Knockback mez interactions - inconsistencies, bugs, general big list of data

[Replacement]

Purpose: a list of all Immobilizes (and in further posts, related powers) set up with Knockback interactions that run counter to the "rule" that may-or-may-not officially exist.  I believe many of these (or even all of them) are bugs, depending on what the rule ends up becoming. 

The only player-accessible Immobilizes I have skipped (to my knowledge) are those that follow the rule of NOT applying protection, but DO apply resistance.

 

Stuff to know if you don't know what I'm talking about:

There are a lot of powers (some immobilizes, ice holds) that add +knock resist (turns knockbacks into knockdowns) and +knock protection (makes enemy immune to knocks more or less entirely).

At some point (I think during the Snap), many Immobilizes were designated to have either the Resist added or the Protection removed.
I believe this was "trial ran" to ensure it would have good results. 

 

The rule of thumb:

• If a power gives Knockback protection - probably bad.  Prevents Knocks entirely.
• If a power gives Knockback resistance - usually good.  Since this is a number like 10,000%, it turns all knockbacks into KDs for as long as they are mezzed.

 

The Inconsistencies:

 

1. We currently lack a true definition of intent for the game going forward.  This can invalidate a lot of what can be construed as a bug.  I am operating under the rule that all Immobilizes should have Knock resistance but not protection, but that could be updated to something like "every Control set shall have an ST and AoE knockback reducer."
2. There are holds and other thematic considerations that may always require their own rules.  Right now, the big exceptions are
   * "Ice block" holds that fully encase your enemy - these all provide mez resist and protection, and that may be warranted.  There are a few other powers that may deserve the same treatment.
   * Gravity Holds have the KB reducers instead of the Immobilize powers.  This is a bit goofy, but ok.

 

 

Data time

Every power in the following list should be considered "flagged for review."  I have marked many on my own version of this data as "bug" and I am happy to color code these accordingly, but I have left that out for now.

Epic powers are some of the biggest offenders.  Note that due to me listing it out here by AT, many of these are data duplicates despite referencing the same file (Tanker and Brute, for example).

 

Final reminder for reading these tables: KB Protection bad, KB Resistance good.

