW) that rely more on those to shore up their attack chains. Regarding AoEs... as others here have pointed out, this new tech to only apply a reduction against "overcap" foes has a lot of promise for introducing new methods of balancing, and therefore is a positive thing. But getting the numbers on it just right will be a bit trickier. Personally I prefer the idea of a compounding exponential damage reduction (as it means you're still dealing a large proportion of damage whenever you're not achieving full target saturation - like when fighting "only" 12-14 enemies) but a flat reduction is definitely more straightforward and likely much easier for non-math-heads to understand. However I do still think that a 67% flat reduction to "overcap" enemies when combined with the base damage reduction due to radius changes is a bit harsh, since my tests are still showing that Tanker AoEs would achieve full damage spread (where hitting 16 targets on Brainstorm equates with hitting 10 targets on Live) with a 50% flat reduction (or with about a 21-22% exponential reduction). With that in mind, I would suggest setting the flat reduction at 50% and then adjusting further (up or down!) in future smaller patches if required as more data comes in though wider gameplay testing on Live. The goal that Tankers inflict similar (or slightly reduced) levels of damage compared to Brutes but spread over a greater number of foes is a good one, IMO, and if that's where the overall aim is here then it definitely helps clear things up a bit regarding HC developer intent for melee AT power balancing... which again, is greatly appreciated. IMO Single Target (and Cone) damage should be in a good place again with the rollback mentioned above. So that leaves the very careful rebalancing of their AoE damage (which as mentioned above, I think we all agree is needed... it's just a question of how much!) in order that they don't become mechanically obsolete on teams over a Brute.

Because I've not directly addressed this new 'design notes' section yet: Apparently the goal was originally to allow Tankers "to better compete with Brutes in damage in a way that was distinct by focussing on AoE output". Now the goal is to have Tankers "still deal more damage than they had in the past, and be AoE specialists among the melee ATs". However with the proposed changes currently on Brainstorm; I can see no mechanical benefit to bringing a Tanker over a Brute for either AoE damage output or AoE Aggro Control. And I suspect that one of the major reasons things have gone screwy is this statement: The bolded section is IMO a fallacy. Tanker Cones and AoEs are NOT dealing +100% or +60% more damage to the group on Brainstorm compared to Live. The radius buffs on Brainstorm have already reduced their base damage; so they are dealing an average of ~22% less damage than before. In addition, Tanker Melee Cone attacks can NOT "easily" hit 10/5 enemies. Especially with the reduced arcs that they have on Brainstorm. If the Devs really want to simply make Tankers deal the same damage across more targets - normalising their AoE damage so that Tanker AoEs inflict the same overall damage against 16 targets on Brainstorm as they currently do against 10 targets on Live ... then realistically they should be inflicting a flat "overcap" damage reduction of about 50%; or a compounding "overcap" diminishing return of about -21% (so that target 16 takes 21% less damage than target 15, which takes 21% less damage than target 14, etc, etc.). And if the "sweet spot" is lower, then reduce the reduction. Cones could have a slightly harsher reduction, but IMO it's so darn difficult to consistently catch a high (let alone saturated) number of targets within a 90 degree melee cone (yes, even when I'm AE farming!) that this is a moot point and so they could easily just be treated the same as regular AoEs. And if instead the Devs (as stated above) truly want to make Tankers "AoE specialists among the melee ATs" then IMO they really need to apply less of a reduction; or just bin either the radius changes or the overcap reduction mechanic completely. Personally from my own testing; my Tankers' Single Target damage output has dropped noticeably (because a lot of their attack chains contain at least one Cone or AoE; which are now doing less base damage - this is disproportionally affecting my Staff and Titan Weapon Tankers; and the Staff Tanker already has poor Single Target damage!). My Tankers' AoE damage output on the other hand has drastically plummeted. The impact is so bad that if the changes on Brainstorm go live as-is then I honestly cannot currently conscience the idea of me bringing any of my Tankers on a "kill most" or "kill all" Team over an identically built Brute; unless that Tanker is Super Strength or Battle Axe (due to Foot Stomp and Axe Cyclone not being as negatively impacted). This is very obviously not a good place for Tankers to be heading balancewise, so I would again implore the Devs to please reconsider the extent of the proposed changes and only apply either the radius changes or the "overcap" reductions, but not both.

Or (and it's sad that this is what is passing for "hope" right now) they accidentally implemented a flat -67% reduction instead of a flat -33% reduction... But I've given up trying to predict what they're thinking so I'll just keep on making unhappy incredulous noises until the next build and/or we see what lands on Live... 🤷‍♂️

This. Tanker's inherent schtick is now apparently that their AoEs are bigger and can hit more targets. OK. But that's only beneficial if (i) it lets you inflict more overall damage and (ii) it lets you keep the attention of more targets. What we have currently on Brainstorm is that whilst Tanker AoEs still have a larger radius and target cap; they also inflict 20-30% less base damage. So you HAVE to hit 2-3 additional targets with your AoEs just to break-even with the overall damage that you would have inflicted with them if they'd had exactly the same 'unbuffed' radius and target caps as a Brute or Scrapper. However because of "overcap" damage reductions applying on top of this; hitting 2-3 targets is not enough to break even; and under the current build you can't even reach that break-even point after hitting all 16 foes. So for damage output; the increased AoE radius and target caps is a trap - the radius buff is actually actively hurting your performance. The increased range on Cones is almost as bad - they'll now sometimes reach a break-even point vs "unbuffed with 5 enemies" if you can hit 9+ enemies with them. (Meh!) And for aggro control? Tankers already have an AoE splash punchvoke effect and the aggro cap is 17 foes. So again, an increased target cap on AoEs is practically pointless. So yes, IMO if this is what the Tanker Inherent now gets us; we'd honestly be better off without it (aside from bog-standard AoE Punchvoke)

This. At this point I'm getting extremely disillusioned by the direction they're apparently taking. Surely an AT's Inherent should be granting them some kind of a benefit; rather than inflicting a measurable penalty?!? I'd honestly be happier if they removed all Tanker power Radius and Target Cap boosts; and dropped every effect from Gauntlet other than the AoE Punchvoke.

