Operative AT - I repackaged the old Striker with a new identity!

[Replacement]

5 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

What does the Misdirection move -do- exactly?

 

PBAoE Placate? Create a Pseudopet to taunt/distract? 

 

There's been a lot of suggested Misdirections. We need to narrow it down to explicitly decide what it is.

I've been trying to specify "Misdirection Clone" but often failing.  Misdirection is the "new" Concealment Pool power.  Aoe Placate.  But we would very much change the numbers (much better recharge, don't need the Resistance debuff it also adds, may need to remove the accuracy check).

 

EDIT: Though when I think about it, that could change depending on the power set.  You could imagine sets like Devices instead summoning a taunt drone in that spot.  The important point is that it should be a power that lends survivability through subterfuge.

 

EDIT 2: Which would mean sets like Darkness would get to be exactly like what you wrote, with a resist toggle in the first replacement slot and stealth toggle in the 2nd replacement slot.  But that should not be the norm for all of them.  I think "being able to evade your way back to medium range" is very important to pull off the unique feel.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Replacement

[Steampunkette]

5 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I've been trying to specify "Misdirection Clone" but often failing.  Misdirection is the "new" Concealment Pool power.  Aoe Placate.  But we would very much change the numbers (much better recharge, don't need the Resistance debuff it also adds, may need to remove the accuracy check).

So a Smoke Bomb Clone. 

 

I don't see a reason we'd need to remove identity from that, though. Take Psi Projection for example: Just use the Mind-Link animation, make the enemy's head glow, and say you've erased yourself from his perceptions. 

 

For Fire use Combustion's animation and when it hits give NPCs a brief cloud of smoke around their heads that keeps them from seeing the Operative.

 

Smoke bombs for Martial. Ice can lay out a thick mist. Earth can stomp up a dust cloud...

 

And we could add a defensive benefit to each of those powers, as well, so that the archetype, overall, retains the benefit of having a 'Click Defense' at tier 3 or 4.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Steampunkette

[Replacement]

6 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

So a Smoke Bomb Clone. 

 

I don't see a reason we'd need to remove identity from that, though. Take Psi Projection for example: Just use the Mind-Link animation, make the enemy's head glow, and say you've erased yourself from his perceptions. 

 

For Fire use Combustion's animation and when it hits give NPCs a brief cloud of smoke around their heads that keeps them from seeing the Operative.

 

Smoke bombs for Martial. Ice can lay out a thick mist. Earth can stomp up a dust cloud...

 

And we could add a defensive benefit to each of those powers, as well, so that the archetype, overall, retains the benefit of having a 'Click Defense' at tier 3 or 4.

I think we're on the same page, here. 

 

See also: Psionic Melee's taunt uses the "mind control" animation.  And it fits!  So yeah, same deal here.  Make it fit the set when possible, simple misdirection when it doesn't (like, uh, Atomic Manipulation).

[Zepp]

Just a suggestion, add a mez-break (like Burn's Immobilization break, only for all mez, to the "Misdirection"/"Smoke Bomb" move). That would add a lot of survivability and make it much more of a get-out-of-jail-free-card... At lower levels solo you could engage with a minion, kill it, then use it to leave the group. Wait a short while and re-engage with a smaller group. At higher levels or in groups it would become a panic button. So basically it would be an AoE Placate with +Res (all mez effects).

Also, rather than replacing a defensive ability, it would probably be better to replace a melee attack (if you really want to keep the build up power).

 

 

[Zepp]

Looking at a possible rework on the sets, here is an idea that adds in the AoE Placate, some defense, and some Manipulation (added Control for Mental because otherwise it wouldn't work)... The order is kinda standardized, but could be reshuffled a tad. I've organized them alphabetically by the proposed names.

 

Spoiler

 

Alchemical Intrigue (Radiation Armor +Atomic Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Beta Plus Decay	1	PBAoE Placate, Remove any status effects, can be cast while mezzed
Fallout Shelter	2	Toggle: Self +Res(Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Stun, Knockdown, Toxic, Psionic, Slow) (Add +Res(Confuse, Fear))
Electron Shackles	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT (Energy), Foe Immobilize
Metabolic Acceleration	10	Toggle: Self +Recharge, + Special, +Regeneration, +Recovery, +Res(Hold, Stun, Sleep, Immob, End)
Alpha Barrier	16	Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Toxic)
Beta Decay	20	Toggle: Foe, Taunt, -To Hit, -Defense, Self +Recharge
Proton Armor	28	Toggle: Self +Res(Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold)
Atom Smasher	35	PBAoE, High DMG(Energy/Toxic), Foe -Def, Disorient, Special
Radioactive Cloud	38	PBAoE Foe Hold

