Illy

I searched for a storyline guide, and low and behold this thread popped up. Its exactly what I wanted, thank you for making this.

Continue developing pvp around the interests of private, arranged fight clubs and artificially balanced arena matches, and you will see that 2.4% sink to 1.2% in no time flat. No one who is interested in pvp but has never gotten their feet wet wants to awkwardly elbow their way into these insular and idiosyncratic cliques. But that's the only option they're given if they want to start pvping: learn how to adhere to a strictly enforced doctrine of self-nerfing and arbitrary archetype bans. I'm telling you this from the outside looking in: its a cancerous scenario, and the un-initiated don't want anything to do with it. We're all too old now to show up for try-outs in some video game. That's why I suggested bringing the pvp to the noobs instead by introducing some form of world pvp, even if its just the option to flag yourself for pvp. Zone and world pvp allows them to play at their own pace, their own way, with whatever powerset they choose, and with whoever they want. Its way more friendly to the larger population of CoH than sweaty arena matches.

I didn't bother reading the post you're reacting to, but I expected when creating this thread that a few PVE-oriented players would be moved to visceral anger at the mere mention of pvp. I was not disappointed. They came to this thread to express their bizarre hatred of "pvpers" (I guess we're a "type"?). Its not worth interacting with them.

When players must resort to campaigning in order to raise pvp activity, in lieu of quality mechanics which by default attract people to pvp, they only prolong the miserable slow-death of the activity while at the same time expending huge amounts of effort, and for so little return. In my experience, when the burden is placed on the shoulders of players, those shoulders prove much to feeble even to save activity levels, much less bring about some kind of restoration. A more personal answer, though, is that I am one of those players who will get ganked by a min/maxer with a billion dollar build-- I'm a noob compared to most of these people, as I've had no reason to believe so far that a significant time-investment would be worth it for me, not until I gain some indication that pvp is on the rise. So if someone wants to exert themselves toward this effort, though it would be futile in any case, it would have to be someone who is, for lack of a better term, a veteran.

A server merger and the ability to flag oneself for open-world pvp is my last thought after reading all the responses. Just my opinion. But I don't think any idea would really succeed unless the general player-population issue is sorted by introducing a server merger.

Like America said, we aren't customers, so I'm not sure cost is relevant. Your next point is a valid one in that the pvp population was probably never large enough to make such a server popular, and if there aren't a high amount of players on such a server, the mechanic of open-world pvp would be pointless to begin with. I'm not sure it would have happened on live even if the interest had been there. The chorus of complaints or requests which arise from huge swaths of an MMO playerbase tend to go on unheard more often than not. But yeah, the option to flag yourself for pvp seems to be the more reasonable approach. It would be cool if they could implement that.

Even when a separate server is created for those who feel oppositely? Open-world pvp is a style preferred by a sizeable enough portion of MMO playerbases, which is why several MMOs feature it.

Sounds like a good idea to me. It would make paragon city much more immersive to see heroes and villains battling it out every once in awhile. Giving players the option to "flag" themselves for pvp has had success in other games.

My next question is, if someone organized a once-weekly zone pvp night, perhaps on saturdays, do you there are enough players to make it worth it? Could it be popular?

This was a thoughtful response. PvP not being in the "dna" of CoH is probably a factor that can't be overstated.

I'll do that, thanks for the suggestion.

This is fair, I'll concede to most of these points. I was surprised to see how few players were online tonight in general. Even if the most attractive pvp system imaginable were devised, there probably aren't enough players around anymore to make anything of it.

I'm not surprised that you think the people who still pvp in CoH are the "pvp" sort. The real pvpers left long ago.

Your only suggestion so far was to continue to listen to the same pvp community whose suggestions have been used to tune and tweak pvp into the current state that it is. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I'm completely the opposite; I think radical changes are the only thing that save dying features in MMOs, but that's just me.

Nothing like what I suggested was attempted... Nothing even close.

There are multiple servers which are designed to feature different playstyles for a reason. They could create a new shard if the players on indomitable are so opposed to it.

I'm happy to interact with people on this thread who are willing to have a discussion. Perhaps you can scroll up and look at the more reasonable and civil posters who have put forth their opinions without insulting me for no reason. When you calm down, we can chat, but until then you can talk to yourself.

They are on the only unofficial pvp server; I would say the fault is their own at that point. And if they are uninterested in pvp, that is fine, they would not have to pvp, but they may have to occasionally evade enemy players. Obstacles and danger are features which MMO players are more accustomed to than you think, and for that reason I think a lot of these players would prove themselves to be less fragile than you assert.

I'm sorry you feel that way about zone pvpers. Some of us prefer the sense of danger over the chance we might get one day to wreak havoc on noobs. I joined a pvp server on classic wow for that reason-- I was a noob, and never had the chance to faceroll anyone, as I never even reached the level cap, but had a blast running away/evading the zerg whenever they appeared in zone. That's why I like zone pvp. I don't think its fair to cast aspersions on this crowd, because they are probably compelled by other motives than self-adulation if they are over the age of 25. As far as your last paragraph, yes I agree, nothing short of a major rework will have the effect of generating more interest in pvp, which I acknowledge in the original post.

Generally speaking, pvpers tend to be their own worst enemy in this regard.

When I played last year, pvp was already close to being nonexistent-- it consisted of very closed-off arena matches played out between very stale group compositions (blasters and more blasters). As I contemplated returning this year, I gathered from various player-sources that pvp really has died on Indomitable. At this point, no alteration to the game for the purpose of reviving pvp would be too radical. What do you have to lose? Things could not be in a worse state. My suggestion is to turn Indomitable into a world-pvp server. Close off lower level zones in hero/villain territory to the opposite faction so that there is no hazing, but open up the mid-to-higher level zones to pvp. Get rid of architect entertainment on this server, or there will be no one in the world to fight. Turn on prestige again and allow pvp kills to generate prestige for supergroups. Yeah, this is radical, but for players who are really opposed to such changes, there are other servers for them. I'm convinced that the only other change which has a chance at reviving pvp would be to vastly improve the reward system in arenas and zone pvp, but to what end? The game is too easy for any rewards to really matter to players-- prestige doesn't exist, and there is no content in the game that can't already be beaten easily. A pvp system which relies on players basically pvping for the sake of it, and for "fun", always dies a quick death. For active pvp to be sustained, a logical reward system needs to be in place. That, or pvp needs to be unavoidable. Sorry for the low effort post, I typed this quickly because I realize that it has about a 0.001% chance of coming to fruition. Developmental work is unpaid, and the community has proven to be recalcitrant to any challenge whatsoever. But I thought I'd give it a try, because I miss pvp .

I would just like to say, as a player who is more on the outside looking in, so to speak, that it would be really nice to hear that all classes are viable and welcome in pvp. I would come back to the game at that point. If controller holds become powerful again, as they used to be, it actually necessitate more complex group compositions. Sometimes its good to listen to feedback from players who are outside of the entrenched pvp community. Take the advice or leave it, just wanted to give you my two cents.

Thanks for the reply.

I have 2 questions as a player who is currently absent from the game. 1. Is it active? 2. Are controllers still underpowered? When I last played it was just blasters alpha-sniping one another.

is a hold/cc buff on the horizon? this has probably been asked, but understand, I don't to spend a lot of time combing through the many pages/thread to find out 😛 If a hold/cc once meant certain death, to me... that means you avoid engaging a troller until you have support. Balance doesn't always mean perfect 1v1 equality.