Lets talk crabber strategies!

[Neiska]

Hello everyone,

 

First off I am loving my Crabber. She can handle +4/8 very reliably! She doesn't really die or take much damage for the most part. I usually farm AE's on +3 or 4/8 difficulty. Overall I really like her, I love her AoE damage and debuffs, her team buffs, and her overall durability. But there are 2 things that she stuggles with, so I would like some imput on that please.

 

For referance, my Incarnates are Musclature Alpha (teir 3), Ion Judgement (teir 1), Warbot Lore (teir 3), Ageless Destiny (Teir 3), and Assualt Hybrid (Teir 3).

 

Issue #1 - Pets

Her pets just don't hold up at all. The only way I can really use them is by spawning all of them en masse when I am down to the last 4 or 5 mobs (usually boss mobs) to help me mop up. But if they are up at the start of a fight, they go down very fast. As in getting one attack or so off. I have tried using electric fences to keep enemies at range away from pets, but they always run into melee and end up getting creamed.

 

I do use all the defensive pet IOs - CtA Defense Aura, Soverign Right REsistance, Expedient Resist Aura, and Edict of the Master Defense bonus.

And yes, I have my +3 Incarnate level shifts.

 

Even with my toggles up, my pets have lackluster defenses -

 

Spiderlings - 40% smashing/lethal resistance, 31.27% Ranged, Melee, AOE, Smashing, Lethal Defense.

Disruptors - 30% Smashing/Lethal resistance, 31.27% Ranged, Melee, AOE, Smashing, Lethal Defense.

Mu Striker - 20% Smashing/Lethal resistance, 31.27% Ranged, Melee, AOE, Smashing, Lethal Defense.

 

Their damage is fairly good, and is nice when they are up, but they just go down so fast it's debatable if its worth keeping them up. But on +3/4 maps they just dont stand up at all.

 

Options I have thought of -

1a - I have thought about dropping the pets completely, and swapping them out for more single target/higher base value damage attacks, or possibly taking Aim and so on.

1b. - Possibly picking up a taunt ability, to try and tank for the pets and keep them up longer? I have never used taunt so I am unsure how effective this tactic would be.

1c - Am I possibly missing some more defensive options to make my pets tougher? As far as I can tell this is as strong as I can make them myself.

 

Issue #2 - Single target damage - It really feels no different between fighting 1 Boss mob and 4 Boss mobs, as they all seem to die around the same time. Unless my pets are there helping focus one down (they usually aren't), then killing boss level mobs can be quite tedious. 

 

I am stacking -res debuff from acheles heel and annihilation, and I use venom grenade as well as a part of my regular rotation. I dont have an interface incarnate yet but I am planning on getting more -res debuff there. 

 

As mentioned in another thread I am also using Gaussians chance for build up in my tactical training buff, (specifically leadership).

 

Options -

2a - As mentioned above, mabye dropping the pets and picking up attacks with higher damages to their base value, such as Frenzy, Arm lash, possibly Omega Maneuver or Aim as well. 

 

Other than swapping pets for attacks better at killing bosses, I'm not sure what else I can do about my single target damage. I have spoken to people and I been told thats sort of an AT feature - it has no real single target/boss killer moves. But even so I would at least like to make it better than chewing threw them at 30 damage per attack.

 

And thats it. I would love to somehow make my pets tough enough for +3/4, and increase my boss/single target DPS somehow. If I missed something by all means feel free to point it out.

 

Thoughts/options anyone?

 

Thanks bunches in advance!

[Omega-202]

Regarding your pets, you are missing options to make them tougher. I run Support Hybrid instead of Assault, which when up gives another 8% DEF for one option or 12% DEF that is doubled for pets (24% total).  That will halve the damage they take when its running.  Also, I run Rebirth Destiny for the AoE heal and regen which keeps the pets up very reliably and works to save idiot teammates.  I don't really see the need for Ageless as recharge is plentiful from set bonuses and Hasten.

 

The biggest thing for me though is active defense.  Clear the minions before they can hurt your minions.  Cycle Frag Grenade (with a KB-KD IO) so that everything stays on its butt.  Use Ragnarok's KD and Dominion of Arachnos's -Dam + Fear to keep enemies from attacking.  Use Omega Maneuver so your pets don't get targeted. 

 

Another option people suggest is using Hover.  I don't personally use it, but it works well from what I've seen.  If you Hover above your grounded pets, they don't get caught in the enemy AoEs targeting you.  