I was feeling slightly positive thinking they'd normalised it to a flat -33% reduction - "OK, that's not as good as we'd hoped but it might not be overly crippling...". But nah; it's a -67% reduction. At this point we'd be better off just losing the Tanker additional radius and Target caps completely and not giving them any inherent other than AoE punchvoke.

Looks like another change on Build #5: Initial opinion is: they've made things even worse. For AoEs (1-10 base targets, 11-16 "overcap" targets) a 67% flat damage reduction means always inflicting less damage than the last build's diminishing returns curve. For Cones (1-5 base targets, 6-10 "overcap" targets) a 67% flat damage reduction means inflicting less damage than before until you start hitting targets 9 and 10. 🤮

Think you're missing a base damage bump against target 15 there? (Doesn't make it much better mind...)

Cheers. So it's a flat reduction but -66.7% not a -33.3%. At least it's not diminishing returns (yuck!) anymore; but looks plenty harsh still unless you're hitting a large number of targets over the "cap".

At work so can't personally double check this yet... To me "Diminishing returns multiplier changed to a flat 0.3333 for all powers after the default target cap" implies that now if targets 1-10 would take X damage; then targets 11-16 would take (X*0.6667) damage [EDIT: it's (X*0.3333) damage as noted below!]. In other words, all "overcap" targets are now getting the same flat damage reduction rather than target 12 taking less damage than target 11. And also that Cones are now being treated the same as AoEs (rather than each having two different damage reduction curves)...? Also this: Reverted the radius increase on the following powers: Powers that are balanced as single target attacks: Powers that accept range enhancements: Is definitely welcome. Shall test when I get home. Although it's not going to be a silver bullet for powersets which have Single Target attack chains that include "regular" cones.

I mean... Time Manipulation is the obvious powerset to build around. Do you wanna blast stuff? Corruptor or Defender. Do you wanna have mooks that blast stuff? Mastermind. Do you wanna lock everything down? Controller. Bots/Time MM is a very powerful combo at most levels; what with the Defense stacking and additional -Regen for AVs/GMs.

So let me get this straight... Snarky is unpleasin', sneezin' and wheezin'... 'cause he got Blinded by the Light? 🤣 Someone must've tripped the merry-go-round.

Question: Have any of your toons got Merits or Prismatic Aethers in their salvage tab? For Merits; visit a Merit Vendor (they're all over: including a machine to the left right inside Atlas Park City Hall; at the main door of portal Corp; opposite the Train station in Talos, etc) and exchange them for Enhancement Boosters or Enhancement Convertors. Then type "/ah". For Prismatic Aethers; there's no need to exchange them (unless you really want a vanity costume). Just type "/ah". Now sell 'em all; and swim around in your newfound fortune like Scrooge McDuck. Whilst yes, of course you can play the market or run around doing various content at level 50; there are a lot of ways to gain inf. It's rather difficult to avoid earning Merits whilst levelling up new characters; since they are a guaranteed reward for completing story arcs... and if you want to farm them solo? The Freaklympics arc is very efficient and easy to repeatedly rerun via the Ouroboros Flashback system at level 30+. Prismatic Aethers have a chance to drop from any regular mission; and rare invention salvage can drop at level 4+ and is very sellable too.

Foot Stomp is a 15ft base radius PBAoE. It didn't have its radius artificially bumped by the Tanker AT radius changes; which is what is causing the base damage of all the other Cones and AoEs to be reduced. This is not a set-specific change. They took the global radius buff from Gauntlet and increased the radius of all the individual Cones and AoEs with a base radius <15ft; aside from a few outliers like Shockwave. This has resulted in all of those affected powers having their base damage lowered in addition to the harsh "overcap" reduction curve on >5 (Cones) or >10 (AoEs) targets. Read at the two posts I linked above - or even just read the second reply in this very thread. To be fair; you're not by any means alone in not realising this - as I pointed out only yesterday; there are very few people who have read this: and thought "Hey; doesn't that mean that the base damage of all those <15ft AoEs and Cones is gonna drop by like 20-30%?"... but that's indeed what has happened. And yes, if they're keeping this change (which I think is a bad idea, as mentioned in the other threads) they 100% need to be much clearer about it in the patch notes.

It really isn't. (and yes; currently on Brainstorm a Cone like Guarded Spin hitting TEN targets deals less damage than the same power hitting FIVE targets on Live...) ⚖️ 🤯

Good grief that's some convoluted coding. Looks like double-damage in PVE but only to to "RAID"-flagged mobs? Amended. I really should've caught that one earlier - I was playing my /Ice Blaster again recently until all these Tanker changes smacked me upside the head...