Poison questions

[r0y]

Poison is a very fast and active set, great for fast-moving teams, as others have said.  I have it only on a defender, as it is noticeably weaker on other ATs, it's not a great set overall, but is very fun.  I paired it with Dark Blast for the self-heal as well as additional -ToHit / Immob.  I do have soft-capped S/L/E defenses, so with the -ToHit, I'm pretty survivable.

 

One of the biggest things I *hate* about Poison Trap is that you have to be ON THE GROUND to place it.  Like an Ouroboros portal, the bane of hover/flying toons everywhere.  I macro around this, but it just is stoopidumb, especially given that I can place a TRIP MINE on my Fire/Dev blaster who is hovering/flying.

FYI:  /macro PT "powexecname Poison Trap$$powexectoggleoff Hover" to place the trap, then I re-hover via keybind.  It's somewhat quick and seemless, but on such an active build, it's annoying as all get-out.

 

I love Poison/Dark on a defender, I've proc'd out Poison Trap, so it's VERY useful (probably would still prefer Traps' version) and I've proc'd out Blackstar (dark blast's nuke).

 

Lots of blasting with Tentacles and Night Fall, rarely need Life Drain to heal, but it's a decent attack (went 4 damage / 2 heal, just in case).  Build is a bit endurance intensive because you're firing off 2 cones and 2 AoE-ish™ debuffs all the time... that does start to out-pace recovery, especially when running the Venemous Gas toggle (which I do, and it's awesome).  I can solo most anything, given time... but who can't...

 

Overall, I would say for a fast-moving team, best Defender Debuff set is Trick Arrow, but Poison is up there.  Close.

 

Spoiler

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Ursyla-v4: Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom -- ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(7), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), AchHee-ResDeb%(15)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(9), Thn-Acc/Dmg(23), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 2: Weaken -- CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(3), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(13), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Moonbeam -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(19)
Level 6: Hover -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(9), Srn-EndRdx/Fly(23), Srn-Fly(40)
Level 8: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Antidote -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Afterburner -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Tenebrous Tentacles -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(17), PstBls-Dam%(17), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(34), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 18: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19), GldArm-3defTpProc(43)
Level 20: Night Fall -- SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(34), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), PstBls-Dam%(42)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29)
Level 26: Poison Trap -- Erd-%Dam(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(27), Obl-%Dam(27), UnbCns-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(46), NrnSht-Dam%(46)
Level 28: Alkaloid -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(29), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(31), Prv-Absorb%(31)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45)
Level 32: Venomous Gas -- UndDfn-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), UndDfn-DefDeb(33), UndDfn-DefDeb/EndRdx(33), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(37), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb(37)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Blackstar -- Erd-%Dam(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), Obl-%Dam(39), Arm-Dam%(39), CldSns-%Dam(40), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(40)
Level 41: Life Drain -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), HrmHln-Heal(48), HrmHln-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(A), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42), Pnc-Heal/+End(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(7)
------------

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by r0y

[Frosticus]

7 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

As I noted, the damage on Poison Trap isn't remotely close to an ultimate nuke. It's less than conventional nukes like Irradiate or Fireball that have much lower recharges. The hold also isn't very good - it's extremely short duration and the nature of the trap tends to scatter a spawn.

 

In terms of return on investment, it's actually quite low because the proc chance is based on the pseudo-pet (10 sec) rather than on the recharge (60 sec). When I was talking about Irradiate, I was being perfectly serious - Irradiate is a substantially better mechanism for damage because it can exploit the disparity between MRT and actual recharge (which Poison Trap can't do) while also having a large radius and strong damage.

 

If you've already decided to play Poison, then you might as well take it. But it's not a very strong selling point for the set.

Parse a few hundred logs in saturated and st environments and your opinion might change. Or not.

 

Apologies I've never heard someone call irradiate a "conventional nuke". It's just an  aoe attack. The only thing it nukes on its own is grey mobs. If you want to pick nits, PT actually has a higher base damage than fireball/irradiate, but no one would slot PT for damage, or typically say its base damage is strong.

 

Anyway, you've made it abundantly clear that poison isn't your cup of tea. It's not as straight forward as powerboosting farsight that's for sure. But it is without a doubt the best debuff set for fast teams and it is quirky and unique in a game that is progressively becoming homogenized. Understanding the mechanics of the set and how they interact with enemies is important, but not everyone takes the time and that's ok.

 

 

[Frosticus]

4 minutes ago, r0y said:

Overall, I would say for a fast-moving team, best Defender Debuff set is Trick Arrow, but Poison is up there.  Close.

TA is great in fast teams too. 

 

You can usually get noxious onto the group and start attacking a bit faster than disruption for a bit more debuffage, but disruption is a beauty of a big aoe. Who  doesn't love oil slick? Or proc'd acid arrow in the boss' face?

 

Well, next project will probably be TA haha.

[r0y]

1 minute ago, Frosticus said:

TA is great in fast teams too. 

 

You can usually get noxious onto the group and start attacking a bit faster than disruption for a bit more debuffage, but disruption is a beauty of a big aoe. Who  doesn't love oil slick? Or proc'd acid arrow in the boss' face?

 

Well, next project will probably be TA haha.

All true, Disruption Arrow is a bit slower on the recharge, and Poison's 2 debuffs are fast/applied often.  It's a toss-up, I suppose.

 

However, endurance use and speed of debuffs are all really quick with TA.  Short cast time, small end cost.  Well, I paired it with archery, so I'm not really attacking like I am with my Poison/Dark defender.  TA/Arch is definitely the low-attack, constant debuffs everywhere.  Like Poison, the -regen is not great; however, unlike poison, TA provides every debuff in the game, where poison has the ghetto ST heal and anti-mez and rez.  Meh for those, but if one needs a 1-slot (default) throw-away power, Poison has strong options (I usually take the anti-mez, but sometimes wish it was the rez).  I always take the heal for 6-slotted set bonus Preventive Medicine.

 

It was either the heal or the stun (Dark Pit) from the blast set, and it's only mag 2, and a bit meh.  At least the heal is "something" for the team, and a better set mule.

[Frosticus]

I really feel like -regen is overrated. The game has changed and dps has soared for everyone. GM's are still impacted quite a bit, but for most AV's even strong -regen is only like 100 dps, which isn't a lot.

 

So while I used to be of the mindset that TA and Poison needed to be buffed in that area, I don't really feel that way anymore. I'd much rather see that sets with very limited self protection be made to ensure they are hands down the best at their area of expertise. 

 

I've got a poison guide in the works, but ultimately the rez plays in to what poison tries to do well, which is keep the team clearing things quickly. If you are lucky when the buffs from the rez drop your "ally" will die again for another round of veng+rez haha. 

 

I think weaken from poison is also underrated. When I solo'd AV ghost widow her normal "one shot = you dead" hold was lasting about 7 seconds on me. Its the only character I've no insp'd her with that I didn't feel like I was relying on luck.  That power just legit shut her down. 

[The_Warpact]

11 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

 

 

I've got a poison guide in the works

I'd be interested in reading it.

[Frosticus]

3 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

I'd be interested in reading it.

It's at about 90%, just want to get some more data points on the interaction between weaken and some AV god modes.

And also working on a few GM's and "noteworthy" AV's and x8 TFs for the no insp/temp/lore list. 

 

Taking a bit of time though as it is a low defense build because defense hides what sets can actually do.

[Frosticus]

Me poison guide if it interests you:

 

[Hjarki]

One of the builds I've posted recently takes a different approach - centered around Venomous Gas - than those recommended in the Poison guide (although, obviously, I still take most of the 'good' powers).