 

Cloak & Dagger (Ninjitsu + Ninja Training + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Smoke Flash	1	PBAoE Foe Placate, -Res
Shinobi	2	Toggle: Self +Def (Melee, Ranged, AoE), + Run Speed, +Jump, Stealth
Immobilizing Dart	4	Ranged, Minor DoT (Toxic), Target Immobilize
Kuji-In Toh	10	Self +Regen, +Recovery, Res(Psionic, Fear)
Ninja Reflexes	16	Toggle: Self +Defense(Melee), +Resistance(Defense Debuff)
The Lotus Drops	20	PBAoE Melee, Moderaat Dmg(Lethal), Foe -Def
Danger Sense	28	Toggle: Self +Defense(Ranged, Area of Effect), +Perception, +Resistance(Defense Debuff)
Blinding Powder	35	Ranged (Cone), Foe -ToHit, Sleep, Confuse, -Perception
Golden Dragonfly	38	Melee, Extreme DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockback, -Def

(Removed one defensive ability for Shinobi)

 

Cold War Intrigue (Ice Armor + Ice Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Cold Shoulder	1	Targeted AoE Placate, -Spd, -Recharge
Frozen Armor	2	Toggle: Self +DEF(Smash/Lethal), +Res(Fire, Cold, DEF Debuff) (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Chill blain	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT (Cold), Foe Immobilize, -Spd, -Recharge
Frigid Protection	10	Toggle: PBAoE, Foe -Recharge, -Speed, -DMG, Self +Absorb over Time, +Recovery
Wet Ice	16	Toggle: Self +DEF(All but Psionics), +Res(Cold, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Knockback, -Recharge, -SPD, -Jump, DEF Debuff) (Add +Res(Fear))
Ice Patch	20	Location PBAoE, Foe Knockdown
Glacial Armor	28	Toggle: Self +DEF(Energy, Negative), +Res(Cold, DEF Debuff), +Perception (Add +Res(Psionic, Toxic, Confuse))
Freezing Touch	35	Melee, Minor Dmg (Cold), Foe Hold
Frozen Aura	38	Melee, AoE Sleep

 

Electric Intrigue (Electric Armor + Electricity Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Shock	1	PBAoE Placate, Endurance Drain, -Rec
Charged Armor	2	Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Energy) (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Electric Fence	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Energy), Foe Immobilize, -End, -Recovery
Force of Thunder	10	PBAoE, Foe Disorient, Knockback, Self +Regeneration, +Recovery
Conductive Shield	16	Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative) (Add +Res(Fear, Sleep, Confuse))
Lightning Field	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Energy), Foe -End
Static Shield	28	Toggle: Self +Res(Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Teleport, End Drain, -Recovery) (Add +Res(Hold, Immobilize))
Power Sink	35	PBAoE, Foe -End, -Recovery, Self +End
Shocking Grasp	38	Melee, High DoT(Energy), Foe Hold, -End, -Recovery

 

Energetic Intrigue (Energy Aura + Energy Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Pulse	1	PBAoE Placate, Foe Disorient
Charged Armor	2	Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Energy) (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Power Thrust	4	Melee, Minor Damage(Energy/Smashing), Foe Knockback
Energize	10	Self End Discount, Heal, +Regen
Conductive Shield	16	Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative) (Add +Res(Fear, Sleep, Confuse))
Energy Punch	20	Melee, Moderate Damage(Smashing/Energy), Foe Disorient
Static Shield	28	Toggle: Self +Res(Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Teleport, End Drain, -Recovery) (Add +Res(Hold, Immobilize))
Stun	35	Melee, Minor Damage(Smashing/Energy), Foe Disorient
Bone Smasher	38	Melee, High Damage(Smashing/Energy), Foe Disorient

 

Fiery Intrigue (Fiery Aura + Fire Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Spark	1	PBAoE Placate, -Res, -Def
Fire Shield	2	Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Disorient) (Add +Res(Psionic, Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Ring of Fire	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Fire), Foe Immobilize
Cauterizing Aura	10	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Fire), Self  +Heal Over Time, +Recovery
Plasma Shield	16	Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Energy, Negative, Hold, Sleep) (Add +Res(Fire/Cold))
Fire Sword Circle	20	PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Fire/Lethal)
Temperature Protection	28	Auto: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, -Recharge, -SPD, -Jump) (Add +Res(Toxic))
Burn	35	Location (PBAoE), Moderate DoT(Fire), Self +Res(Immobilize)
Hot Feet	38	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Fire), Foe -SPD, Self -Fly

