Help me decide - Mind/Psi vs Plant/Psi

[pretty_jesus]

Shooting for maximum control/lockdown with permadom. Damage is secondary. Thoughts? I would consider Plant/Thorny for theme.  Thanks!

[oedipus_tex]

Plant would be my choice.

[mbre2006]

Plant has far more choices than Mind Control. But for total lockdown Earth/ would be the better option. I would put fire or ice second. 

[Mercurias]

If you want total lockdown as in, all enemies are either held or both stunned and immobilized, you may want Earth/Psy or Fire/, and I would personally go with Fire/Psy. 

 

If you broaden that determination to include Confusion and Fear as well as pure Holds and Stunlock/Immob, I would go for Dark/Psy for pure variety or Plants/Psy for the highest damage and strongest Control power in the game for Dominators (Seeds of Confusion).

[MTeague]

I break it down this way

• Excellent choice of secondary.  Drain Psyche is amazing, both to heal you and so that you are your own AE -Regen debuffer.  And Psychic Shockwave is FUN once you slot it up.
• HOLDS:   
  • Both Mind and Plant have quick casting single target and AE holds, no edge to either primary there. 
  • Mind Control can take Teleknesis, which is a Toggle-Hold, and can be very nice for extra lockdown when levellling... but you already get Domination.  TK's nicer for a controller who can leverage TK+single-target holds to keep a boss locked down.  A Dom typically won't need this.  Still, it's an extra kind of hold, and is a minor point for Mind, I think.
• CONFUSES: 
  • Plant gets Seeds of Confusion early, and omg, it's arguably one of the better powers in the game.  Cone Confuse.  Immediately, you turn a swarm that would overrun you into a swarm too busy beating each other up to notice as you ping them to make sure you get exp.  and with Psychic Scream, you can tag the entire lot of them in one it.   I think this gives Plant a very decisive edge.  Seeds does require you to run into midrange, and you will likely take a few hits as you cast it.  But once it lands, nothings going to hurt you.  And then you can close to melee and Drain Psyche all of them. 
  • Mind gets a Non-Aggroing Single-Target Confuse that you can cast from signifcant range.  This is very nice for a controller who would need multiple casts to confuse a boss.  It's less important for you, since you could have Domination going and one cast is plenty enough on a boss.  But if you want to be a manipulator who works from the shadows, consider this.
  • Once you get Mass Confusion, then Mind is every bit as good with Confusing enemies as Plant.... except... the Recharge time on Mass Confusion is much higher than the recharge on Seeds of Confusion.  Mass Confuse can probably hit more targets reliably, and you can cast from far enough away you don't eat incoming firepower.  But Seeds is up EVERY fight.  I can't say that for Mass Confuse.
• SLEEPS: 
  • Mind's AE sleep is much better.  Lasts MUCH longer, castable from well outside aggro range, causes no aggro.  Mind is just better here.  I dont' think it outweighs the Confuse though.
  • Mind also gets a ST Sleep, where Plant does not.  Again, points for mind, just not sure it's enough points, for a Dom.
• PETS:  
  • Mind gets no regular pets.  You could argue every valid confuse target IS your pet after you confuse it, but.... not entirely the same animal.
  • Plant gets a full-time pet in Fly Trap
  • Plant gets a very strong quasi-pet in Carrion Creepers.  Which is also DAMN FUN to see an amazon jungle of vines going wild on a good-sized spawn.
• IMMOBS: 
  • Mind gets no Immobs. 
  • Plant gets a single target immob, and an AE immob.
  • Admittedly, I'm not a giant fan of Immobs.... an immobilized mob can still shoot you, debuff you, etc.  But they at least can't melee you IF you stay at range.... thing is though, ... with Psi Assault... you're going to be in melee range a lot.  So honestly not sure how much immob's are more than just an AE dot for you. 
• FEAR: 
  • Plant gets no Fear
  • Mind has a nice Cone Fear, that's up pretty often, and can do decent damage to a group depending how you slot it.
  • Fear is nice soft control if you don't hit them.  But your confused foes can hit them and won't think twice about it. 

For a Dom, I give it to Plant.

