Water Blast combos... Give me the mechanics

[Shred Monkey]

I think I understand most of how these work.  With each increasing level of the attack does more damage or has a shorter activation time, or does more heal...etc.... then at level 3 the combo consumers do something special.

 

My observation is that when use the 3rd level combo there appears to be a time limit on how soon that combo can be used again... you can use a different one as soon as charged, but not that same one.  Does anyone know the minimum time you have to wait before repeating the same combo?  (I'm guessing 5 seconds, like dual blades, but I'd hate to plan a whole build based on that and then find out it's 10 seconds).

 

Also, if anyone just has a link to full descriptions of mechanics with numbers of these powers, that'd be great.

[Luminara]

The Mechanics.  Also, Mike.

 

 

Presuming the attacks are coded in the same way as Staff Melee, there should be no requirement beyond having activated the necessary combo level, and no additional restrictions.  Again, that's based on the presumption that they recycled the combo code into multiple sets (which was historically their approach, and makes sense from a design perspective).

 

Bear in mind, though, my experience with combos is limited to Staff Melee, which only has two attacks offering different effects when combo level 3 is achieved, and animation times at or above 2 seconds (i include Arcanatime in all of my attack chain calculations) for all but the tier 1 attack (which i don't have), so I can't assemble a sub-5s attack chain to test for you.  I can say with absolute certainty that there's no unmentioned, invisible 10s cooldown timer on Staff Melee combos, as I frequently activate CL3 at the 5.3s mark and have never run into a timer or restriction.

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Also, if anyone just has a link to full descriptions of mechanics with numbers of these powers, that'd be great.

 

No description, but in Mids', right-click the relevant power to lock it, then toggle Combo Level 3 while watching the Info panel.  It'll display damage, endurance cost, animation time changes, etc. when the combo is active.  The Effects panel shows other effects, like the mag 3 stun becoming present in Geyser.

[catsi563]

As i understand it you have two current combo systems

 

theres the build a combo system that Street justice  and Staff  water blaster uses where you build a combo level up and then Finish it

 

and the 1-2 =3 4 or 5 combo which Dual Blades and savage melee uses  where you use 1 then 2 and on three use  a big hitter

 

the two may seem similar but there are minor differences

 

for example water has 3-4 moves which build Tidal pressure the combo mechanic. once you hit 2-3 of that you activate a finisher move which consumes all stacks and provides an additional benefit depending on the level such as additional smashing or fire damage

 

SJ uses a similar system where you build up combo levels 1-3 with finish moves consuming them

 

Dual blades uses the other variant where you dont build up combo levels but you do a combination of moves so you use move 1 then move #2 which lets you activat Combo # 3 the big smackaroo or you hit move 1 and Move 4 which allows you to combo #5 the slightly bigger smackdown

 

so in each case theres a similar base mechanic of build up to execution once you learn each one youre in good shape

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by catsi563

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

The Mechanics.  Also, Mike.

 

 

Presuming the attacks are coded in the same way as Staff Melee, there should be no requirement beyond having activated the necessary combo level, and no additional restrictions.  Again, that's based on the presumption that they recycled the combo code into multiple sets (which was historically their approach, and makes sense from a design perspective).

 

Bear in mind, though, my experience with combos is limited to Staff Melee, which only has two attacks offering different effects when combo level 3 is achieved, and animation times at or above 2 seconds (i include Arcanatime in all of my attack chain calculations) for all but the tier 1 attack (which i don't have), so I can't assemble a sub-5s attack chain to test for you.  I can say with absolute certainty that there's no unmentioned, invisible 10s cooldown timer on Staff Melee combos, as I frequently activate CL3 at the 5.3s mark and have never run into a timer or restriction.

What I'm seeing with water is this:

 

aqua bolt (0) > dehydrate (1) > aqua bolt (2) > waterjet (3) > aqua bolt (0) > dehydrate (1) > aqua bolt (2) .....  at this point I could click waterjet again, but it doesn't have an orange circle, HOWEVER, Dehydrate and Water Burst do have orange circles.  So I have 3 stacks of tidal focus, but the enhanced waterjet isn't an option.

 

The sum of aquabolt>dehydrate>aquabolt is 4.488 so it's less that 5 between uses of level 3 water jet, which makes me think that's where the issue is.

 

I'm gonna do some more testing.   I can put hydro blast in there and be just over 5 seconds.  I'll post here if I learn something.

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Shred Monkey

[Shred Monkey]

Online testing now.  I'm seeing that this is not a tidal power issue, but an issue specific to water jet.  I used build-up to recharge the 3 tidal power stacks instantly after using enhanced water jet and it shows circles around dehydrate and water burst, not water jet.  but if I wait a few seconds and a circle shows up around water jet.   

 

If i do the same... use buildup after enhanced dehydrate,  it shows the circle around dehydrate with no delay.

 

My guess is that it has something to do with the instant cooldown locking out water jet from being enhanced for a short period of time.

[Chris24601]

Yeah, water jet has a 10 second cooldown on its 3 stacks Tidal Forces use. Double Use every 10 seconds is already quite OP... add a third with their aim power also giving three stacks it’d be over the top.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

Online testing now.  I'm seeing that this is not a tidal power issue, but an issue specific to water jet.  I used build-up to recharge the 3 tidal power stacks instantly after using enhanced water jet and it shows circles around dehydrate and water burst, not water jet.  but if I wait a few seconds and a circle shows up around water jet.   

 

If i do the same... use buildup after enhanced dehydrate,  it shows the circle around dehydrate with no delay.

 

My guess is that it has something to do with the instant cooldown locking out water jet from being enhanced for a short period of time.

 

Can't log in to check the in-game description, but the text in Mids' states:

 

"You spray a concentrated torrent of water toward your target that causes High Cold and Smashing damage as well as reducing your target's movement speed.  If you have 2 or less Tidal Power, you will gain a stack of Tidal Power.  If you have 3 Tidal Power and you activate this power, it will have an enhanced effect causing Water Jet to cast slightly faster and immediately reset the recharge of Water Jet.  Water Jet's enhanced effect can be used once every 15 seconds."

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

  Water Jet's enhanced effect can be used once every 15 seconds."

well... that explains it.   I don't think it's 15 seconds, though.... seems shorter.

 

OK... checked in game, the text info says can be used once every 8 seconds.   That's what I was looking for.

 

.... just to further confirm... I respec'd to a attack chain that takes 9.3 seconds.... then circle around water jet comes up just in time to use it.  8 seconds seems right.  I suspect that does not include the activation time of the enhanced water jet power itself.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Shred Monkey