Paragon Vanguard

I think they threw all tanks into one basket, and not all tanks are equal. I have an elec/elec that this won't bother one bit. It still may take longer but he is AoE strong, and end draining/gaining. Having to fight until you run out of end (from end draining bosses that ALL mobs have now) was a bit shocking on my main, Invuln/SS, considering I go after them first, and was fluffy fingering them. Keep in mind I started with this tank, built and rebuilt since before Homecoming settled the lawsuit (and was my main on live rebuilt). A better cycle of powers could be the answer! If they really felt the tank was over-performing, which I really really do not agree with in practice, if not in trial, then I think this may be a good fix that doesn't have to effect damage output, and can make the tank, a tank. Just my opinion, I know they did alot of work. It sounds like I am negative dev, but I just disagree with their fix. I think there are other non-damage fixes that can be implemented to separate Tanks from Brutes. For the record, I literally have more Brutes than Tanks. Thank you, this was the conversation I was hoping for. -Paragon Vanguard

I have to say, my scrappers do just fine. I can't really speak to stalkers. Of course, I never thought there was a Brute problem...heh. I tank with Brutes and Tanks, and felt they balanced out. I actually leaned more to Brutes. Its probably why it shocked me a bit with the tanker changes. My main actually DIED while trying to test him since I began yapping on here about this. Resources ran out due to the inability to kill, and that was only at plus 1. This is a tank I could cruise control on. Granted it was Arachnos and their end drain, but that is what got me. It took too long to kill the bosses, and I got drained. In the end, I have many alts to play. My Invuln/SS will have to go on shelf again till they fix this, if they ever fix it. Other tanks I have may not feel the pain near as much, especially the ones that can drain end and are easier to maintain. In those cases its just the fluffy fingers will make it boring, but manageable. I have some tanks that are AoE strong, and they will do okay I suppose. Haven't checked them yet. This will probably now cause a "oh, we need to fix something else", since not all tanks are the same, and down the rabbit hole we go, once again, that was not necessary. I guess with my Invuln/SS tank it hurts, as it is my main, and because that was my tank that I helped lowbies level up with.

There really is no point. He is obviously arguing just to argue and thinks he "wins" if you stop answering him. Let him "win". He is clueless. You do have the right of it. A nerf on tanks that did not need to be nerfed is the issue I have. There was absolutely no need to nerf the tank. It was not done because the tank was a problem, it was done because people complained about the Brute (as was shown in a post elsewhere). Now I don't have a problem with Brutes...I felt they ran very well.... but if they feel it needs looking at, then so be it. Instead of "helping" the Brute, they nerfed the tank. It will never make sense to me.

90 to 95% of the game IS end game and solo'ing IS the best measure. How do you measure team when team dynamics can change? How do you measure the final outcome if you have not reached the final outcome yet? Were you just being disingenuous you sly dog? 😉 I did not come here from reading about the nerf, I came here from playing my Invuln/SS tank (main) and it was so obvious a nerf I had to find out why. I run solo through a mission to get my mind set to tanking so I can bring new players/toons on following missions, which is what got my attention. I can still do this, set lower so we aren't spending a god awful time on bosses, or I can go with one of my Brutes. I can't fathom why I should have to avoid a tank "unless I am on a low level team". I would not have spent this much time on here explaining my position had people not erroneously assumed I was saying things I was not. I don't get on the boards much to complain, probably my first since Homecoming started, and people have tried to shut me down as if my opinion does not matter. Not the friendly community we should be/are known for. I have played this game since before there was a City of Villains, I wont be dismissed or trolled as if my opinion doesn't count. Peace my friend! -Always Paragon, Always the Vanguard 🙂 Note: If you spend more time getting to end game than playing end game, please get with me, I can teach you how to level past content you may have played too many times to count. Unless you are new, then please, enjoy the content. It's great the first few times or so and you CAN choose different mission strings.- 🙂

Fully tricked out? Neither. A Brute should be able to go from mob to mob, I do that solo with Scrappers. If my Brute has to recover, and I am assuming from damage, then I have work to do on the Brute. Both should be able to recover within the mob. If you are asking which you have to be more diligent on, then yes, the Brute. It takes more work to get him to that, but once there, he outperforms the tank in over all speed. Tanks can be a little more cruise control within the mob, with Scrappers having to be monitored very close. I hope that makes sense.