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Arachnos Soldier:	Arachnos Soldier:	Wide Area Web Grenade	✔	✔	taoe immob
Arachnos Soldier:	Training and Gadgets:	Arachnobot>Web Spitter	✔	✔	pet immob	via Call Reinforcements
Arachnos Soldier:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Arachnos Soldier:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Guardian>Stone Prison	✔	x	pet immob	Villain Pets.Coral Guardian Sentinel.Stone Prison
Arachnos Soldier:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Arachnos Soldier:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Blaster>Web	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Arachnobot Blaster.Web
Arachnos Soldier:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Arachnos Soldier:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Arachnos Widow:	Fortunata Training:	Subdue	x	x	st immob
Arachnos Widow:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Arachnos Widow:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Guardian>Stone Prison	✔	x	pet immob	Villain Pets.Coral Guardian Sentinel.Stone Prison
Arachnos Widow:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Arachnos Widow:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Blaster>Web	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Arachnobot Blaster.Web
Arachnos Widow:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Arachnos Widow:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Blaster:	Atomic Manipulation:	Electron Shackles	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Darkness Manipulation:	Penumbral Grasp	x	x	st immob
Blaster:	Darkness Manipulation:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Blaster:	Devices:	Toxic Web Grenade	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Electricity Manipulation:	Electric Fence	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Fire Manipulation:	Ring of Fire	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Ice Manipulation:	Chilblain	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Mental Manipulation:	Subdual	x	x	st immob
Blaster:	Ninja Training:	Immobilizing Dart	x	x	st immob
Blaster:	Plant Manipulation:	Entangle	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Tactical Arrow:	Electrified Net Arrow	✔	✔	st immob
Blaster:	Temporal Manipulation:	Time Wall	x	x	st immob	Immob missing from short text
Blaster:	Dark Blast:	Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	cone immob
Blaster:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Blaster:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Blaster:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Blaster:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Brute:	Dark Melee:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Brute:	Martial Arts:	Crippling Axe Kick	x	x	st immob
Brute:	Spines:	Impale	x	x	st immob
Brute:	Staff Fighting	Innocuous Strikes	x	x	cone immob
Brute:	Arctic Mastery:	Chilblain	✔	✔	st immob
Brute:	Earth Mastery:	Stone Prison	✔	✔	st immob
Brute:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Brute:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Guardian>Stone Prison	✔	x	pet immob	Villain Pets.Coral Guardian Sentinel.Stone Prison
Brute:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Brute:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Blaster>Web	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Arachnobot Blaster.Web
Brute:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Brute:	Pyre Mastery:	Ring of Fire	✔	✔	st immob
Brute:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Controller:	Darkness Control:	Umbra Beast>Shadowy Binds	✔	✔	pet immob	PET IMMOB
Controller:	Electric Control:	Chain Fences	x	x	taoe immob
Controller:	Gravity Control:	Crush	x	x	st immob
Controller:	Gravity Control:	Crushing Field	x	x	taoe immob
Controller:	Plant Control:	Vines>Entangle	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Creeper Patch.Entangle
Controller:	Plant Control:	Fly Trap>Entangle	✔	✔	pet immob
Controller:	Darkness Affinity:	Dark Servant>Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	pet cone immob
Controller:	Traps:	Web Grenade	✔	✔	st immob
Controller:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Tarantula	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Toxic Tarantula.Web
Controller:	Soul Mastery:	Summon Seer>Subdue	x	x	pet immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Corruptor:	Darkness Affinity:	Dark Servant>Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	pet cone immob
Corruptor:	Traps:	Web Grenade	✔	✔	st immob
Corruptor:	Dark Blast:	Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	cone immob
Corruptor:	Psychic Blast:	Subdue	x	x	st immob
Corruptor:	Electricity Mastery:	Electric Fence	✔	✔	st immob
Corruptor:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Corruptor:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Coralax>Subdue	x	x	pet immob	Villain Pets.Coralax Red Hybrid.Subdue
