Elec/Dark/Soul -- PBAoE Tankmage? Or poor synergy?

[lightpunch]

Hi folks,

 

I'm trying to come up with a character who I want to invest a ton of INF into -- some of my other favorites, like my fire/cold troller, dark/temp blaster, spines/bio brute, I'm not sure if they'd benefit enough from a huge investment that I'd notice and appreciate it that much. That's brought me to Dominators.

 

If I had a home AT, it'd be Controllers, so I'm familiar with the primaries, but the secondaries and general playstyle of Doms are somewhat unfamiliar to me. I've been reading through the forum and learning a lot, but I haven't seen much written about an elec/dark dom.

 

To a Dominator-novice's eyes, the combo to me seems like it could be a defensive, melee-range, PBAoE powerhouse, especially when paired with /soul. But I've barely seen any mention of it when searching the forums. So is there any particular flaw in the synergy between these sets that I'm missing? Does elec's endurance drain make dark's -tohit less useful to the point that I'd be better off going with something else? Is loading up on PBAoEs and AoEs (and building for melee defense after recharge) with a build like this a bad plan?

 

In general, what're people's thoughts on the potential of a elec/dark/soul Dom?

[Coyote]

It should be fine. Not the best option, because if you're going PBAoE, you have better options. But it's not bad, either.

 

/Dark has a good PBAoE that helps keep you safe, but...

/Earth has 3 AoEs usable in melee range. They do a much better job in keeping you safe because they will regularly knock mobs down. I use Ele/Earth and between Fissure, Tremor, and Jolting Chain, mobs are bouncing up and down all the time. Definitely better mitigation than the -ToHit, and you can put the +Recharge IO in all three attacks, also.

/Martial does about the same thing... it has a PBAoE and a melee cone, which is less than /Earth but with faster animations and better knockdown chances. Instead of Mud Pots for extra AoE damage, it has Trick Shot... Mud Pots are better up close, but Trick Shot can be used at range.

/Thorns has a PBAoE and a melee cone like /Martial, and Caltrops for more AoE damage. It only gets knockdown from the melee cone, so while the damage is good the mitigation isn't as good as /Earth or /Martial

/Energy has only one PBAoE like /Dark, but if you use Total Focus before it, it does almost double normal PBAoE damage, so it's really equivalent to having two PBAoEs. Mitigation is weak, though, with just a minor chance to Stun. Although, you can put two different "chance to stun" procs plus the Fiery Orb proc in the AoE Immob, so you can have a lot of different "chance to stun" effects that can add up to a lot of Stunning. And you can add another one in Jolting Chain also (as well as a Hold proc), if you want to go that way.

 

All in all, Electric works quite well in melee range, and it provides a lot of defense between an AoE Confuse plus all the End Drain. For the secondary, I would look more at which does more damage when in melee range rather than the defensive aspects, so I would go with one of the other options unless the theme just requires /Dark.

[lightpunch]

Hm so all of those are considered better choices if I'm looking for at PBAoE. They are more difficult to make work with the theme I had in mind, but I'll think it over, maybe a new theme will come to me. My altitis has been interrupted by creator's block lately so I have this itch to scratch and can't quite find a new character I want, and I was hoping elec/dark was as good as it seemed to me.

I was planning to skip cones for a melee-centric elec/ build. Would you not recommend that? I have a couple characters (the brute and blaster) mentioned above that I currently play hopscotch with, getting out of and into melee range to make use of all their powers, and while it's fine for them, I'm not really looking for a third character that has me hopping around a lot. 

And is soul considered a good route for an PBAoE-centric Dom? The drain/consumption/obliteration trio seemed particularly appealing, but maybe its not as good as it seems.

[Coyote]

Soul is a good choice. Soul Drain works better if you're generally playing in melee. Obliteration works both at range and in melee so it will fit into a melee-oriented playstyle.

Dark Consumption is eminently skippable. 6 minute base recharge makes it really not worth slotting, but without slotting it will be up too rarely to even remember using it.

 

Skipping cones is definitely part of playing melee-centric. In fact, /Dark is the only set mentioned that uses a cone, and skipping it is why I said that /Dark has only one AoE. Well, actually, so does /Thorns, but I didn't mention that. Although, the cone from Thorns is the best for a melee-oriented Dom, since it's short-ranged with a wide angle (30'range, 90-degree cone), so you don't have to back up far to use it. Or jump up with Combat Jumping and fling downwards (though that only works outside or in a room with a tall ceiling.).

