How to slot Enhancements while leveling?

[Tigersoul78]

What is the best way to slot most melee powers while leveling once I hit 22 and have access to SOs? Las I remember it was pretty straightforward with 3 damage 2 accuracy and 1 end redux

[jack_nomind]

Most people now start using IOs around level 22 (so L25 IOs), which are about as good as SOs and don't go red.  Basic four-slot approach is 1 endredux, 1 acc, 1 damage, and then either damage or +rech in the fourth slot (damage if you're having endurance problems, recharge if you're not).  With six slots for important attacks, you'd one damage and one of damage, accuracy, or recharge depending on the power.

 

Toggle powers usually get four or five slots (2 endredux, 2-3 defense or resist or heal), auto powers get three, and non-attack clicks are highly dependent on the specific power but almost always at least one recharge.

[Tigersoul78]

Where do I get lvl 25 IOs?

[jack_nomind]

The auction house (/ah in most zones) or by crafting.  There's a tutorial you can run at any university that will show you how to craft IOs, and awards you with one by the end.

[Tigersoul78]

Do you know roughly what one lvl 25 IO would cost? I don't have a ton of influence as this is my first character

[MunkiLord]

Do you know roughly what one lvl 25 IO would cost? I don't have a ton of influence as this is my first character

 

It can vary based on patience and luck. If you want to go the market and immediately get them, it can easily set you back a few million. If you're patient and craft recipes that drop for you and/or you're patient enough to bid on the lower end of enhancements, then it really won't cost much at all. The crafting cost for level 25 IOs is between 16-36k each, plus the cost of salvage. Here is a link that has a table with crafting costs:  https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Common_Invention_Recipes

[Sarrate]

Most people now start using IOs around level 22 (so L25 IOs), which are about as good as SOs and don't go red.

 

This is what I remember doing on the original servers. Another option would be to franken-slot with set IOs that affect multiple things at once (eg: Acc/Dmg). Slotting, say, Acc/Dmg x3 would provide better bonuses than could be achieved by single enhancements in the same number of slots.

 

Basic four-slot approach is 1 endredux, 1 acc, 1 damage, and then either damage or +rech in the fourth slot (damage if you're having endurance problems, recharge if you're not).  With six slots for important attacks, you'd one damage and one of damage, accuracy, or recharge depending on the power.

 

Toggle powers usually get four or five slots (2 endredux, 2-3 defense or resist or heal), auto powers get three, and non-attack clicks are highly dependent on the specific power but almost always at least one recharge.

 

I disagree with some of the advice here.

 

1) Primary attacks that you're going to be using all the time should eventually be 6 slotted, with 1 acc, 3 dmg, and then 2 other slots of acc/end/rech - depending on various factors (difficulty you play on, if you have other sources of +acc/tohit/recovery, etc). My defacto slotting (outside these other factors) would probably be 2x acc, 3x dmg, 1x end.

 

I think damage is better than end reduction because it kills enemies quicker and provides just as much of an endurance savings as an end reduction. Consider an attack that deals 100 dmg and costs 10 end.

 

With 1x dmg it would deal 133 dmg / 10 end = 13.3 dmg / end

With 1x end it would deal 100 dmg / ~7.52 end = 13.3 dmg / end

 

Of course, if you're fighting an enemy with 120 hp, slotted for damage, 1 attack would kill it (10 end) and 2 attacks when slotted for end (15.04 end). Lastly, when facing tougher enemies (higher rank and level) health regeneration becomes a factor. The fast you deal damage, the less time enemies have to regenerate, and the less health they can regenerate.

 

If we were talking about Brutes with a lower base damage and more damage bonuses from Rage, then you could get away with 2x damage and more end/rech.