Corruptor:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Corruptor:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Disruptor>Web Spitter	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Arachnobot Disrupter.Web Spitter
Corruptor:	Soul Mastery:	Summon Mistress>Subdue	x	x	pet immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Defender:	Darkness Affinity:	Dark Servant>Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	pet cone immob
Defender:	Traps:	Web Grenade	✔	✔	st immob
Defender:	Dark Blast:	Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	cone immob
Defender:	Psychic Blast:	Subdue	x	x	st immob
Defender:	Electricity Mastery:	Electric Fence	✔	✔	st immob
Defender:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Defender:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Coralax>Subdue	x	x	pet immob	Villain Pets.Coralax Red Hybrid.Subdue
Defender:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Defender:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Disruptor>Web Spitter	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Arachnobot Disrupter.Web Spitter
Defender:	Soul Mastery:	Summon Mistress>Subdue	x	x	pet immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Dominator:	Darkness Control:	Umbra Beast>Shadowy Binds	✔	✔	pet immob
Dominator:	Electric Control:	Chain Fences	x	x	taoe immob
Dominator:	Gravity Control:	Crush	x	x	st immob
Dominator:	Gravity Control:	Crushing Field	x	x	taoe immob
Dominator:	Plant Control:	Vines>Entangle	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Creeper Patch.Entangle
Dominator:	Plant Control:	Fly Trap>Entangle	✔	✔	pet immob
Dominator:	Dark Assault:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Dominator:	Earth Assault:	Mud Pots	x	x	toggle immob
Dominator:	Psionic Assault:	Subdue	x	x	st immob
Dominator:	Thorny Assault:	Impale	x	x	st immob
Dominator:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Tarantula	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Toxic Tarantula.Web
Dominator:	Soul Mastery:	Summon Seer>Subdue	x	x	pet immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Mastermind:	Darkness Affinity:	Dark Servant>Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	pet cone immob
Mastermind:	Traps:	Web Grenade	✔	✔	st immob
Mastermind:	Mercenaries:	Spec Ops>Web Grenade	✔	✔	pet immob
Mastermind:	Necromancy:	Lich>Tenebrous Tentacles	x	x	pet immob	via Enchant Undead; Mastermind Pets.Lich.Tenebrous Tentacles
Mastermind:	NInjas:	Oni>Ring of Fire	✔	✔	pet immob	via Train Ninjas; Mastermind Pets.Oni.Ring of Fire
Mastermind:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Mastermind:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Mastermind:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Mastermind:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Scrapper:	Dark Melee:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Scrapper:	Martial Arts:	Crippling Axe Kick	x	x	st immob
Scrapper:	Spines:	Impale	x	x	st immob
Scrapper:	Staff Fighting	Innocuous Strikes	x	x	cone immob
Scrapper:	Blaze Mastery:	Ring of Fire	✔	✔	st immob
Scrapper:	Darkness Mastery:	Tenebrous Tentalces	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Sentinel:	Dark Mastery:	Netherworld Tentacles	✔	✔	cone immob
Sentinel:	Electricity Mastery:	Chain Fences	x	x	taoe immob
Sentinel:	Fire Mastery:	Fire Cages	✔	✔	taoe immob
Sentinel:	Ice Mastery:	Frostbite	✔	✔	taoe immob
Sentinel:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Sentinel:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Sentinel:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Tarantula>Web	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Toxic Tarantula.Web
Sentinel:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Sentinel:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob
Sentinel:	Soul Mastery:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Sentinel:	Soul Mastery:	Summon Mistress>Subdue	x	x	pet immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Stalker:	Dark Melee:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Stalker:	Martial Arts:	Crippling Axe Kick	x	x	st immob
Stalker:	Spines:	Impale	x	x	st immob
Stalker:	Blaze Mastery:	Ring of Fire	✔	✔	st immob
Stalker:	Darkness Mastery:	Tenebrous Tentalces	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Tanker:	Dark Melee:	Midnight Grasp	x	x	st immob
Tanker:	Martial Arts:	Crippling Axe Kick	x	x	st immob
Tanker:	Spines:	Impale	x	x	st immob
Tanker:	Staff Fighting	Innocuous Strikes	x	x	cone immob
Tanker:	Arctic Mastery:	Chilblain	✔	✔	st immob
Tanker:	Earth Mastery:	Stone Prison	✔	✔	st immob
Tanker:	Leviathan Mastery:	School of Sharks	x	x	cone immob
Tanker:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Guardian>Stone Prison	✔	x	pet immob	Villain Pets.Coral Guardian Sentinel.Stone Prison
Tanker:	Mace Mastery:	Web Envelope	x	x	taoe immob
Tanker:	Mace Mastery:	Summon Blaster>Web	✔	✔	pet immob	Villain Pets.Arachnobot Blaster.Web
Tanker:	Mu Mastery:	Electrifying Fences	✔	✔	taoe immob
Tanker:	Pyre Mastery:	Ring of Fire	✔	✔	st immob
Tanker:	Soul Mastery:	Soul Tentacles	x	x	cone immob