[Camel]

30 minutes ago, lightpunch said:

Hm so all of those are considered better choices if I'm looking for at PBAoE. They are more difficult to make work with the theme I had in mind, but I'll think it over, maybe a new theme will come to me. My altitis has been interrupted by creator's block lately so I have this itch to scratch and can't quite find a new character I want, and I was hoping elec/dark was as good as it seemed to me.

I was planning to skip cones for a melee-centric elec/ build. Would you not recommend that? I have a couple characters (the brute and blaster) mentioned above that I currently play hopscotch with, getting out of and into melee range to make use of all their powers, and while it's fine for them, I'm not really looking for a third character that has me hopping around a lot. 

And is soul considered a good route for an PBAoE-centric Dom? The drain/consumption/obliteration trio seemed particularly appealing, but maybe its not as good as it seems.

If you have a theme in mind, do it. Some of my favorite characters are the ones you would consider “weaker.” Dark/Elec/Soul would be great! It would be pretty slot heavy, you could focus entirely on Melee, but taking Zapp might be worth it, you can have 4 pets up at all times with Haunts, Umbral Beast and Voltaic Sentinel. The only gripe I’d have with this pairing is the AoE immobilize is a cone, but you can easily work around that. I say go for it. The stun can take 5 damage procs and with a +5 Acc/Stun/Rchg becomes a mini nuke that can also shut down entire mobs. Seems like a good pairing to me.

[lightpunch]

22 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Soul is a good choice. Soul Drain works better if you're generally playing in melee. Obliteration works both at range and in melee so it will fit into a melee-oriented playstyle.

Dark Consumption is eminently skippable. 6 minute base recharge makes it really not worth slotting, but without slotting it will be up too rarely to even remember using it.

All good to know, thank you. Skipping consumption would free up some slots for me, as this build seems to be very slot-heavy.

 

7 minutes ago, Camel said:

If you have a theme in mind, do it. Some of my favorite characters are the ones you would consider “weaker.”

I feel this way too, but particularly for this concept, I want something that feels powerful (elec control with its bzzt bzzt sounds and old graphics already kinda violates this but I'm really into the melee-range, end drain, confuse, and knockdown in it). And I just want something that's going to be great/the best at what I want this character to do. But, my concept is probably going to have to shift, given the middling reviews of dark assault. I'll play around in character creator and see what comes out, might have to move on to a different concept entirely and come back to this when I'm less locked into a specific idea.

 

10 minutes ago, Camel said:

Dark/Elec/Soul would be great!

Hah maybe, but I already have a dark controller and was looking to diversify my control sets. This was originally about elec/dark/soul 😛 (not sure if you were intentionally suggesting a flip on the elec/dark combo or if you misread the build).

[Hjarki]

Darkness isn't a particular good set AoE-wise.

 

The easiest way to get a rough impression of the non-Cone AoE capabilities of sets is to set your Mid's to 'dps' and start looking at AoE:

• Dark (Engulfing Darkness) = 3.74
• Earth (Tremor = 2.96) + (Fissure = 2.86) =  5.82; also receives Mud Pots (3.98) that doesn't receive benefits from recharge. Note that KB AE (these and Thunder Strike) are unusually potent due to their ability to slot Force Feedback procs.
• Electricity (Thunder Strike = 9.54)
• Energy (Whirling Hands = 2.84)
• Fire (Combustion = 3.76)
• Ice (Ice Sword Circle = 2.93)
• Martial (Dragon's Tail = 3.11) + (Caltrops = 2.9) = 5.01; also receives Trick Shot (4.34) which has a smaller target cap.
• Psionic (Psychic Shockwave = 3.2)
• Radiation (Atom Smasher = 3.6)
• Savage (Rending Flurry = 5.43); in practice, this will be much larger due to Feral mechanics.
• Thorny (Thorn Burst = 3.43) + (Thorntrops = 2.73) = 6.16; Location AE fields can cause scatter (same as Caltrops)

So while Dark isn't the worst AE set, it isn't particularly good either.

 

In terms of Epic/Patron pools, Soul is... ok, I guess.

 

Soul Drain isn't nearly as good for Dominators as it is for Defenders/Corruptors or melee because it has double the recharge. So instead of getting +100% over time like a Tanker would, you're getting more like +30% over time. More importantly, Soul Mastery offers a resist rather than a defense toggle - which makes building respectable defenses much, much more difficult.