 

For single target damage, the answer is procs, procs and more procs.  Get a Gladiator's Toxic proc in your ranged attacks, which takes advantage of Venom Grenades bonus -Res to Toxic.  You can Frankenslot your ranged Crab attacks with some combination of 3 damage procs (Lady Grey and Shield Breaker from -Def, Gladiator's Javelin) and Achilles -Res and then slot Mu Lightning with Apocalypse + Gladiators procs.   Proc'd out Longfang/Burst + Mu Lightning/Gloom + Venom Grenade does pretty solid damage.  You're right that its kind of a fault of the AT that it's single target damage isn't great, but its really not that bad if you build to maximize it.  

 

For "other attacks with higher damage" I don't think Frenzy or Arm Lash are really "higher damage" because their animation time is so long.  Their DPA isn't actually all that good so they're not going to help with single target damage.  

 

I can safely say that once I got the hang of it, my pets die a lot less and there's literally nothing in the game that kills me.  Sure bosses can slow me down a bit, but as long as the minions are all gone, your pets do a solid job of focus firing.  

 

EDIT: Just re-read and saw that you're running AE farm missions.  Yeah, pets aren't going to survive there.  Crab pets aren't really meant for farm missions because you're going to be bleeding aggro on to them due to the aggro cap and there's not much you can do to stop that.  Save the farms for the Brutes.  Crabs shine in general content more (TF runs, Trials, etc.).

Edited September 26, 2019 by Omega-202

[Dropwing]

Could go for Destiny Barrier to make your pets tougher. That’s one of the few things that’s gonna help them survive in AE. 

[Neiska]

Thank you both for your imput and advice,

 

So for pet improvements I will try out -

Swapping Hybrid from Assualt core to Support core (For pet bonus effects),

Swapping Destiny from Ageless to Rebirth or Barrier - (im leaning toward barrier, as i have zero way to heal pets at the moment.)

I will have to swap my Alpha from Muscle to Cardio though, as i was using ageless mainly for the END recovery.

 

For damage improvements I will -

Add in proc onhit effects, frankenslotting them where necessary.

 

My current attack rotation is - Electric Fences - Venom Grenade - Suppression - Ball Lightning, repeat.

For single targets i focus on Channelgun, usually using it every other attack as it recharges very quickly, and hits the hardest for my single hitting power.

 

Will contemplate a rebuild adding in Omega Maneuvers for the taunt, possible taunt aura, and freg grenade (For the KD)

 

Did i miss anything else?

 

Thanks again!

[Omega-202]

For End issues, make sure you have the +end accolades and that you have all of the relevant +end IOs slotted (Performance shifter, miracle, numina, panacea).  Also, Support hybrid comes with an inherent end reduction to all powers, even when not activated, just like Assault has + damage and Melee has +regen.  You shouldnt need to swap off of Musculature.  I can run 10 toggles fine (including Beast Run) and only drain over prolonged fights.  With BR off, I literally can't drain my end by attacking.  

 

For attacks, Frag can replace Ball lightning or Fences well enough.  Less DPA and radius than BL, but the KD is solid and I put a Force Feedback in mine which gives a solid +Rechage Boost to get Omega and pets back up faster.  

[Dr Causality]

On 9/25/2019 at 6:08 PM, Omega-202 said:

EDIT: Just re-read and saw that you're running AE farm missions.  Yeah, pets aren't going to survive there.  Crab pets aren't really meant for farm missions because you're going to be bleeding aggro on to them due to the aggro cap and there's not much you can do to stop that.  Save the farms for the Brutes.  Crabs shine in general content more (TF runs, Trials, etc.).

 

Yeah any pet summoning build suffers in farms because each pet has their own aggro cap.  So in huge spawns you will take far more damage than a normal character. 

 

 

On 9/25/2019 at 6:08 PM, Omega-202 said:

I run Support Hybrid instead of Assault, which when up gives another 8% DEF for one option or 12% DEF that is doubled for pets (24% total).

 

 

This got me to....but Mid's shows incorrect values on the Hybrid Support Core Embodiment that doubles for pets.  It's actually 6% Def that doubles to 12% for Pets.  Mid's for some reason is showing the doubled version for your character.     Makes sense if you think about it, since they should not give you more Def AND double it for pets...   The 8% tier doesn't double...

 

But we're on the page build wise.  My final build Crab build on test settled on Hybrid Support and Destiny Rebirth, which together dramatically increase the sturdiness of the pets.   The other pet survival strategy I briefly toyed with was Control Radial Embodiment with the idea being that Stunned targets can't kill your pets.   That worked well for normal spawns, but hard targets like AVs and EBs still wiped out pets since you couldn't build up enough Mag for to stun them.   So I switched to Hybrid Support.    The other reason Hybrid Support is great is because your Lore Pets can do more damage than probably all the other pets combined.  So making the Lore pets survivable with Support and the Pet IO's let's you take the Dmg side of the Lore Tree.     I feel like the Lore pet sturdiness easily makes up for the loss of the DPS from not being able to have Assault.  And the -Endurance from Support solved my recovery issues, letting me take Destiny Rebirth.  

