QuiJon

If it is a respec the 10m influ is just a few to get back to nothing. You dont keep what you have made so you would lose all the powers you had and have to make again from the start. It is basically letting you fix a good, which is ex as ctly what a respec should do.

Please tell me how? Hamidon so long as you get enough tanks can be taken down pretty easily. The zone cap doesn't make it harder or more likely to fail the encounter. It adds a bit of time for sure, but not a lot. The few raids I have been able to make it to sense the change that were organized it really didn't take much longer from the "Go fight monsters" to the "Kill the buds" then it normally took. So no it has not made it harder it has not made it less likely to succeed, if you are in the groups with capable players. And no the best possible solution to the second issue would be to address or cap the rewards to an acceptable level. Like I pointed out no other TF or event that gives you a reward menu choice at the end allows you to duplicate that reward within 20 hours. And TFs that do allow you to continue to get merits, also scale down those rewards by half each time you run then, not just the first time. So if you blocked out the emp merits to one per 20 hours, and the HamiO to one in 20 hours, and then put a true mechanism of halfing reward merits, really beyond running it three times a night it would be kind of useless. Which again, at the current difficulty and time commitment is not out of reach for one nights raid, and frankly at a continued 40 merits per run, considering you can do 2-3 runs in a hour, leaving that reward unmolested by diminishing the returns is the very reason why people continue to want to farm the encounter over and over and over again when there was no cap in the zone. If that reward had been changed then likely you would have one big raid per night, do 3 runs everyone gets their reward and they would all move on to do other things. Easy raid not not, that reward limit accomplishes the goal which capping the zone did not.

Yes i have. And frankly if that inconvenience that I, and others are suffering, solved the actual problem that people claim the raid had, then I would probably just accept it and say it was best for the game though just not for me. But I only see 2 problems that people have reported in this thread that the Hamdion raid suffered from. The first was that having so many people made it too easy. The second was that people farmed the rewards which are already high for the encounter but the speed fo the take down just made worse. This change solves neither of these issues. It is a knee jerk response to apparently being surprised there was no cap to the zone yes. But with 50 people like I said the raid in total honestly takes not a lot of time difference. One league can still pretty easily take down hamidon with only clearing his initial round of mitos and zerging through the blooms. Even if you fight a bloom it is not a big time difference. So really the idea that less people have made it harder is just false. Unless you happen to get into a hive with inexperienced raiders that don't listen to directions or don't expect to work. The second is the reward per difficulty. Which like I said this is still a very quick encounter for 80 merits, or a hancer that might sell for 20m influence or even for 4 emp merits. Takes about 10-12 minutes minimum to run a DA arc to get 1 emp merit so the 20 minutes it takes to raid for 4 is still way higher. And because Hamidon for some reason doesn't scale down the merit rewards beyond the first cut in half, even at 40 merits a run it is the best reward for time investment I can think of. Not many TF you can complete in 20 minutes that give that. So both those issues could have been solved by either toughening hami up in the case of it being to easy, or changing hamis rewards or how they award. (for example put the 20 hour limit on each reward option so there is no reason to run him for then 3 times and get one reward each time no matter if it is a 2 minute zerg or not) But a low cap on the zone doesn't prevent any of the issues people keep telling me is why the cap is needed. The only thing it does do is prevent players for joining a on going raid league. And depending on server populations and how many want to raid or other events taking place, most nights leaves at least some players out in the cold. All I am saying is if those were the problems then if it cost me my ability to take part I guess so be it, but at least solve the problem when doing it.