 

Contrast with Ice Mastery:

• Hibernate. This isn't all that great on other AT. On a Dominator, you can lock down a spawn and then solve all your endurance/health problems.
• Sleet. This is a perma-able -30% resist field, which is the biggest damage multiplier a Dominator can get (it also multiplies damage from other players).
• Hoarfrost. More maximum hit points and toxic resist.
• Frozen Armor. Smash/Lethal Resist and a bit of Cold/Fire Resist.
• Ice Storm. Not as good as it is on other AT, it's still one of the highest dps AE in any of the Epic/Patron pools.

In terms of Electric Control, I think it gets a lot of hate it doesn't deserve. From my perspective, it's the most powerful pure control set in the game. Static Field is the 'only Sleep that matters' because it's got all the advantages of Sleep and removes (most of) the disadvantages due to its pulsing nature. Synaptic Overload has less of an immediate thrill than Seeds or Mass Confusion, but it has a lower cooldown and doesn't cause threat. Couple this with Electric's ability to zero out end bars - and keep them zero'd - and it's tough to see any set competing with it for sheer shutdown potential.

 

That being said, it doesn't have any particularly exceptional damage potential. You can play some games with procs in Jolting Chain, but damage is why you have an Assault set.

 

Electric also has another advantage most people don't consider: self-healing. Electric can slot both Power Transfer and Call of the Sandman (this is also true of Electric Assault). 

 

[Camel]

18 hours ago, lightpunch said:

All good to know, thank you. Skipping consumption would free up some slots for me, as this build seems to be very slot-heavy.

 

I feel this way too, but particularly for this concept, I want something that feels powerful (elec control with its bzzt bzzt sounds and old graphics already kinda violates this but I'm really into the melee-range, end drain, confuse, and knockdown in it). And I just want something that's going to be great/the best at what I want this character to do. But, my concept is probably going to have to shift, given the middling reviews of dark assault. I'll play around in character creator and see what comes out, might have to move on to a different concept entirely and come back to this when I'm less locked into a specific idea.

 

Hah maybe, but I already have a dark controller and was looking to diversify my control sets. This was originally about elec/dark/soul 😛 (not sure if you were intentionally suggesting a flip on the elec/dark combo or if you misread the build).

I read it wrong, totally read it wrong. 😅 That being said, I would still give Elec/Dark/Soul a shot if you’re really digging it for thematic reasons. I recently rolled an Elec/Elec Controller to 50 and had a lot of fun with Electric. I skipped the AoE hold though, I mostly always do on Controllers since the builds end up being so tight. Electrifying Fences + Jolting Chain + Engulfing Darkness + Dark Obliteration isn’t anything to scoff at, throw in a few procs and a fully saturated Soul Drain and.... ta-dah! You could maybe even try to sneak in Unleash Potential since you can buff it sky high with Dark Assaults power boost-esque  power, which will also boost the endurance drain aspect of Electric and your to-hit debuffs from Dark. I have a hard time seeing you not having fun with this combo. The self heal in Dark and the ability to slot multiple heal procs in Electrics powers would make you pretty Tanky. Even if you didn’t soft-cap S/L defense, Melee or Ranged. I’m sure you could get close to 32.5% defense, which paired with your controls and -to-hit debuffs should be more than enough in most cases and would only require 1 small defense inspiration to reach 45%.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Camel

[Camel]

Don’t let what’s on paper fool you into believing certain sets aren’t good. Numbers and DPS data don’t lie, sure. But they don’t take into account the fun factor OR how certain situations can make some pairings become evidently more powerful or just as powerful as others. I just recently mained and completed a Fire/Energy Tank, if you look through the forums you’ll see tons of people digging on the set. It’s unplayable, it does no damage, it can’t Tank anything, etc.. meanwhile, I’m 2 shotting +4 bosses as a Tank, Tanking +4 DA arc missions, Lord Recluse, +4 ITF spawns and even +4 psi damage mobs and absolutely destroying the TF commander TFs (on the Citadel TF I reached damage cap when fighting Vandal, my Energy Transfer + Burn + Bone Smasher all buffed by Fiery Embrace did around 20% of his HP, no exaggeration) The most fun you’ve ever had could be on the weakest build you’ve ever made, and the least fun you’ve ever had could be on the best. 

[VV]

Psh, don't listen to the naysayers. Do what you want. Dom is the dom of ATs, so whatever combo you put together is going to put all your teammates to shame.