 

2) You're recommending over slotting toggles for end reduction. Consider a single attack, like Hack: 1.33s cast, 8s recharge, and 8.53 end. Just that one attack will cost 8.53 / (1.33 + 8 ) = ~0.91 end/sec. Now take Dark Armor running Dark Embrace (0.21 end/sec), Murky Cloud (0.21 end/sec), Obsidian Shield (0.21 end/sec), and Death Should (0.52 end/sec) all together weigh in at 1.15 end/sec.

 

A single end reducer in Hack would drop that cost to 0.685 end/sec, a savings of 0.225 end/sec for 1 slot.

Two end reducers in all of the above toggles? That would drop the usage to 0.862 end/sec, a savings of 0.288 end/sec for 8 slots.

 

3) Passive slotting should be taken on a per passive basis. For a defensive set like SR trying to reach the soft cap? By all means, slot the passives. You're already stacking copious amounts of defense, and each percent more you have becomes that much more valuable. On a set like Invuln? Taking the elemental / energies passives is okay, but there isn't much else to stack with them, so slotting them isn't terribly valuable compared to using those slots in other places.

[Without_Pause]

Slot one end redux in attacks and toggles and call it a day. You can get badges for crafting common IOs which will allow you to not need the recipes anymore and thus save you in terms of cost.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invention_Badges

[Saikochoro]

When I asked about leveling slotting the advice I got was to use level 25 IO as they will save money in the long run since they don’t level out. I originally was slotting 3 accuracy, but switched to just 2 after asking some more questions. It is pretty pricey to slot out full level 25 IOs, but I was able to do it.  Might not be the best thing to do, but since I am not working on any sets I sold my orange salvage and got about 5 million infamy and that was more than enough to pay for a set of 25 IOs. They have been working great so far. I also do the IO tutorial at the steel canyon university on each alt for the level 25 IO reward.

[jack_nomind]

1) Primary attacks that you're going to be using all the time should eventually be 6 slotted, with 1 acc, 3 dmg, and then 2 other slots of acc/end/rech - depending on various factors (difficulty you play on, if you have other sources of +acc/tohit/recovery, etc). My defacto slotting (outside these other factors) would probably be 2x acc, 3x dmg, 1x end.

 

sure; that works out the same as mine, but with recharge suggested over damage if there are no endurance problems.  the reason is because you only get about 1/2 to 1/4th the effectiveness from the third damage io depending on what level they all are, vs full effectiveness from a second +rech.  if you can afford a tighter attack chain it means not only more hits, but also that weaker powers can be de-prioritized.

 

2) You're recommending over slotting toggles for end reduction. Consider...

 

all attacks, universally, should have 1 end reduction in them while levelling.  the second endurance reduction... well.  hack with 1 endredux costs by your method ~0.625 end/s, and with two, ~0.485; a savings of ~0.13/s.  that's... significantly less dramatic than the savings you were proposing, don't you think?  but if that were the only factor, i'd nonetheless agree with you that the second attack endurance slot is more valuable; it's about three times (not eight) as valuable as a second endredux in a set toggle, and about twice as valuable as a second endredux in a pool toggle.  unfortunately, hack will likely already be maxed out in slots with 1 end, 1 acc, 1-2 rech, and 2-3 dmg as we've both recommended.

 

toggles must be "over" slotted simply because they have space for it -- and to a small extent, because having a toggle drop is usually much worse than not being able to throw another Hack for a second or two. 

[Tigersoul78]

Definitely a lot to think about. I'll be getting my free IO for sure and start crafting as soon as I can I suppose. What salvage is the best to put on the market? I'm definitely gonna need a lot of influence just for the IOs that I don't craft

[jack_nomind]

orange salvage is effectively capped at 1 mil inf by the developers.  so any orange salvage you have will sell for near that much.

[Sarrate]

sure; that works out the same as mine, but with recharge suggested over damage if there are no endurance problems.  the reason is because you only get about 1/2 to 1/4th the effectiveness from the third damage io depending on what level they all are, vs full effectiveness from a second +rech.  if you can afford a tighter attack chain it means not only more hits, but also that weaker powers can be de-prioritized.