(may need to replace Fire Sword Circle with something from Fire Control, possible Cinders)

 

Martial Intrigue (Shield Defense + Martial Combat + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Anomaly	1	Targeted AoE Placate, -Recharge, -Regen
Deflection	2	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(Lethal, Smashing) (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Ki Push	4	Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash), Foe Repel, KB
Reaction Time	10	Toggle (PBAoE), Self Absorb over Time, +Recovery, Foe –Rech, - Move, Special
Battle Agility	16	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(Defense Debuff) (Add +Res(Fear, Sleep, Confuse))
Burst of Speed	20	Location AoE Moderate DMG (Smash), Self Teleport
Phalanx Fighting	28	Auto: Self +DEF(Melee, Ranged, AoE)
Throw Sand	35	Ranged (Cone), Foe Stun, -Perception
Eagle's Claw	38	Melee, Superior DMG(Smash), Foe Minor Disorient, +Special

(I think the animations will work with the shield, but not 100% Sure. May also consider replacing Burst of Speed with Shield Charge)

 

Mental Intrigue (Willpower + Mental Manipulation + Mind Control + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Mindtrick	1	Close (Cone) Placate, Confuse
High Pain Tolerance	2	Auto: Self +Res(All), +Max Health (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Subdual	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Psionic), Foe Immobilize
Drain Psyche	10	PBAoE Foe -Regen, -Recovery; Self +Regen, +Recovery
Indomitable Will	16	Toggle: Self +DEF(Psionic), +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Fear, Confusion, Knockback) (Add +Res(Fear, Sleep, Confuse))
Scare	20	Ranged, Foe Fear
Heightened Senses	28	Toggle: Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception (Add +Res(Immobilize))
World of Confusion	35	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Psionic), Foe Confuse
Total Domination	38	Ranged, Targeted AoE, Foe Hold

 

Natural Intrigue (Bio Armor + Plant Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Seeds of Distrust	1	Targeted AoE Placate, -ToHit, -Regen
Hardened Carapace	2	Self Toggle, +Res(Lethal, Smash, Toxic, Disorient, Sleep), +Regen (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Entangle	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Smashing/Lethal), Foe Immobilize
Wild Fortress	10	Self +Absorb, +Recovery, +Res(Toxic, Confuse)
Environmental Modification	16	Self Toggle, +Res(Hold, Knockdown, Immobilize), +DefRes(Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Psionic) (Add +Res(Fear, Sleep))
Strangler	20	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Smashing), Foe Hold
Evolving Armor	28	Self Toggle, +Res(All), Foe -Res(All), Taunt, (Remove Taunt, Add +Res(Immobilize))
Vines	35	Range (Targeted AoE), Foe Hold
Spore Cloud	38	Toggle (Targeted AoE), Foe -Dmg(All), -To Hit, -Regen

 

Shadow Intrigue (Dark Armor + Darkness Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Distracting Shadows	1	Ranged (Cone) Placate, Fear
Dark Embrace	2	Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal, Negative, Toxic) (Add +Res(Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Penumbral Grasp	4	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Negative Energy), Foe Immobilize, -ToHit
Touch of the Beyond	10	Fear, Foe -ToHit, Self +Regeneration, +Recovery
Murky Cloud	16	Toggle: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, End Drain) (Add +Res(Psionic, Fear, Sleep, Confuse))
Death Shroud	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Negative)
Cloak of Darkness	28	Toggle: Self Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Immobilize), +Perception (Add +Res(Hold))
Touch of Fear	35	Melee, Foe Fear, -To-Hit
Dark Pit	38	Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Disorient

 

Spycraft (Invulnerability + Devices + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Flashbang	1	Targeted AoE Placate, Foe Disorient
Temp Invulnerability	2	Toggle: Self +Res(Smash, Lethal) (Add +Res(Psionic, Knockback, Repel, Taunt, Teleport))
Web Grenade	4	Ranged, Target Immobilize, -Recharge, -Fly
Field Operative	10	Toggle: Self Stealth, +Def(All), +Special, +Regeneration, +Recovery (Increase Stealth to 200ft, Add Threat Level -100%)
Unyielding	16	Toggle: Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback) (Add +Res(Fear, Confuse))
Trip Mine	20	Place Mine: PBAoE, Superior DMG(Lethal/Fire)
Invincibility	28	Toggle: PBAoE, Foe Taunt, Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +To Hit (Remove Foe Taunt)
Time Bomb	35	Place Bomb: PBAoE, Extreme DMG(Lethal/Fire)
Gun Drone	38	Build Drone: Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal)

