Aggro Cap Limits, Hit Chance Limit and Hammidon

[iceman2036]

     So I've been thinking about this for a few days now after messing around on a server the removed the aggro cap limits, and I am enjoying that immensely. I understand why the Paragon devs did it while live, and I didn't like it then. As a Tank, not being the focus of attention for the entire encounter is rather annoying. Knowing that it doesn't matter what I do, people are going to die because I can't get aggro on everything. So I'm asking for some feedback on this and wondering what other people think.

     The other topic I wanted to talk about was the 5% chance to miss the target. I don't understand the reasoning behind this. It makes accuracy, to-hit bonuses, and defense debuffs completely useless after a certain point. A wide variety of powers are going unused in PvE because there is no point in using them. I was thinking we could remove this and instead add something to NPC's like an inherent chance to dodge attacks that increases with minion rank and level and villain groups that have natural defensive abilities, like the crey SR bosses, would just add to that natural dodge chance.

     An example of this could be:

Player vs NPC - 100% chance to hit (this would drop depending on the rank of the minion. EX. minion has 75% chance to dodge, it would drop your chance to hit to 25%)

+0 Minion - 75% chance to dodge

+0 Leutenant - 85%

+0 Boss - 95%

+0 Elite boss - 105%

+0 Arch Villain - 155% (I think AV's are +5 to their level. I can't remember)

Giant Monsters - 205% (I don't think GM's have a level, but they are supposed to be the toughest enemies in the game)

Hammidon - 255% (Strongest enemy in the game according the the Paragon Devs. I could be wrong about that, please correct me if I am. :D)

     In addition to all of this you could remove the to-hit stat from the game entirely, and make everything accuracy based. I would make all the accuracy increasing abilities and inspirations additive. Or make the to-hit stat PvP only. For the NPC's You could raise the chance to dodge per level above your own. I was thinking 10% per level.

     I never did a Hami raid while the game was live, but even without it I can tell that Hami enh are out of date. The Hami encounter is supposed to be a big deal. But compared to the IO sets HO's are SEVERELY lack luster. I was thinking, maybe you could adjust the HO's to ignore ED to some degree, similarly to how incarnate Alpha does.

[Dragon Crush]

Either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying regarding accuracy/to-hit, or that sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. It sounds like you'd need ED capped accuracy to get better than 40% hit-chance vs minions and defense debuffs would be useless.

 

And regards to agro-cap, not sure about removing it entirely, but would be cool if it was higher, or higher just for tanks to give them a more distinct advantage tanking over brutes/scrappers/EATs

Edited October 17, 2020 by Dragon Crush

[iceman2036]

I'm terrible at explaining things. I'll try better.

 

So let's say you're attacking a +0 minion. With this scale, a player would have a 100% chance to hit that minion. The minion has a 75% base chance to dodge attacks. That means without any enhancements, inspirations, defense debuffs, or buffs from the enemy, the minions inherent chance to dodge would lower your chance to hit from 100% to 25%. A even level accuracy SO enhancement adds 33.3% accuracy to you power. that means you hit chance is now 133.3%. Your new hit chance is; 133.3%-75%=58.3%. Using the same formula, if you use 1 small acc insp, it would further increase your accuracy by 7.5%. 1 enh, plus 1 small acc insp would be 140.8. 140.8-75=65.8%. That's how enh and insps would work.

 

If you use a defense debuff. let's say Rad Infection from corruptors. Rad infection has a base 25% defense debuff to the target. 75% from minion - 25% from rad emission = 50%. So the minions new defense with Rad emission would be 50%. With 1 acc enh, 1 small acc insp, your hit chance would be 140.8% 140.8%-50%=90.8%. you'll then have a 90.8% chance to hit. 

 

ED capped acc only effect enhancement. It doesn't effect Set IO's or powers like tactics, or build up. I never understood the difference between to-hit and accuracy. I always thought they were the same thing, only worded differently. You could replace to-hit with accuracy or make to-hit multiplicative instead of additive.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, iceman2036 said:

So let's say you're attacking a +0 minion. With this scale, a player would have a 100% chance to hit that minion. The minion has a 75% base chance to dodge attacks. That means without any enhancements, inspirations, defense debuffs, or buffs from the enemy, the minions inherent chance to dodge would lower your chance to hit from 100% to 25%.

And the new players with their level-1 characters and no enhancements get disgusted and go away when they can't hit anything reliablly. If you're going to be proposing a sweeping change like this, you can't just look at how it works for tricked-out level-capped characters; you need to look at how it works for everybody, regardless of their situation in the game. New players can easily find themselves fighting +2 lieutenants or bosses without the benefit of enhancements; what does your proposal do to their chance to hit, and what impression of the game does that give them? Jacking the entry bar thirty feet in the air for new players is not a viable option, no matter how much more regular and streamlined it makes play at level 50.

[iceman2036]

I was thinking about that too. I was thinking to either give low level players some buff that would allow to more reliably hit mobs until, SO's could be bought, or maybe have the inherent defense the mobs start out low, and get higher, eventually reaching it's peak at a certain level, so that it wouldn't be so bad at low level. Maybe start out at 5 or 10% and every 5 levels starting at level 12 the inherent defense would increase by 10%, until level 42. That way players would have access to all of their natural abilities and some enh slots to go with it.

[SeraphimKensai]

I'm all for removing the agro cap, your other suggestion regarding chances to dodge and such no thank you, but I appreciate the thought that went into it.

[Dragon Crush]

Well, the relationship between to-hit and accuracy is multiplicative, you have a base chance to hit of 75% and accuracy of 1.00, one 50 accuracy IO brings that 1.42 for 106.5% chance to hit an even level minion (capped at 95%). Raising to-hit by 6% would make that 81% x 1.42 for 122.12% chance to hit an even level minion (again, capped at 95%). Defense is essentially subtracted from to-hit, and chance to hit goes up or down depending on level difference.

 

Getting rid of to-hit and changing it to dodge chances just sounds like making everything far less accurate.

[Doomguide2005]

No to removing aggro caps.  Perhaps a slight boost to a Tanks cap, because it's their thing.  But n8o to anyone herding maps worth of mobs and holding their aggro.

 

Not sure how the changes to accuracy and to hit would improve anything especially for the massive reworking that would be required.