 

The question was about slotting while leveling, so I'm assuming enhancements that are basically as strong as SOs (33.3% for schedule A). The third enhancement is reduced in effectiveness, sure, but not by the 1/4 - 1/2 you cite. If memory serves (and Paragon Wiki backs me up), three SOs is +95% vs the +99% without ED. That means the third SO would function at ~87.1% effectiveness. A small hit, but worth it.

 

If you're talking about raw lvl 50 IOs, then you'd have a point, but then I'd franken slot to the ED soft cap.

 

Yes, you have a point about recharge and deprioritizing (or straight out eliminating) other attacks, but my experience was rarely possible while leveling alone. Some sets might have an easier time than others (like Regen or WP), but even those could run OOE in prolonged encounters while leveling.

 

What I'm driving at here is that by not 3 slotting damage you're leaving damage (eg: alpha strike potential, and the need for fewer attacks) and endurance efficiency (more damage for the same end) on the table. Get that squared away before adding recharge.

 

This calculus changes when you start going for IO bonuses, but soft capping damage is still a priority.

 

 

all attacks, universally, should have 1 end reduction in them while levelling.  the second endurance reduction... well.  hack with 1 endredux costs by your method ~0.625 end/s, and with two, ~0.485; a savings of ~0.13/s.  that's... significantly less dramatic than the savings you were proposing, don't you think?  but if that were the only factor, i'd nonetheless agree with you that the second attack endurance slot is more valuable; it's about three times (not eight) as valuable as a second endredux in a set toggle, and about twice as valuable as a second endredux in a pool toggle.  unfortunately, hack will likely already be maxed out in slots with 1 end, 1 acc, 1-2 rech, and 2-3 dmg as we've both recommended.

 

toggles must be "over" slotted simply because they have space for it -- and to a small extent, because having a toggle drop is usually much worse than not being able to throw another Hack for a second or two.

 

I don't follow how you're coming up your numbers.

 

Hack (no end redux): 8.53 end / (8 + 1.33 sec) = ~0.914 end/sec

Hack (1x end SO): (8.53 / 1.333) / (8 + 1.33 sec) = 0.686 end/sec

Hack (1x end IO, lvl50): (8.53 / 1.424) / (8 + 1.33 sec) = 0.642 end/sec

 

In order to reach 0.625 end/sec you'd need 45.6% end reduction. How are you calculating the costs of 0.625 and 0.485?

 

 

Maybe I build differently, but I rarely - if ever - remember thinking "man, where am I going to put these slots?" It was more "if I had X more slots, I could do Y." That's why I'd suggest 4 slotting a standard toggle (1x end, 3x res/def/heal), or 6 slotting (damage toggle, for example). The extra end reduction on a standard defensive toggle is minimal (Dark Embrace, 0.21 end/sec, each end SO saves 0.052 end/sec). For comparison, on a character with 100 endurance, a single SO in Stamina yields +0.14 end/sec.

 

If you're at the point where your toggles are going to drop, either stop attacking early or you're going to crash anyways (in the case of end/recovery debuffs).

[Riverdusk]

I've been told several times I'm "wasting my money", but what I typically do is actually start slotting cheap sets at 25, not just regular IO's.  The key is cheap sets of course, which isn't always a possibility, but sometimes is.  I don't care a bit about the set bonuses they offer at that level, it is about the fact that you can get ones that enhance in dual or triple areas.  For melee, ones like bruising blow or bonesnap are good examples and there are many others.  They sell for cheap and use nothing but common or uncommon salvage.  With some frankenslotting you can get good accuracy, damage, recharge, and endurance, and often do it using only 4 or 5 slots, saving those precious early slots to use elsewhere (until later).  All for not much different than the cost of making regular IO's.

 

Of course if you are blowing through the levels it may not even be worth the extra bit of time it takes, but for those taking it slower it can definitely be worthwhile imo.