So you can data mine all this information from the live servers that we have been flooded with as to how many characters exist, how many player accounts, how many of each AT, how many of each power set, what their level ranges are, how many instances exist on the server at a time, what the population is at any given time, and for 5 months no one ever noticed that one zone in particular was hitting commonly a population level that was 4 times what it was supposed to be set at? Look even if I believe this and I find it hightly questionable, I still question the solution. So long as a instance gets a break down of certain ATs they need to complete a raid the raid is totally simple to do so long as people are willing to listen to directions. And capping the zone at 50 only actually means that 1 (ONE) round of mitos is commonly now taken out. So that 20 second raid now lasts 1 minute and 20 seconds because once the initial mitos spawn is down if you have smart players you can zerg through hamidon with still only 50 people and pets. (and I mean incarnate pets not even nukes or shivans) This is why I have vocally been cirtical of the change. The only real thing the change accomplishes is not to make the raid more difficult, but to at some point block people from being able to take part because not enough people come in for a raid to actually do it for another new instance that formed. And I would be willing to bet if you looked at all those numbers you can, every night since this change happened even if multiple isntances took down hamidon on the same server that at some point a new Hive spawned that capped out at just a few players. All those players were essentially blocked out from raiding because that zone never even got he chance to attempt a raid because of this change. And I feel like for an event in a open public zone that is not fair. People say "well THIS OR THAT is also instanced what is the difference" the difference is to do a ITF I don't need to find 49 other people that want to do it I need to find 7. And even if I only find 5 inmost cases can still do that TF or mission. Hamidon doesn't scale down to a 15 person raid any more then it scales up to a 200 person raid.

I didn't say I don't think it was boring, I said that I don't think the solution for that was to lock out players that want to take part. Find a way to include players and make it not boring. Hell even with only 50 players a MSR is still boring as hell I don't see how that has anything to do with players wanting to do something. They want the reward. First of all just because a ton of people started to fightin a raid doesn't immediately say it is broken. As I pointed out, one play fighting a map spawned for +4 and Eight players is also "broken" if you want to look closely at it. However absolutely NO attempt or suggestion has been made to say that needs to be fixed has it? Task forces and incarnate trials are instance missions and as such have a cap naturally. It is not the same thing as an enemy spawning in an open public zone having a limit put on it as to who can and can not take part in fighting it. Imagine if this was Lusca or Jack in Irons and you were not allowed to attack it because the game decided it would result in the monster taking to much damage to quickly. That is what this change is equivalent to. Most all playes only do anything for the reward so stop using the idea that the event is or isn't fun as a way to justify why you would want to do it. And honestly the more personalities in the zone, the more fun I have not because the fight itself is fun or not. Fighting that stupid rezing AV in an ITF isn't fun, it is done because it earns a reward. And even so that is not nearly as hard anymore as it used to be either, should we cut the team size of a ITF down to 3 to make it a challenge again? The lag I will give you. I know that got bad with that many people. But it was not horrible at 100 people so why cut it off at 50? Heck is wasn't that bad at 150 people. But even so if you want to use lag as the argument then that still would say the level cap could be higher, atleast double then what it is. And homecoming devs never said there was a glitch until they fixed it. You can not tell me that devs that are also playing the game every day didn't notice that the zones had no caps on them for 5 months and never mentioned it or that it would eventually be fixed. You also can not tell me that it would take 4 months to fix this glitch if it was a glitch and not an intended change that they regretted later. It would not be difficult to slap in to any weekly update a change to the code that capped the population limit on the zone so if this was a mistake why would it take this long to fix. What happened was it was done intentionally. I wont argue that I am sure the consequences were unintended. But it has been broken for 5 months I don't see why a better fix could not have been done in that time, or if it really was just noticed why a fix has to be done immediately instead of looking at all options. Hell how long was the martial assault set broken and they didn't take that away from players. They know the base slash command is broken and they have not fixed that because there are other issues with the legit power they want to look at first before taking that away. The rewards offered in this game as all just made up stuff. It costs no one anything for it to be broken while they find a better fix.