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Warshade:	Umbral Blast:	Gravimetric Snare	x	x	st immob

 

 

Link to make a copy of my compiled data - first page is organized by Set type instead of by AT, and is set up to be easily filterable. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16IIkp7Nte-EiHB0e1pKEqB_FwexecOljCZvV1ekdibw/copy

Edited July 28, 2021 by Replacement

[Replacement]

As mentioned above, there are also some Holds that get in on the KB reducing action:

 

AT	Power Set	Power Name	KB Protection	KB Resistance	Power Summary	Misc Notes
Blaster:	Ice Manipulation:	Freezing Touch	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Blaster:	Tactical Arrow:	Ice Arrow	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Blaster:	Ice Blast:	Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Blaster:	Ice Blast:	Bitter Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Blaster:	Munitions Mastery:	Cryo Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Brute:	Ice Melee:	Freezing Touch	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Brute:	Arctic Mastery:	Block of Ice	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Controller:	Earth Control:	Fossilize	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Controller:	Gravity Control:	Gravity Distortion	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Controller:	Gravity Control:	Gravity Distortion Field	x	✔	taoe hold	HOLD
Controller:	Gravity Control:	Singularity>Gravity Distortion	✔	✔	pet ST hold	PET HOLD
Controller:	Ice Control:	Block of Ice	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Controller:	Ice Control:	Glacier	x	✔	pbaoe hold	HOLD
Controller:	Ice Control:	Jack's Freezing Touch	✔	✔	pet ST hold	PET HOLD
Controller:	Trick Arrow:	Ice Arrow	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Corruptor:	Trick Arrow:	Ice Arrow	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Corruptor:	Ice Blast:	Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Corruptor:	Ice Blast:	Bitter Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Defender:	Trick Arrow:	Ice Arrow	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Defender:	Ice Blast:	Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Defender:	Ice Blast:	Bitter Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Dominator:	Earth Control:	Fossilize	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Dominator:	Gravity Control:	Gravity Distortion	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Dominator:	Gravity Control:	Gravity Distortion Field	x	✔	taoe hold	HOLD
Dominator:	Gravity Control:	Singularity>Gravity Distortion	✔	✔	pet ST hold	PET HOLD
Dominator:	Ice Control:	Block of Ice	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Dominator:	Ice Control:	Glacier	x	✔	pbaoe hold	HOLD
Dominator:	Ice Control:	Jack's Freezing Touch	✔	✔	pet ST hold	PET HOLD
Mastermind:	Trick Arrow:	Ice Arrow	x	✔	st hold	HOLD
Mastermind:	Demon Summoning:	Demon Prince>Block of Ice	✔	✔	pet hold	HOLD via Enchant Demon; Mastermind Pets.Demon Prince.Block of Ice
Scrapper:	Ice Melee:	Freezing Touch	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Scrapper:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Guardian>Fossilize	✔	✔	pet hold	HOLD; Villain Pets.Coral Guardian Warder.Fossilize
Sentinel:	Ice Blast:	Bitter Freeze Ray	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Sentinel:	Ice Mastery:	Block of Ice	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Stalker:	Ice Melee:	Freezing Touch	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Stalker:	Leviathan Mastery:	Summon Guardian>Fossilize	✔	✔	pet hold	HOLD; Villain Pets.Coral Guardian Warder.Fossilize
Tanker:	Ice Melee:	Freezing Touch	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD
Tanker:	Arctic Mastery:	Block of Ice	✔	✔	st hold	HOLD

[Replacement]

 

For the sake of completeness, I have included below the list of the game's Contain/Intangible powers.

 

These all have "Immobilize" components but

1. Do not have any Knockback stats.
2. Are probably fine to exempt anyway.  I always considered the Immobilizes in these powers as a necessary secondary effect to pull off the fiction they are conveying.

 

But here they are!

 

Controller:	Gravity Control:	Dimension Shift	x	x	laoe intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Controller:	Darkness Affinity:	Black Hole	x	x	taoe Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Controller:	Force Field:	Detention field	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Controller:	Sonic Resonance:	Sonic Cage	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Corruptor:	Darkness Affinity:	Black Hole	x	x	taoe Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Corruptor:	Force Field:	Detention field	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Corruptor:	Sonic Resonance:	Sonic Cage	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Defender:	Darkness Affinity:	Black Hole	x	x	taoe Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Defender:	Force Field:	Detention field	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Defender:	Sonic Resonance:	Sonic Cage	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Dominator:	Gravity Control:	Dimension Shift	x	x	laoe intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Mastermind:	Darkness Affinity:	Black Hole	x	x	taoe Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Mastermind:	Force Field:	Detention field	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE
Mastermind:	Sonic Resonance:	Sonic Cage	x	x	st Intangible	Immob + INTANGIBLE

[Solarverse]

Why has this gotten absolutely zero responses? As many people who complain about this in game, you would think this thread would be popping. Real disappointing when you speak up on complaints people have regularly, but you garner no support. I'm here to support, @Replacement