 

Another thing I did was drop a travel power for Spirit Ward.   With two Preventative Medicines it gives almost 20% Absorb to target on whatever pet is getting killed.    With the Recharge needed for perma pets Spirit Ward is up roughly every 20s. 

 

My thinking with Support and Spirit Ward is that they also made me more team friendly.   Spirit Ward may not do that much for your pets since they have low HP, but does a lot for a Tanker or Brute on your team...  

[Omega-202]

10 hours ago, Dr Causality said:

This got me to....but Mid's shows incorrect values on the Hybrid Support Core Embodiment that doubles for pets.  It's actually 6% Def that doubles to 12% for Pets.  Mid's for some reason is showing the doubled version for your character.     Makes sense if you think about it, since they should not give you more Def AND double it for pets...   The 8% tier doesn't double... 

I run the 8%, but I have to check in game on the other version.  I thought the trade off was that the 12% has a smaller radius and therefore was stronger and doubled for pets.  I might be wrong, but my recollection comes from the in game info window, not Mids.  

 

EDIT: I think you're right.  Paragonwiki backs what you said also.  And the 6%/12% version does have a smaller radius.  Seems like a big point in favor of the 8% version.  

 

Generally I also like Spirit Ward, but just not on my Crab.  My /Dark Corruptor gets a lot of use from it for the teammates that don't understand "stay near me to be healed" but my Crab has better things to do than play healer, besides popping Rebirth when needed.  

Edited September 30, 2019 by Omega-202

[Neiska]

Hello everyone,

 

Just wanted to post an update!

 

First off, I made the following changes -

I swapped my Hybrid Incarnate from Assualt to Support - It seems the support hybrid really is overall best, as not only do the pets benifit from the double effect itself, but it also increases your leadership and tacitcs toggles, for an overall higher net gain. (it feels like doubble dipping the chip).

 

Next, I tried both t3 powers of Rebirth and Barrier. Both seemed good, but Barrier seems overall more effective. The rebirth heal is nice, but if you want to full on stop your pets from getting thrashed, then barrier was working better for me.

 

Lastly, I did try to run this with various alpha slots - Agility, Musclature, and Cardio. Agility felt the the best overall, when mixed with both support hybrid and barrier destiny.

 

I would post my pets numbers but I dont have access to that right now. But what I will say is support alone made a huge difference, to the point where I can actually use pets in +4/8 missions, both in AE as well as normal missions. Sure, they still take damage and die now and then, but they dont immediately die either. Most of the time they are still up when the powers come off cooldown. The only time my pets seem to have difficulty now is if I end up engaging 2-3 groups at once on an AE mission, but in a normal mission they do just fine.

 

So thanks for the advice and guidance! I am still fine-tuning and tweaking, but its been a vast improvement.

[Omega-202]

52 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Lastly, I did try to run this with various alpha slots - Agility, Musclature, and Cardio. Agility felt the the best overall, when mixed with both support hybrid and barrier destiny.

Warning Re: Agility.  The recharge reduction aspect will lower your proc rate on attacks, which puts you back to square one on your single target DPS/boss killing problem.  That's why I try to avoid Agility and recharge enhancements in my proc builds, and instead focus on set bonuses and Hasten to compensate.  

[Dr Causality]

On 10/1/2019 at 4:58 AM, Omega-202 said:

Warning Re: Agility.  The recharge reduction aspect will lower your proc rate on attacks, which puts you back to square one on your single target DPS/boss killing problem.  That's why I try to avoid Agility and recharge enhancements in my proc builds, and instead focus on set bonuses and Hasten to compensate.  

This is an important consideration and it's also one advantage attacks from Epic pools like Leviathan have over your Inherent Crab powers.   Having a longer cooldown means they aren't as heavily punished for taking Agility.   

 

Consider Suppression with a Positrons (3.5 PPM).  Even with zero recharge it's only a 44% chance to proc, which drops to a 35% when you add the 33% rech from Agility.    Arctic Breath w/ it's longer 32s cooldown has a near cap 87.5% proc chance at zero rech.  And still has a 66.7% chance with Agility.   Arctic air w/ the Agility penalty is 20% better proc chance than a Suppression that skips Agility and doesn't slot any recharge.     Or consider Epic School of Sharks with 20sc ooodlown.   Even with the penalty for 33% rech from Agility it's still 48.5% chance to proc.   So 4% better than Suppression that didn't take Agility.    

 

If you really care about procing, the best powers to slot are Venom Grenade and the Epics.     Suppression and Frag Grenade have low enough cooldowns their proc chances are also low, not leaving much of any headroom for slotting recharge or taking Agility.   And Agility is great on a pet build since it boosts the defense of your leadership toggles and helps make the pets perma....