Again I know how to raid. I know how to raid this hamidon, I led raids against pre-i9 hamidon. I was on the SG that first took him down on my server. But please forgive me for not being 25 years old anymore. Please forgive me for after working 11 hours and getting home and spending time with kids, and wife, and finally getting some diner and doing anything else that is being expect of me on any given day, if all I want to do is relax a bit by playing a video game I enjoy and check out from thinking without having to take on the role of being a raid leader. And I know other people have real lives also. A while back you all said you were gonna take a break from leading raids. I didnt bitch about that or throw some fit that you had to keep doing it. If someone doesnt want to lead they should not be forced to. But this is not that. This is a game mechanic specifically in place that prevents players from taking part in content that is already being played in a publicly open zone. And we are not locked out because the server can not handle the stress or any physical reason. We are locked out because of some out of date idea that this game has some recognizable sense of reward vs effort attached to it. Well this game, when being played as "intended" allows for 1 level 50 character to team with 7 level 5 characters who all stand at the door and do nothing and kill an entire map at +4 levels. In normal missions even not just AE content. It allows when being played as "intended" for AV strength and monster strength characters to be taken out by single heroes or villains. Players to solo TFs. and multiple other things that in any other game would have been nerfed out if they even made it to live. So I fail to see how saying that having a zone population that allows Hamidon to be zerged is breaking any reward mechanic in the game. So while I agree that I, or someone else could step up and lead a raid if we choose to, I am saying more why should we have to if the encounter is being fought already just to satisfy some bullshit idea that this game has balanced rewards mechanics?

Well doesn't that just show you how the problem gets compounded even further by things other then just inability to learn to raid Hamidon? I mean what you are saying is I and a few others were locked out of taking part in a on going hamidon raid and from earning that reward with a team fighting hamidon, and not enough population to form another league, because someone chose to schedule a MSR at the same time taking away that population to a different event. IMO this just continues to show how bad of an idea it was to capp these zones. I mean an extra 10-15 people in hive 1 would not have made that encounter to easy but we were locked out, and likely locked out of a mothership raid also by the time we figured out that no one was coming to raid in hive 2. No offense but frankly missing a MSR is not a big whoop to me. I can make that many merits doing an ITF in about the same amount of time that a MSR takes. And frankly MSR are so boring to begin with I have literally fallen asleep in the huddle on the top of the ship. I will do them for the reward if nothing else is popping, but like I said it is not that hard to find 8 or less people that want to run a TF that can earn me that reward and keep me awake. I do get upset when I am locked out of hamidon though for no fault of my own. I am willing to do the work for the reward being offered and not being given the opportunity.

Well I do like the idea that someone stepped up to try and help people learn what they are doing, so thanks for that. However like I said last night I logged in about 30 minutes before normal raid time and stuck around until about 30 past, and the zone for hive 2 never barely even hit double digits for population. So even if we have people that know what they are doing, if the general population says the time investment is not worth the trouble anymore it doesn't solve the problem that people will be locked out now from taking part in content simply due to schedule or dumb luck or because their internet kicked them and they got replaced. No matter what kind of shine people want to put on it, this change costs players the ability to earn a reward that should be given to anyone that is willing to put in the time and work to take part in the encounter. That is what Hamdion's original "Intent" was and why he was originally designed as such a monster and originally had no zone cap.

I don't know about what happened Wednesday but since this change went into effect, the raids on excelsior went from being raids that commonly had 3-4 leagues to having Hive 1 that successfully raided hamidon with 1 league, Hive 2 be a spectacular failure of a raid because all the people that really knew what they were doing were in hive 1 and I don't know if any other hives even attempted it that first night. The second night I was not able to get online for so I don't know what happened. And last night I did get on line. I logged in 30 minutes early to an already full hive 1. I was in hive 2, stuck around waiting the population of hive 2 never got more then about 10 players, most logged in saw they were locked out of hive one and left and didn't return. So as I said would happen there are two possibilities, that more people will learn to raid properly and more raids over all would happen, or the population would revert back to a few months ago where there were about 1.5 leagues of players every night, and now that the half a league can not get into hive one to take part in the event, they are locked out of game content. I have never said I didn't think the raid populations were based on the idea of how easy people felt it was to get rewarded when 200 people were showing up for a raid. What I had a lack of faith in is that those same people would choose to learn to raid and run raids to make up for the inability to join the larger groups and not just go back to doing what they did before. And I think that is what is happening, only now with the caps it is preventing those that are wanting to come, and are willing to come even when it means fighting the longer fight from even being able to take part at all. That IMO is an effect that is not worth preventing the leechers or whatever you want to call them from taking part. Probably because yes I am one of those people that would come no matter what. But when not enough people even come to attempt to run a second raid a good 15-20 people a night are getting locked out of content simply because someone got a hair up their ass about how easy it was. And rather then just putting real diminishing returns on it like a regular TF or capping how many rewards you can take per 20 hours or whatever that would solve the problem of farming it at no end, they choose to lock people out of doing it. It was a bad remedy for a stupid made up problem.

