best primary for AoE?

[TheSpiritFox]

1 minute ago, Arbegla said:

 

I'm curious about this, as the Gaussin's BU proc has a really high chance of proccing, due to how Tactics works, increasing the proc chance for EACH target of tactics, so its up pretty often.

 

Someone mathed it out. Guassians adds like 2 dps less than a proc in the same slot in enforcers. Not a massive difference, but that's specifically compared to the lethal proc which fits in enforcers. The neg energy proc adds just a bit more because instead of increasing lethal damage which is highly resisted you're adding negative which is not often resisted and usually only by mobs which are not super resistant to lethal damage, spreading your damage out overall and making you perform better vs everything. 

 

If enforcers did not have 4 - def attacks where procs act as if you slotted the proc separately into each attack with no recharge, gaussians would be better, but because of how often enforcers can proc the damage procs the procs really do shine.  Also, gaussians has the same level range as the neg energy proc (which you do not want to lose) but the lethal proc has a min level of 10, which means you keep it working down into posi levels when you'd lose gaussians if you replaced the lethal proc with it. 

[tidge]

Bots don't have Gang War to mule Aura sets, so if the measure is going to be 'slot the henchmen for procs', well... yes Robots will suffer.

 

However... Bots don't run all over creation, they stay in place to finish off enemies. I've had ZERO problems keeping my robotic henchmen alive.. I can barely keep my different tiers of Thugs to stay in one place.

[Vinceq98]

So to answer this topic for CURRENT MM players. Select Thugs = PROFiT! . there is your AOE monster. 

 

WE can revisit this if or WHEN the MM primaries will get a balance patch by the homecoming team.

[tidge]

I think the answer was /Traps.

[TheSpiritFox]

9 hours ago, tidge said:

Bots don't have Gang War to mule Aura sets, so if the measure is going to be 'slot the henchmen for procs', well... yes Robots will suffer.

 

However... Bots don't run all over creation, they stay in place to finish off enemies. I've had ZERO problems keeping my robotic henchmen alive.. I can barely keep my different tiers of Thugs to stay in one place.

 

With the changes they made to goto behavior, all pets do this now. Like, absent damage patches which send pets running and which all pets will stand in and not run if you hit the stay command, demons, thugs, bots, beasts, I have not had any problems with pets running all over creation since they updated how the pet AI works. But I will say that other than occasionally the arsonist who can draw an entire group's alpha with his first attack and go down, thugs feels much tankier. Especially because of how protector bot shield's work, which makes bots much more subject to cascade failure and death if you have to resummon in combat, all of your bots have to get rebuffed and single target casting, that takes a second during which your defenses are super low. Thug's leadership is a much better buff. 

One of the bots changes I really hope we see is an aoe cast bubble on the protectors. 

[tidge]

My Thugs MM was rolled after the changes to henchmen AI; I'm not ignorant how to command henchmen. It's clear that your opinion is that Thugs are a cut above all others, and in many ways they are... but I believe in terms of AoE, against large spawns (e.g. x8), that it is Robots that come out on top. I completely agree that the Traps secondary is a large part of it. Traps has both the FFG and a Triage Beacon to provide direct help to the henchmen, beyond the Protector Bot's shield boost to allies. I don't typically experience "cascading failure" when it comes to Robots, except:

• against very specific enemy types (e.g. Rularuu) that have both nasty tricks stacked on their attacks AND don't cluster like other enemies
• If I am making a "mad dash" through +4 enemies as part of a TF (because I'm not laying down the AoE controls), and the henchmen don't keep up (losing both the benefits of protective auras and FFG).

Against almost all single target tests, Robots are really bad(1). My Robots can typically handle as many different spawns as I can drag into their kill zone. It isn't a lot of fun, but my Robots are able to take down multiple GMs (one at a time, and sloooowly) which is not something I would bother trying to do with my Thugs.

 

(1) Re: Single target misery (in Robots) No one should underestimate the importance of the T1 and T2 Robotic henchmen for dealing with single-targets. It is a common statement made along the lines of "80% of your DPS comes from the Assault Bot, look at TEH NUMBAS". I used the second build on my Robots/Traps to try the "one big robot" challenge, just to see what content would be like... and I swear that it took me between two (at x1) and three (at x4) times as long to get through typical game content (level-independent arcs, Ouroboros, tips). The force-multiplier effects from the T1 and T2 should not be underestimated.

[BGSacho]

 

21 hours ago, Arbegla said:

 

I'm curious about this, as the Gaussin's BU proc has a really high chance of proccing, due to how Tactics works, increasing the proc chance for EACH target of tactics, so its up pretty often.

The maximum uptime Gaussian BU can have is about 50%(well, 52.5%), since toggles trigger procs every 10 seconds and Gaussian lasts 5.25 seconds. On enforcers this gives you a maximum damage contribution from it to about 42% damage(52.5% chance for 80% damage). Even at 50% ED, Enforcers would gain about 11 dps vs about 16 from a proc. Gaussian might be worth it over regular acc/dmg if the uptime is high enough. You already want to slot achilles heel and the 2 damage procs into enforcers, and probably at least 1 +def, so there's not much room for stuff anyway.

[tidge]

I have the Gaussian's %Build Up slotted as mention, and I see it up often... but I question if it is really the optimal choice (for the rest of the MM build) only because I don't usually see the T2 Henchmen making attacks in the short window when it is active. This is the sort of thing that I think is objectively hard to assess because it depends on a certain amount of asynchronous syncrhonicity involving the positioning of the henchmen, available targets, etc. I think I keep it because I just like seeing the little violet fist appear next to the henchmen.

[ScarySai]

Bots will have better AoE, but thugs will be very close while being much better overall.