Agree completely about the scrapper. I was really talking Brute and Tanker, but you are right, it isn't about comparing just the two.

Please, just an honest answer. Who can finish mobs...dragging left overs or whatever....quicker? Even before the nerf, bearing in mind that the Brute, while taking more damage, should not be dropping. Who cleared the mobs and moved on? That's a measure, albeit simple, of over all performance.

No I was not. I was talking about over all performance. Don't accuse me of being disingenuous just because you don't agree. I have not been rude to anyone, except a troll, you don't need to be rude. I am very much in conversation, and if you don't like the conversation don't get involved. Pretty simple son.

If I can take the 400 damage hit and drop the mob, then you are definitely at a huge advantage when the tank, while only taking 200 damage, survives, but takes longer to drop the mob. Its the over all effect of who can take the damage, finish the mobs, and move on. The brute already could do that better than the tank. I accepted that, even before the nerf, as it seemed like a fair enough trade off. The tank takes lesss managing, but the Brute isn't falling, kills mob, and moves on quicker. I am terrible at explaining this, I am well aware. LOL

That is 100% true. Still I think it benefits to be able to speak out on things. I know the devs work hard, and I highly ....HIGHLY ..... appreciate them. If no one else feels like me about tanks, then so be it. It is what it is. You are so right though. Come tomorrow, I will simply have moved on, do what I need to make the play more enjoyable, and still love the game and still appreciate the devs. They have my eternal thanks and respect for bringing this game back to us, that will never change.

Agree totally. My Brutes perform well. I don't get the feeling that Brutes are under performing. I love Brutes, I play them more than tanks, as I feel they provide a more complete build ability. My top performer is a Dark/Dark Brute, a close second my SS/Invuln Brute. Yes, I do reach max resist in battle, but he is an incarnate. One of the points missed is 80% resist or 90% resist, you aren't dropping either way. If I can only get my brute to 80% resist in an effort to push damage, the damage is more desirable, and while a dead brute cannot do damage, dead mobs dont kill brutes. That to me was always the trade off, and always how the build difference was between the brute and the tank. With the nerf, the trade off really feels hard against the tank. I hope that makes some kind of sense....

Don't troll people, don't belittle, and you wont get called out on it. Ignore away, let the adults talk.

Believe me, tankers are not on the good end of any of this. I play both, and I would not delete any of my brutes yet! I love both, and I do not see where brutes are less than tanks. Different, I do agree, but not less. Much better now with the tank nerf. I would not suggest running to tanks.

Just had to troll. Always a troll somewhere. Was it because I said I would leave it. I meant with the person not trying to troll. Damage % means little when we are talking minions, both can clear a room in the same amount of time. Doing more damage making something deader doesnt make it more dead. You can feel superior all you want, its okay, but you still aren't right. You are....well....just trolling. Go back under your rock and let the adults talk. You call it wallow, I call it discussion, its what adults do.

Again, alter a maxed out build that was already something less than a Brute (due to damage), to be even less than a tank, and still less than a Brute, and call it balanced? Edited: I am sorry, I thought a Brute maxed at 80% damage resist. What was done is even worse.......wow. I don't know why I thought it was 80%, it must have been at some point and I assumed it was. So a Brute can max 90% resistance, do more damage, and we call THAT balanced? Awe man.....got me shaking my head even more. Just to say, cold written words don't really portray the feel of the post. I am not being argumentative or feeling you are being insincere. In person, this would be a smile and a conversation, not an argument. I won't be adding more on this, I can't say it any differently. I respect you, I love this game, and I appreciate the devs. I just don't agree with this ONE spot of a game I love, and truly hope others speak out. If not, I will invest in the pay to win pets, and still play my fluffy fingered tanks from time to time. 🙂