Sorry but I refuse to say that something is a bug fix simply because it is different then it was on live. I would get it if say like the base portal slash command is a bug. They have said it was, and said in the future it will be rectified. But there has been no cap on the zones for atleast 4-5 months and not one mention that it was not intentional or would be fixed at some point. I don't think it is asking a lot that when they do see it as being a problem to consult or start a discussion on what the problem is, and how it could be fixed before just making a blanket change and calling it a fix. May things on Homecoming operate differently then they did on live. Yet changing those things would not be considered a fix any more then this is. The game came back in april and by may when many people were getting their first level 50s the zones were already uncapped. When more time has been spent on the servers with no cap then with a cap, with no mention it was broken and would be fixed at a later date, that is no longer a fix. And if you want me to "give it a rest" then stop responding to me and I will stop responding to you. At this point I am only responding to people that directly reference my posts.

I understand that not every change will be popular or without push back, but the zone cap changes were stealthed. You can argue that it was fix all you want, but these patches exist on a test server for months sometimes before they get pushed live. How long was there discussion on the "perma-fast snipe" changes before that finally got a finalized version of the change? And frankly a lot of that discussion that was able to take place shapped how those changes got implemented thereby helping to make a end result that was less a problem for people. But when you just drop in a change that was never even announced, and frankly was never said to have been a "mistake" or unintended change to begin with, and then "fix" it without any discussion then yeah I think they deserve some blow back for not thinking how this impacts their players. just in this thread alone, in 2-3 days when people get beyond just wanting to insult people by calling them names or accusing them of wanting win buttons, there have been 3-4 if not more SOLID suggestions on how this issue could have been remedied with less impact to players. Think about what might have come about if we had the same length discussion as there was about insta snipes since this was evidently broken back that far also.

If the devs want to encourage people to do other content, then it is well within their rights to adjust things in order to do so. One way would be to cut the merit reward on Hami raids; another would be to increase the reward on everything else. And people would complain about that too. Everyone seems to want an "I win" button. Heck, why not have a counter that gives you one merit for every ten minutes you are logged in and a purple recipe for every boss you kill?

First of all Hamidon didn't meat that target reward metric to begin with. Secondly if that is the metric then lets really use it, get in a TF and lets say you want a ITF worth 42 merits cap, but your team blows through it in 15 minutes, well you get 5 merits for your time investment. Does that sound fair? I am not saying that changing the reward might not have been needed. I mentioned back in one post maybe about making initial take down like 60 merits and then half to 30 etc. They changed the reward merits earned off the MSR a while back and it kind of pissed people off but we still raid the ship. And lets be honest there is absolutely NO chance of failing a MSR or most normal TFs either. So this idea of "with that many people winning is a given" is BS. I think I have been on 1 TF that could not finish since the game came back and that was because we started with only 6 members and then lost 3 of them due to internet outages during the TF and couldn't do the last AV on ITF with the 3 left. That is 1 out of hundreds of TFs I have run since last april. Again my issue with the change is not the rate of reward, though that was nice. My issue is that I am not 22 anymore. I can not game 5 hours a day anymore. Having nightly raids that I could attend was a viable means to earn a reward every night in a time frame that I knew I had available to me. The higher zone caps meant more people can attend, which means I don't get locked out of content in the game because I don't have the ability to be in game and then just camp in a zone for 60 minutes to get a reward. That is it, That is my complaint. This "fix" could have gone many other ways. Toughen Hami, lower rewards, change the mechanism of defeat so force fighting instead of zergs. but they slapped on a change that has the most chance to be a pure negative impact on many players that just wanted to be able to take part.