(Not sure about this pairing, but it could be looked at as body armor)
 

Tactical Intrigue (Super Reflexes + Tactical Arrow + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Flashbang Arrow	1	Targeted AoE Placate, Foe Disorient
Focused Fighting	2	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(Confuse, DEF Debuff)
Electrified Net Arrow	4	Ranged Moderate DoT(Energy), Foe Immobilize, -Fly, Slow
Eagle Eye	10	Toggle: Self +Acc, +Per, Res(Debuff ToHit), +Special, +Reg, +Rec
Focused Senses	16	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
Ice Arrow	20	Ranged, Foe Hold, -Spd, -Recharge
Evasion	28	Toggle: Self +DEF(AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff)
Agility	35	Auto: Self +Recharge, +Spd, +Res(Slow)
Gymnastics	38	Toggle: Self +Jump, +Def(All), +Res(Immobilize, Hold, Stun, Knockback)

(Agility and Gymnastics are great, but this leaves only three types of arrow shots. May need to consider merging Evasion and Focused Senses like Danger Sense and moving Gymnastics in that slot to open space for another arrow type)

 

Temporal Intrigue (Regeneration + Temporal Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Anomaly	1	AoE Placate, -Recharge, -Regen
Integration	2	Toggle: Self +Resistance(Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize), +Regeneration (Add +Res(Confuse, Fear))
Time Wall	4	Ranged, -Speed, -Recharge, -Regen, Special
Temporal Healing	10	Self  +Absorb, +Recovery, +Res(Slow, Regen Debuff)
Resilience	16	Auto: Self +Resistance(Disorient, Smash, Lethal, Toxic) (Add +Res(Fire, Cold))
End of Time	20	PBAoE High Damage (Cold/Energy)
Dull Pain	28	Self: +Max Health (Add +Reg)
Time Shift	35	AoE Foe Disorient, -Spd, -ToHit
Time Lord	38	Auto: Self +Recharge, +Res(Slow, Energy, Stun)

(This set has a lot of Regen in it, but (as noted) Dull Pain may need a little more regen to make it functional)

 

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Zepp
Rework and recolor

[Zepp]

So, @Replacement Just to clarify, the current proposed inherent is:

• A bar that is always building.
• Attacking depletes the bar.
• Players gain secondary effects bonuses and mez protections based on the number of segments completely full on the bar.
• [Archetype design incorporates minimized base threat and threat multiplier]

& @Steampunkette Thoughts on the proposed identity-centric Placate abilities [previous post]? I placed them as T₁  powers, but they could be moved around.
 

[Steampunkette]

7 hours ago, Zepp said:

So, @Replacement Just to clarify, the current proposed inherent is:

• A bar that is always building.
• Attacking depletes the bar.
• Players gain secondary effects bonuses and mez protections based on the number of segments completely full on the bar.
• [Archetype design incorporates minimized base threat and threat multiplier]

& @Steampunkette Thoughts on the proposed identity-centric Placate abilities [previous post]? I placed them as T₁  powers, but they could be moved around.
 

I feel like it would be better suited at a higher tier. Even with defensive buffs applied to the power, presumably lasting a few seconds after activation, it's mostly going to function as an "You don't see meeeee!" power. One which focuses on the higher combat function 'Placate' rather than the lower combat function 'Buffs'

 

I can't, for example, see the AoE placate +22% S/L resistance buff as something that the player can use once per minute with a 1 minute duration on the 22% S/L resistance buff.

 

I feel like the baseline stealth and protective power kind of set the tone for the character. A tone which the later AoE Placate effect capitalizes on and cements.

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

I feel like it would be better suited at a higher tier. Even with defensive buffs applied to the power, presumably lasting a few seconds after activation, it's mostly going to function as an "You don't see meeeee!" power. One which focuses on the higher combat function 'Placate' rather than the lower combat function 'Buffs'

 

I can't, for example, see the AoE placate +22% S/L resistance buff as something that the player can use once per minute with a 1 minute duration on the 22% S/L resistance buff.

 

I feel like the baseline stealth and protective power kind of set the tone for the character. A tone which the later AoE Placate effect capitalizes on and cements.

I didn't actually put any defense or resistance into the AoE placate abilities. Sorry, I thought that had been dropped. That being said, it does make sense to shift it later, So, are you thinking T₅ after the sustain? Start off with a defensive ability or the immobilize?

