Dark Blast Cone Modifications

[Parabola]

Dark Blast in both it's defender/corruptor and blaster incarnations relies on cones for it's aoe damage outside of the nuke. The fact that it has a pbaoe nuke is a little awkward given that cones force you to play at range but that isn't the subject of this suggestion. Cones come with something of a usage tax - they have target caps of 10 and they require a little lining up to use well. Dark Blast as a set adds to this issue by being a bit all over the place with the shape of the cones it has. I think the set could be made more user friendly with some tweaks to the ranges and arcs of the cones:

 

 

Night Fall (defender and corruptor)

Current: Range 60, Arc 20

Proposed: Range 60 (or 50), Arc 30

 

The uncontroversial suggestion will I believe be that Night Fall needs more arc. Buffing this to 30 degrees seems reasonable. If this absolutely has to come at the expense of range for balance reasons then lowering the range to 50 would bring the area covered by the cone back to something like what it currently is (using (pi*radius²)*arc/360 gives us (pi*60²)*20/360 = 628.3 and (pi*50²)*30/360 = 654.5). Even with this range reduction a 50/30 cone would I think be more useful than a 60/20 one.

 

 

Torrent (defender and corruptor)

Current: Range 80, Arc 30

Proposed: Range 60, Arc 30 (or 35/40)

 

Umbral Torrent (blaster)

Current: Range 80, Arc 30

Proposed: Range 60, Arc 30 (or 35/40)

 

Torrent and Umbral Torrent are exactly the same shape and my issue with them both is the same so I have lumped them together. This may be a harder sell but my thinking is as follows:

 

When you are using multiple cones in combat your effective range to the mobs is set by your shortest cone. You are already having to maneuver in order to line up the cones to your best advantage but if you are anything like me that doesn't include moving back and forward depending on the range of each cone you are about to use. I tend to sit at around the maximum range of my shortest cone and fire everything off from there. As things stand Tenebrous Tentacles is setting this distance at an unmodified range of 40. Torrent and Umbral Torrent blast way past this range and I have a habit of hitting unaggroed mobs behind those currently being fought (particularly with global +range bonuses). I therefore find the extra range these powers have to be a handicap rather than an advantage.

 

So, I believe reducing the range of Torrent and Umbral Torrent would actually be a buff rather than a nerf. If the loss of affected area is too much to stomach then we could also look at widening the arc a little to compensate. The current area is a massive 1675.5 (no idea what these units are!). Using range 60/arc 30 would give 942.5, range 60/arc 35 would give 1099.5, and range 60/arc 40 would give 1256.6. These numbers are smaller (quite a bit in some cases) but as discussed I don't find the end part of the range 80 cone to be all that useful anyway. I'd be happy enough to reduce the range and simply lose the extra area but would be delighted with an arc increase to either 35 or 40 degrees.

 

 

Tenebrous Tentacles (defender, corruptor and blaster)

Current: Range 40, Arc 40

Proposed: Range 40 (or 50), Arc 40

 

I don't think Tenebrous Tentacles really needs changes. Having said which more range would always be welcome to line it up better with the other cones in the set. If this could be extended to 50 then that would set a new 'base range of engagement' to launch the other cones from (I'm assuming that nearly every dark blast player regardless of AT takes this power). This extension would also make it easier to equalise the lengths of the cones using range enhancement - at ED cap it is possible to extend a 40 power to just over 60 but it is generally impractical alongside other slotting priorities, 50 to 60 is much easier. I'm not sure I'd want to see it's arc reduced though so if that would be the only option I'd probably prefer to leave it where it is (at 40/40 its area is 558.5, to get a similar area at range 50 the arc would have to fall below 30).

 

So those are my thoughts. Thanks for reading, I welcome any comments.

[Parabola]

No comments? Not even a /jranger?!

 

The tl;dr is Night Fall is too narrow, Torrent and Umbral Torrent are too long, and Tenebrous Tentacles is probably fine but if it could be longer that would be great.

[Uun]

I don't really disagree with any of your points, however, I've really been enjoying abusing the hell out of Umbral Torrent. I've got a bunch of +range slotted (so 80 is enhanced to 103 feet) plus a KB>KD. Point it at a group and they all flop. Not sure I could hit so many if I had to fire it from closer in.

[ZeeHero]

NO CONE should -ever- have a width of less than 45 degrees. NEVER. less than 45 degrees you end up with a "Cone" which hits 2-3 targets maximum when fired into a tighly packed group.

 

Buff any cone below 45 degrees to at least 45 degrees, cones above t3 should be 50+ degrees, preferably 70-80 degrees if not very long ranged.

[SeraphimKensai]

With only the modest increases to the cones angular width you suggest, I personally don't think you need to give up range.