I didn't experience this, I was saying that the now luck of the draw timing that is required to get into a raid excludes players from content AS IF someone was purposely excluding the AT you wanted to play from taking part in a team. Because the cap will fill up the zone and because not enough people seem to know how to raid effectively to have multiple leagues going absent of working together in one zone, the time I am able to log in excludes me from taking part in content I would like to take part in. No, I agree with everything you said, I was just trying to make an example.

Even if I had the mind set that I was willing to lead the raid, which I really don't care to after working all day, I have to have people willing to want to learn. And my experience last night says they don't. There was a wipe and everyone just said "fuck it" and quit and left. Like if it wasn't gonna be a zerg anymore they don't care to be there. Maybe this will change as hopefully new people cycle through the hive 1 raids and get the hang of the long form take down. I hope it does. But I didn't see a lot of willingness last night to listen or learn from the group in hive 2, from the league as a whole or the raid leaders that were also obviously new to this.

Nothing in this is right. Hamidon was changed from his original form which was close to a crap shoot if you could beat him sometimes to this version that is essentially a slightly stronger version then what is in the LGTF. But it was changed so mitos spawns were set numbers instead of one per player. Mitos have certain weaknesses so all felt included. But when they made these changes the raid became boring. It was a time sink. If you had enough of each piece of the puzzle and were willing to take the time to do it right, you won, you would never lose. It was essentially like running a TF the only way you lose is if you didn't bring the tools with you to begin with. The issue is that when this change was done on live, no one gave a crap about HamiOs anymore because we had IOs out then. But hamidon now is one of the best reward/time investment in the game for the merits. So capping the zones makes it harder to even be included. So for many people that can not camp out in the hive to make sure they get on a team to take him down, think like if there was a great TF in the normal game that awarded 160 merits for 75 minutes of work. But you were on a Sentinel and everytime someone said they were forming a team you responded and were told sorry we don't like sentinels they don't do enough damage and passed over for inclusion. That is atleast why I am upset this change right now atleast is effectively exluding me from content.

I don't mean impossible as in can not be done. I mean impossible for ME personally to attend. I live on the west coast. Even at you alls current time of raiding that is only like 7 oclock here. I have to get home from work, eat diner, spend time with kids, help with homework. It honestly was not uncommon for me to even sometimes miss the first take down entirely by the time I log into the game. Now if as people seem to think, that the crowds just need to learn how to do it the right way and then we will have 2-3 hives of take downs a night, then not a problem. However back in may we didn't have this many people raiding. They started doing this really because likely of how easy it was or became when the zergs became possible. But those really became possible around 1.5-2 leagues worth of players. A population that we can not have in the zone anymore. So now if those players decide long form raids are not worth the time and go back to doing other things, and I am not on in time to camp out in the hive for an hour before each raid to get into hive 1, then my ability to raid hamidon is over. Now if people learn to raid and we can run 2-3 raid teams in different instances then I guess my problem is solved. I personally though don't think the raids started getting the attendance they did because people just decided to raid. Even those that came and helped were still there because it was considered the best return on time investment for merits. But in an hour I can farm 25 million influence pretty easy to buy a ATO or HamiO now anyway I just kind of like coming out and being with everyone on the server even if I am being a wallflower. So when I say impossible to raid I mean if people don't get on board with multiple instance raids and just give up on raiding, then anyone over that one league it becomes impossible to raid hamidon. But that is just it, you came into hive 2 late last night, so you saw a generally organized group of raiders that made a mistake to try and push through the spawn of mitos rather then clear them. But you didn't see the cluster fuck of idiocy taking place before that which lead to most of the league just giving up and leaving. I was following the blaster team leader and he was not even getting close enough to targets to attack them. But generally people didn't seem interested in sticking around to learn anything once they figured it wasn't going to happen they just bailed. And it isn't fair to expect you all and your experienced leaders to run 2-3 sets of raids every night, so like I said, if people don't want to learn and don't make a point of learning it will be impossible for over 50 people a night to raid hamidon.