[Steampunkette]

If I had my druthers:

 

Tier 1: Defensive Toggle (12.75% Defense or 22.5% Resistance)

Tier 2: AoE Immobilize (Or Sleep for Psychic/Electric)

Tier 3: AoE Placate with short Defensive Boost (Lasts 30 seconds or so, Recharges in 45 seconds, ignores Recharge)

Tier 4: First Manipulation Power

Tier 5: Sustain from Manipulation

Tier 6: Manipulation

Tier 7: Manipulation

Tier 8: Manipulation

Tier 9: Manipulation or Control

 

And then Specific Sets, like Psychic, would need to shift some of their powers from the Manipulation into the Assault. Like Drain Psyche in Assault needs to be removed for Psionic Tornado from the Manipulation set, since Manipulation uses Drain Psyche as it's Sustain. Instead we can put a Control effect, there, to show Psychic is a more control-centered secondary than one of the others.

[Zepp]

So a new universal Toggle associated with each Manipulation Set, an AoE immobilize/Sleep from a control set, A new placate with 66.67% defensive efficacy (you are vulnerable 1/3 of the time), then manipulation powers with the sustain moved to T₅? The T₁ immobilize coming after the AoE immobilize?

 

That means you would need about 6 unique Manipulation powers for each set. Let's take a look (suggestions that are underlined are duplicated, other suggestions based on popularity)

Atomic Manipulation: 8 [drop Atom Smasher, Negatron Slam, & Positron Cell?]

Darkness Manipulation: 7 [drop Smite, Midnight Grasp, & Shadow Maul?]

Devices: 9 [drop Taser, Time Bomb, & Trip Mine?]

Electricity Manipulation: 5 [drop Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, Build Up, & Thunder Strike, then add Power Boost?]

Energy: 7 [drop Bone Smasher, Power Boost, Energy Punch, & Stun, then add Build Up?]

Fire Manipulation: 7 [drop Combustion, Consume, & Fire Sword?]

Ice Manipulation: 8 [drop Ice Sword, Frozen Fists, & Frozen Aura?]

Martial Combat: 8 [drop Dragon's Tail, Throw Sand, and Storm Kick?]

Mental Manipulation: 5 [drop Mind Probe, Telekinetic Thrust, & Psychic Scream, then remove Drain Psyche from Psionic Assault and add Psionic Tornado

Ninja Training: 9 [drop Choking Powder, Blinding Powder, & Smoke Flash]

Plant Manipulation: 6 [drop Skewer, Thorn Burst, & Ripper?]

Tactical Arrow: 9 [drop Ice Arrow, Flash Arrow, and ESD Arrow?]

Temporal Manipulation: 9 [drop Aging Touch, Future Pain, & Time Shift?]

 

There is another issue, both Assault and Manipulation sets tend to have a Power Boost or Build Up type power. Should Assault Sets with one be changed to Build Up, and Manipulation Sets be changed to Power Boost?

I'm thinking the T1 from the Manipulation set should be the T2, and the AoE Immobilize/Sleep should be around T₆ or T₇. Would Shinobi be the Defensive Toggle or would Ninja Training have two toggles? Gymnastics for Tactical Arrow? How would you deal with Field Operative?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Zepp

[Steampunkette]

Not a "New Universal Toggle" just "A Defensive Toggle"

 

So, like, Psychic would get Mind Over Body at level 1. And Electric would get Charged Armor.

[Zepp]

Defensive Toggles, by their nature, are designed like sieves. They are meant to be used with another two or three at the same time. As such you are going to need to merge the three-five toggles into one toggle with reasonable scaling. I've done a work-up of the first six sets, is this what you were thinking @Steampunkette and @Replacement

 

Alchemical Intrigue (Radiation Armor* + Atomic Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Beta Plus Decay	1	Toggle: Self +Res(++Tox/En, +Fire/Cold, Smash/Lethal, -Cold/Psi), +Res(Status Effects)
Electron Shackles	2	Ranged, Moderate DoT (Energy), Foe Immobilize
Heisenberg's Uncertainty	4	PBAoE Placate, +Res, Remove any status effects, can be cast while mezzed
Metabolic Acceleration	10	Toggle: Self +Recharge, + Special, +Regeneration, +Recovery, +Res(Hold, Stun, Sleep, Immob, End)
Ionic Binding	16	PBAoE, Minor DoT (Energy), Foe Immobilize
Ionize	20	Self +DMG, +ToHit
Beta Decay	28	Toggle: Foe, Taunt, -To Hit, -Defense, Self +Recharge
Radioactive Cloud	35	PBAoE, Foe Hold
Positronic Fist	38	Melee, Extreme Dmg(Energy/Smash), Foe -Def, Disorient, Special