[Uun]

I took another look at this. I think the metric you want to compare is not the area within the cone, but the chord length (straight line) or arc length (curved line) at the end of the cone. This tells you how wide an area the cone will hit at maximum range. This is what we currently have:

 

	Radius	Arc	Chord Length	Arc Length
Torrent/Umbral Torrent	80	30	41.41	41.89
Tenebrous Tentacles	40	40	27.36	27.93
Night Fall	60	20	20.84	20.94

 

With respect to Torrent and Umbral Torrent, if you reduce the radius from 80 to 60 feet without increasing the arc, you're nerfing the power by reducing the width from 41 to 31 feet. To maintain roughly the same width at a 60 foot radius, you need to increase the arc to 40 degrees. Here's what you end up with at various combinations of radius/arc:

 

Radius	Arc	Chord Length	Arc Length
40	50	33.81	34.91
40	60	40.00	41.89
50	40	34.20	34.91
50	45	38.27	39.27
50	50	42.26	43.63
60	30	31.06	31.42
60	35	36.09	36.65
60	40	41.04	41.89

 

My recommendations would be:

Torrent/Umbral Torrent:  Leave alone OR reduce radius to 60 feet and increase arc to 40 degrees

Tenebrous Tentacles:  Increase radius to 50 feet and increase arc to 45 or 50 degrees OR increase radius to 60 feet and leave arc at 40 degrees

Night Fall:  Maintain radius at 60 feet, increase arc to 40 degrees

 

[Parabola]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

I took another look at this. I think the metric you want to compare is not the area within the cone, but the chord length (straight line) or arc length (curved line) at the end of the cone. This tells you how wide an area the cone will hit at maximum range.

You beat me to it, I had a similar thought. And you saved me from having to do more maths so I thank you!

 

3 hours ago, Uun said:

With respect to Torrent and Umbral Torrent, if you reduce the radius from 80 to 60 feet without increasing the arc, you're nerfing the power by reducing the width from 41 to 31 feet. To maintain roughly the same width at a 60 foot radius, you need to increase the arc to 40 degrees.

My issue with Torrent and Umbral Torrent is that they don't exist in a vacuum, they are used alongside at least one much shorter cone in Tenebrous Tentacles. That 41 foot of width is only available at the full 80 foot range which would require engaging the spawn from so far away TT likely wouldn't hit it at all. It is much more likely that most engagements will be conducted from the range that puts the back of the spawn at about 40 feet away. Then the Torrents are blasting out the back of the spawn and the extra width and area are wasted. Worse than that they have a habit of randomly hitting extra mobs behind the current pack.

 

So I really feel that for the overall good of the set (in either form) the ranges of the cones should be brought closer together. I certainly agree though that some compensation in terms of the arcs would be nice, but not entirely vital (other than Night Fall which flat out needs a buff).

 

3 hours ago, Uun said:

My recommendations would be:

Torrent/Umbral Torrent:  Leave alone OR reduce radius to 60 feet and increase arc to 40 degrees

Tenebrous Tentacles:  Increase radius to 50 feet and increase arc to 45 or 50 degrees OR increase radius to 60 feet and leave arc at 40 degrees

Night Fall:  Maintain radius at 60 feet, increase arc to 40 degrees

These would be great but may be asking for a little much? I was trying to keep the changes roughly 'balance neutral', feeling that making Dark Blast a bit more user friendly would be enough of a buff on it's own (again with the exception of Night Fall).

[Uun]

37 minutes ago, parabola said:

These would be great but may be asking for a little much? I was trying to keep the changes roughly 'balance neutral', feeling that making Dark Blast a bit more user friendly would be enough of a buff on it's own (again with the exception of Night Fall).

Reducing Umbral Torrent by 20 feet and increasing TT by 10-20 feet isn't balance neutral? If TT is going to stay at a 40-foot radius, its damage should be buffed. Frost Breath, Fire Breath, Electron Haze, Flamethrower and Steam Spray all do substantially more damage at a 40 foot radius.  

[Parabola]

26 minutes ago, Uun said:

Reducing Umbral Torrent by 20 feet and increasing TT by 10-20 feet isn't balance neutral? If TT is going to stay at a 40-foot radius, its damage should be buffed. Frost Breath, Fire Breath, Electron Haze, Flamethrower and Steam Spray all do substantially more damage at a 40 foot radius.  

TT does immobilize though making it a little difficult to directly balance against those other powers. Dark Blast as a whole trades damage for utility (although it procs very well). The overall question of balance would depend on how the devs see the performance of the set. I am just hoping to convince them that it could be a bit easier to use.

[MTeague]

I'd just like Night Fall's animation to be one single wave of darkness moving forward, not shooting multiple "dark bullets".