To the first comment you are right it needs to stay interesting. But I would argue that the strength of this game, and why people played it for as long as we did, had nothing to do with making the content "last". What kept the game interesting for most of us, because if you remember we went a LONG time with no post level 50 content to play, was in the games uniqueness in that different ATs, and Power combinations played differently. We made Alts. We made a lot of Alts. And I see this as still being the case when I look at the numbers and they say how many individual characters have been made so far. And even if less players stick with it, homecoming doesn't have to maintain 4 servers we could go down to 3 or 2 etc. Point being is at one point this game was being supported in secret by just a few hundred players right? Other organizations run servers for even less then that. As for your second point, yes I say it does change it for the worse. For me it isn't about it being harder, it is about it possibly being imposible to raid hamdion now. I know the general idea right now is people will adapt and learn to raid making having MORE raids easier. However if you go back to may or so when we were commonly doing the long form raids, we didn't get 150-200 people at raids. We got maybe a league and a half. So it is just as likely that the extra people that want to raid now wont if it becomes hard again and will go back to doing other things. Now you might say that doesn't stop me from raiding. But yes it does with a cap on the hive or RWZ. Because even if we can do the long form raid which I don't have a problem with doing, I have to be able to get into the zone to raid. I live on the west coast. The raids on my server happen at 7pm for me. I get home I have to spend some time with wife and kids, eat dinner etc. I make it to my computer just by 7, sometimes even I will miss the first take down by the time I get on. If the population wanting to raid drops back down I wont even be able to get into a hive to join an ongoing raid. And if we drop back down to old attendance numbers there will likely not be enough other players to form a full second league to raid in a different instance, that is if those people are even competent enough to follow directions and raid on their own. For many of us it isn't a matter of "adapting" I cant tell my work I just am going to leave early every night. Or tell my kids I wont be seeing them before their bed time. If I can not get into a hive with a group that is competent to complete the raid, I can no longer raid. This is why I said this can be a bad idea. Sure we don't know how everything will fall out yet. Maybe people will learn to raid, but maybe they wont. But for those that can not log in a hour early and camp in the Hive yes this does "change it unequivocally for the worse" if we can not raid at all. And this is also not just changing to how it was on live. I was in the original group that used to take down hamidon on Liberty, we commonly had well over 100 people in the Hive on a raid. This has become an issue because someone decided that it was unfair for people to come into the hive and do minimal work and be rewarded. And I say if "fixing" that prevents people that do work from being rewarded as well, then the fix is not worth it.

I get that but I also think we need to look at the idea that this is no longer a commercial MMORPG. When the game was live a company profited off the idea of keeping things difficulty and time consuming. I don't want to sound unappreciative because I greatly appreciate what these devs have done for us over all in their spare time. But now our donations do support and keep this server afloat. So though I can understand fixing strait exploitive things, I think something like this that lived for so long broken and no one seemed to care, maybe should have been left to the server population as to if we wanted it addressed or not. Even back on live COH surivived for as long as it did off of the players making alt characters. In the last few years for profits we got system put in the game that extended the time it took to fully build a character out with things like IOs and later Incarnates. But I think it is safe to say that the majority of players that stuck with Homecoming one major reason for doing so was that it offered a more casual time investment then the "classic" game did. Incarnate stuff is easier, merit costs are lower etc. Essentially it made it somewhat less grindy to play with the altitis that I had back in the early days of the game. This change directly effects that dynamic that Homecoming offered. I do think there should have been some kind of discussion on how the players would have liked to see it handled before it was just done in a unannounced change. They could have run a survey or something that just asked do you a. want the zone capped, b. slightly lower merit reward, c. scale hamdion difficulty up etc. Most all changes on this server are announced through being on test and discussed before going live, this seems like it was just dropped on us. And no I don't buy the explanation that it was a fix from a broken mechanic when servers were transferred. I know I was on raids in both the hive and RWZ that had more then 50 people present before the servers were transferred. There might have been a cap but it was not at 50.