 

Cloak & Dagger (Ninjitsu* + Ninja Training + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Ninja Senses	1	Toggle: Self +Def (Melee, Ranged, AoE) +Perception, +Res(-Def), +Res(Status Effects)
Immobilizing Dart	2	Ranged, Minor DoT (Toxic), Target Immobilize
Smoke Flash	4	PBAoE Foe Placate, Self +Def, -Res
Kuji-In Toh	10	Self +Regen, +Recovery, Res(Psionic, Fear)
Caltrops	16	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Lethal), Foe -Spd
Sting of the Wasp	20	Melee, Moderate Dmg(Lethal), Foe -Def
Shinobi	28	Toggle: Self +Def (Melee, Ranged, AoE), + Run Speed, +Jump, Stealth
The Lotus Drops	35	PBAoE Melee, Moderaat Dmg(Lethal), Foe -Def
Golden Dragonfly	38	Melee, Extreme DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockback, -Def

(Removed one defensive ability for Shinobi)

 

Cold War Intrigue (Ice Armor* + Ice Manipulation + Ice Control + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Cold Attitude	1	Toggle: Self +Def (Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Neg), +Res (++Cold, -Fire/Toxic), +Res(Status Effects)
Chill blain	2	Ranged, Moderate DoT (Cold), Foe Immobilize, -Spd, -Recharge
Cold Shoulder	4	Targeted AoE Placate, Self +Def, +Res, Foe -Spd, -Recharge
Frigid Protection	10	Toggle: PBAoE, Foe -Recharge, -Speed, -DMG, Self +Absorb over Time, +Recovery
Flash Freeze	16	Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Cold/Lethal), Foe Sleep
Build Up	20	Self +DMG, +To-Hit
Ice Patch	28	Location PBAoE, Foe Knockdown
Shiver	35	Ranged (Cone), Foe -Recharge, -SPD
Freezing Touch	38	Melee, Minor Dmg (Cold), Foe Hold

 

Electric Intrigue (Electric Armor* + Electricity Manipulation + Electric Control + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Charged Armor	1	Toggle: Self +Res(++En, +Smash/Lethal/Fire/Cold/Psi, Neg,), +Res(Status Effects)
Electric Fence	2	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Energy), Foe Immobilize, -End, -Recovery
Shock	4	PBAoE Placate, Self + Res, Foe -End, -Rec
Force of Thunder	10	PBAoE, Foe Disorient, Knockback, Self +Regeneration, +Recovery
Chain Fences	16	Ranged AoE, Minor DMG(Energy), Foe Immobilize, -End, -Fly
Lightning Field	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Energy), Foe -End
Build Up	28	Self +DMG, +To-Hit
Power Sink	35	PBAoE, Foe -End, -Recovery, Self +End
Shocking Grasp	38	Melee, High DoT(Energy), Foe Hold, -End, -Recovery

 

Energetic Intrigue (Energy Blast + Energy Aura* + Energy Manipulation + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Energy Stealth	1	Toggle: Self +Def(+Energy, Fire/Cold, -Smash/Lethal/Neg) , +Res(Energy,-Smash/Lethal/Neg/Tox), +Stealth, +Res(Status Effects)
Power Thrust	2	Melee, Minor Damage(Energy/Smashing), Foe Knockback
Pulse	4	PBAoE Placate, Self, +Def, +Res, Foe Disorient
Energize	10	Self End Discount, Heal, +Regen
Energy Torrent	16	Close (Cone), Moderate DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe Knockback
Build Up	20	Self +DMG, +To-Hit
Power Boost	28	Self +Special
Boost Range	35	Self Range Increase
Total Focus	38	Melee, Extreme DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe Disorient

 

Fiery Intrigue (Fiery Aura* + Fire Manipulation + Fire Control + Intrigue)

Power	Level	Effect
Embracing Flames	1	Toggle: Self +Res(++Fire, Smash/Lethal/En/Neg, Cold), +Res(Status Effects)
Ring of Fire	2	Ranged, Moderate DoT(Fire), Foe Immobilize
Spark	4	PBAoE Placate, -Res, -Def
Cauterizing Aura	10	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Fire), Self  +Heal Over Time, +Recovery
Fire Cages	16	Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DoT(Fire), Foe Immobilize
Fire Sword Circle	20	PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Fire/Lethal)
Build Up	28	Self +DMG, +To-Hit
Burn	35	Location (PBAoE), Moderate DoT(Fire), Self +Res(Immobilize)
Hot Feet	38	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Fire), Foe -SPD, Self -Fly

 

[Steampunkette]

I know they're designed like Sieves, @Zepp. It's why I argued that the AT should get at -least- 2 defensive powers with their sustain, more probably 3.