Edited November 15, 2019 by MTeague

[pretty_jesus]

9 hours ago, MTeague said:

I break it down this way

• Excellent choice of secondary.  Drain Psyche is amazing, both to heal you and so that you are your own AE -Regen debuffer.  And Psychic Shockwave is FUN once you slot it up.
• HOLDS:   
  • Both Mind and Plant have quick casting single target and AE holds, no edge to either primary there. 
  • Mind Control can take Teleknesis, which is a Toggle-Hold, and can be very nice for extra lockdown when levellling... but you already get Domination.  TK's nicer for a controller who can leverage TK+single-target holds to keep a boss locked down.  A Dom typically won't need this.  Still, it's an extra kind of hold, and is a minor point for Mind, I think.
• CONFUSES: 
  • Plant gets Seeds of Confusion early, and omg, it's arguably one of the better powers in the game.  Cone Confuse.  Immediately, you turn a swarm that would overrun you into a swarm too busy beating each other up to notice as you ping them to make sure you get exp.  and with Psychic Scream, you can tag the entire lot of them in one it.   I think this gives Plant a very decisive edge.  Seeds does require you to run into midrange, and you will likely take a few hits as you cast it.  But once it lands, nothings going to hurt you.  And then you can close to melee and Drain Psyche all of them. 
  • Mind gets a Non-Aggroing Single-Target Confuse that you can cast from signifcant range.  This is very nice for a controller who would need multiple casts to confuse a boss.  It's less important for you, since you could have Domination going and one cast is plenty enough on a boss.  But if you want to be a manipulator who works from the shadows, consider this.
  • Once you get Mass Confusion, then Mind is every bit as good with Confusing enemies as Plant.... except... the Recharge time on Mass Confusion is much higher than the recharge on Seeds of Confusion.  Mass Confuse can probably hit more targets reliably, and you can cast from far enough away you don't eat incoming firepower.  But Seeds is up EVERY fight.  I can't say that for Mass Confuse.
• SLEEPS: 
  • Mind's AE sleep is much better.  Lasts MUCH longer, castable from well outside aggro range, causes no aggro.  Mind is just better here.  I dont' think it outweighs the Confuse though.
  • Mind also gets a ST Sleep, where Plant does not.  Again, points for mind, just not sure it's enough points, for a Dom.
• PETS:  
  • Mind gets no regular pets.  You could argue every valid confuse target IS your pet after you confuse it, but.... not entirely the same animal.
  • Plant gets a full-time pet in Fly Trap
  • Plant gets a very strong quasi-pet in Carrion Creepers.  Which is also DAMN FUN to see an amazon jungle of vines going wild on a good-sized spawn.
• IMMOBS: 
  • Mind gets no Immobs. 
  • Plant gets a single target immob, and an AE immob.
  • Admittedly, I'm not a giant fan of Immobs.... an immobilized mob can still shoot you, debuff you, etc.  But they at least can't melee you IF you stay at range.... thing is though, ... with Psi Assault... you're going to be in melee range a lot.  So honestly not sure how much immob's are more than just an AE dot for you. 
• FEAR: 
  • Plant gets no Fear
  • Mind has a nice Cone Fear, that's up pretty often, and can do decent damage to a group depending how you slot it.
  • Fear is nice soft control if you don't hit them.  But your confused foes can hit them and won't think twice about it. 

For a Dom, I give it to Plant.

Awesome analysis thank you!

[pretty_jesus]

I was reading a thread recently that quoted “any dom with an AOE stun” as being great..which makes sense considering the lower cooldown compared to group hold (flash fires vs cinders). 
 

With this particular opener in mind, what would you pick (any primary, assume permadom and drain psyche)? How would Flashfires or Stalagmites compare to Seeds every fight/opener? 

[Scheme]

Stuns usually cause the mobs to scatter somewhat.  This is why a lot of times an AoE immobilize is required.  On the other hand, an AoE confuse like Seeds acts like a pseudo taunt since all of the mobs will gather to attack one another (especially with melee mobs).  This synergizes with AoE attacks and other effects like Drain Psyche which prefers enemies to be closely spaced.  As a result, I would say that Seeds of Confusion is the best AoE mez in the game.

[pretty_jesus]

This makes sense to group them up. I’ve noticed the wandering in the past with flash fire. Pretty settled on Plant although earth has my attention as well