I guess my problem is being that I was in hive 2, is that ok fine those 10 people didn't get a reward I can understand how people see that as a good thing. But how many people that were stuck in hive 2 also didn't get a reward that are normally willing to show up to the raids, help kill monsters, buds, and actively take part to earn a reward, walked away with nothing last night because all the really capable raiders got into hive 1 and they were locked out. I don't think the changes should be predicated on preventing freeloaders or forcing a certain game play dynamic to match the intent of content. I mean if that is the point where do we stop? I mean hey how many times have we been on ITFs where people rush that second mission and ignore ambushes? Oh well those ambushes are there because the "intent" was to have to fight them, lets change that mission now also. Or LGTF I mean we put those 4 generators in that final room to make you have to fight all those Rikti, lets change that one so that you cant kill a generator until the room is cleared. Yes I get that this hamidon was made to be fought a certain way and the population allowed that to be by passed. But if the people wanted to come and take part they shouldn't be prevented from doing so. Their ability to get a reward should not be dependent on lucking out to get on a league with those that are capable of listening. You want the mitos to have a point fine, make hamidon impervious to damage if there are mitos around him. Hell make more mitos spawn if the population is higher. I am fine with scaling the encounter. But if they really want to talk about intention for game play. Well for the amount of time I spend in the hive 2 last night to walk away empty handed I could have went into my farm solo and earned enough influence to buy the ATO part of whatever I would have bought with the merits from a normal night of successful raids. So frankly if the ability level of the "extra" hives outside of the main raid group that already knows what they are doing doesn't increase this change just means I go from coming to take part in a social activity in a multiplayer game to running solo farm missions so I can keep up on building my many alts. And when "multiplayer" is right in the title of the game types description I don't think that is the intended game play either. Sorry Fox, prob only the first paragraph of this was really in response to your comment. And I also know that you and your buddies didn't have to come over after your own raid and try to recover hive 2 last night, it was very cool you attempted to help us. But I think by that point the damage was just done.

If I was in a group that I thought was borderline on the edge of being able to do it to begin with and we got a double or triple spawn and wiped I would probably leave. If we didnt have enough to do it before we certainly would not now. Doesnt mean I didnt hope to complete it.

And so then what happens when I am in the first zone, being flooded to spawn the second, and they say to change zones but I cant make it in time and someone coming in fresh gets a spot and I get locked out after waiting for like 20 minutes while the zone filled up? Might only be a couple people a raid but you know it will happen as the change is called while people are still entering the zone.

I prefer that we don't ask our volunteer GMs to start making that determination on "intent". If they have enough people together to get hamidon to a spawn or two then you can easily argue that they had enough people to attempt a valid raid right? So at that point you really are talking about guessing a groups intent.

Really cause they did just exactly that with Martial Assault on dominators. It had been broken since the set came out, hitting to many targets, the proc in the build up awarding wrong, the damage not scaling right. And they still let people use the power set and build characters with that power for months and months while they worked on fixing it correctly.

You are going to hand out punishments for what they can call an attempted and failed raid? What if they just come into the zone and half the single league is just refusing to help other then bare minimum to get a reward? Are we going to have to report them for "punishment" also? This is starting down a very slippery slope of using the ticket system to just report people for offending your personal tastes IMO. Seems like it would be much easier to just put the caps higher for the time being and solve the problem with a good solution like has been mentioned of converting the raids to their own instances.