 

I don't think it's appropriate to give them a Single Toggle that essentially functions like an entire powerset. But giving them one toggle that applies to the most common types of damage (S/L) and one Elemental/Energy/Exotic seems appropriate. Or 2 of the 3 Vectors, but not the third. (Like Ninjitsu's Danger Sense)

 

Other than that change, I think these look smashing.

 

... lethal.

[Zepp]

My thought was that it would mimic the entire set, but at 1/3rd efficacy-ish. So rather than being extremely vulnerable to a huge chunk of enemies, and pretty strong against some, you would have moderate protection against most enemies...

[Replacement]

On 9/25/2019 at 7:55 PM, Zepp said:

Just a suggestion, add a mez-break (like Burn's Immobilization break, only for all mez, to the "Misdirection"/"Smoke Bomb" move). That would add a lot of survivability and make it much more of a get-out-of-jail-free-card... At lower levels solo you could engage with a minion, kill it, then use it to leave the group. Wait a short while and re-engage with a smaller group. At higher levels or in groups it would become a panic button. So basically it would be an AoE Placate with +Res (all mez effects).

Also, rather than replacing a defensive ability, it would probably be better to replace a melee attack (if you really want to keep the build up power).

 

 

This is actually where I've been leaning.  It means we could remove mez protection from the passive, which is janky.  This still gives us a scaling +stealth and +power boost, which gets sacrificed (maybe completely, maybe halving, maybe minus a static amount -- that's not something you can know without testing and tuning) to give mez resist/break free and placation.

On 9/28/2019 at 9:23 AM, Steampunkette said:

Tier 1: Defensive Toggle (12.75% Defense or 22.5% Resistance)

Tier 2: AoE Immobilize (Or Sleep for Psychic/Electric)

Tier 3: AoE Placate with short Defensive Boost (Lasts 30 seconds or so, Recharges in 45 seconds, ignores Recharge)

Tier 4: First Manipulation Power

Tier 5: Sustain from Manipulation

Tier 6: Manipulation

Tier 7: Manipulation

Tier 8: Manipulation

Tier 9: Manipulation or Control

 

Just using this as a point of reference and contrast, my current goals are:

T1: Defensive toggle OR placate

T2: Aoe Immobilize or similar (e.g. Dark gets a cone instead)

T3/4 (dependent on set): Defensive toggle OR placate

T4+: attempt to stay as true to Manipulation as possible.

 

Now, @Steampunkette has brought me around to the idea of the class needing "direct" survival built-in, but I continue to be resistant towards putting multiple powers into it, because I think it's important for them to rely on the thing that truly sets them apart from Blasters: Ninja Vanish!  But it does bother me that they will simply "not be covered" towards non-S/L stuff.  I wonder how awful it would be to give them, e.g. a special version of Charged Armor that has something like 19% to the main resists but 11% to other resists (leaving the 1-2 typical "holes).

 

I would like to note, here: tier 4 secondary is level 10.  This is not a long time to go for either the placate or the survival skill.  And this also means you could actually have different sets him them in different orders.  Hell, /Ice's Sustain move comes at level 10 instead of the standard 20, which means you'll have all sorts of fun figuring out the power order.

 

I'm also not adverse to simply bumping up the Mag of some of their control-y powers.  There are a few in the Manipulations that are Mag 2s that I think an Operative would make more sense to have at Mag 3 (or 75% chances bumped up to 100%, etc).  Minor tweaks that keep the power the same but the potency increased to help them survive.

 

One final Note: I'm pushing for Assaults giving Power Boost and Manipulations giving Build Up, because that's the least amount of work.  That could be swapped (because it honestly makes more sense) but the point is there's a clear delineation.

 

And I also still think Psionic/Psychic should be the last set ported.

 

[Replacement]

8 hours ago, Zepp said:

Heisenberg's Uncertainty 4 PBAoE Placate, +Res, Remove any status effects, can be cast while mezzed

I love you.

[Steampunkette]

Power Boost is now Power Up. A Combination of Power Boost and Build Up.

 

Could do Aim for the Manipulations?

[Replacement]

Power Build Up is actually closer to Aim already.  It's 50% ToHit (vs 17% in Dominator>Electric Assault's Build Up) and 34% damage (vs their Build Up's 68%)

[Zepp]

Also, I still think having an AoE immobilize-ish power at T2 is too powerful, especially since their T1 from Manipulation is a single target immobilize-ish power. Take a look at my six work-ups, and tell me if it doesn't make more sense to have the single-target Immob first and the multiple target Immob later. As per a previous post, I removed non-buff duplicate powers and then removed powers based on popularity. The powers that were not underlined could be swapped as the popularity may differ, and some sets may prefer more control over damage.

As far as the buff powers, maybe shift all the Assault Set buffs to Power Up, One issue is that Energy has Build Up & Power Boost. So changing Manipulation sets would be a tad more complicated. Also, Energy Manipulation may need a look-over, as the lack of Immob for KB is something that I think many players will likely want to avoid.

[Steampunkette]

9 hours ago, Zepp said:

Also, I still think having an AoE immobilize-ish power at T2 is too powerful, especially since their T1 from Manipulation is a single target immobilize-ish power. Take a look at my six work-ups, and tell me if it doesn't make more sense to have the single-target Immob first and the multiple target Immob later. As per a previous post, I removed non-buff duplicate powers and then removed powers based on popularity. The powers that were not underlined could be swapped as the popularity may differ, and some sets may prefer more control over damage.

As far as the buff powers, maybe shift all the Assault Set buffs to Power Up, One issue is that Energy has Build Up & Power Boost. So changing Manipulation sets would be a tad more complicated. Also, Energy Manipulation may need a look-over, as the lack of Immob for KB is something that I think many players will likely want to avoid.

Stacking.

 

That's kind of the core purpose of giving a powerset both a ST and AoE version of the same power. The AoE shuts down the Minions and Lts, the ST stacks with the AoE and shuts down the boss. We probably don't want that for the Operative, it's not a true 'control class'.

 

I think the intent behind going for the AoE Immobilize in the early Operative's design is to reduce incoming damage through movement mitigation on a largish group, forcing them into ranged attacks except whichever one you've singled out to pummel...

 

That said, I see your meaning in the relative power of the AoE Immobilize. So allow me to suggest this:

 

Give their immobilize a 5 target cap and Poison's Splash Area. An 8ft radius means enemies would need to be quite closely grouped to get them all, or that the immobilize only catches a portion of a given group, which should limit it's usefulness slightly while making it more worthwhile than cycling the t1 immob on a Blaster, but not -as- worthwhile as being able to stack it and stop bosses from moving.

[Zepp]

If the AoE comes before the ST immob, will people take the ST immob? It seems that it would be better to keep the Multi-Target Immob at reasonable coverage, but move it to a later tier than to have a weaker power in the T₂ slot and then move the ST immob later in the ladder where it is even more underwhelming...

 

I understand stacking more than most (I have a Martial Arts Stalktroller designed to stack ST  Disorient like crazy). That being said, it is not much of a wait either way.

[Steampunkette]

4 minutes ago, Zepp said:

If the AoE comes before the ST immob, will people take the ST immob? It seems that it would be better to keep the Multi-Target Immob at reasonable coverage, but move it to a later tier than to have a weaker power in the T₂ slot and then move the ST immob later in the ladder where it is even more underwhelming...

 

I understand stacking more than most (I have a Martial Arts Stalktroller designed to stack ST  Disorient like crazy). That being said, it is not much of a wait either way.

I don't think we should HAVE a ST immob. I think it should be AoE Only so that Boss-Stacking isn't something you can do with 2 button presses back to back.

 

But I do like the idea of the smaller AoE to show that it's not 'really' a controller type AT.

[Steampunkette]

... what if it wasn't "Rings of X" but a -single- ring?

 

Scale the Ring of Fire FX to the full 8ft AoE rather than having a separate rings around each target. So you put down an 8ft circle of flame (probably a Pseudopet spawned under your target) surrounding all your targets.

 

That would look -cool-... Especially with the Earth Control Immob...

[Zepp]

Electricity, Mental, & Plant may be hard to do without that T1 immobilize. I'll take a look at those three in a couple of hours and try to borrow some soft control or blast powers that fit those sets...

[Steampunkette]

6 minutes ago, Zepp said:

Electricity, Mental, & Plant may be hard to do without that T1 immobilize. I'll take a look at those three in a couple of hours and try to borrow some soft control or blast powers that fit those sets...

For Electric there's Cages, and Plants has Roots.

 

In my writeups I gave Psionic/Mental straight up Sleep to show that Psionic was a more "Control Oriented" secondary, kind of the inverse of my Ki secondary.