Another round of VEAT suggestions - Night Widow specific

[Vanden]

38 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Well, I guess that's it. No matter what I show, suggestion, or relate from personal experience. You are just going to stay everything is fine.

 

I've never said everything is fine. What I actually said was:

 

On 9/1/2021 at 1:55 PM, Vanden said:

Are VEATs' issues with endurance worse than any other non-Blaster AT? It's not impossible.

 

I'm trying to point out that the issue is more nuanced and complicated than "Night Widows have end issues." Nearly all sets have end issues to some degree, so you should provide some evidence that Night Widows truly are exceptional. Your Time to End Crash videos are interesting, but not particularly compelling as evidence to me, because the details of your build make it impossible to compare to other sets.

[Vanden]

Check it, @KaizenSoze, I did you a solid and did an end cost test with a Night Widow. Same conditions as in the other thread; 2 even-level Recharge SOs in each power, powers used in basically a random order, favoring the strongest power that was recharged. The Night Widow also had Mental Training, because of course it would.

 

Power	# of Casts	End Cost per Cast	Total End Cost over 60s
Follow Up	7	7.8	54.6
Swipe	2	4.16	8.32
Strike	9	7.47	67.23
Lunge	7	9.48	66.36
Slash	5	14.25	71.25
Eviscerate	5	13.52	67.6
Spin	4	15.44	61.76
Mask Presence	(toggle)	0.21/s	12.6
Indomitable Will	(toggle)	0.21/s	12.6
TT: Maneuvers	(toggle)	0.21/s	12.6

 

In the 60 seconds of the test, the Night Widow spent 397.12 endurance on attacks alone. That is in fact significantly more than the 271.61 endurance the Dark Melee character spent. So it looks like Night Widows may in fact have serious endurance troubles. (I've never played one.) If nothing else we can conclude they spend significantly more endurance than Dark Melee. If anyone more familiar with Night Widows (and what powers a good one would take) wants to run the test themselves, I invite you to contribute more data.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Vanden

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

Check it, @KaizenSoze, I did you a solid and did an end cost test with a Night Widow. Same conditions as in the other thread; 2 even-level Recharge SOs in each power, powers used in basically a random order, favoring the strongest power that was recharged. The Night Widow also had Mental Training, because of course it would.

 

Power	# of Casts	End Cost per Cast	Total End Cost over 60s
Follow Up	7	7.8	54.6
Swipe	2	4.16	8.32
Strike	9	7.47	67.23
Lunge	7	9.48	66.36
Slash	5	14.25	71.25
Eviscerate	5	13.52	67.6
Spin	4	15.44	61.76
Mask Presence	(toggle)	0.21/s	12.6
Indomitable Will	(toggle)	0.21/s	12.6
TT: Maneuvers	(toggle)	0.21/s	12.6

 

In the 60 seconds of the test, the Night Widow spent 397.12 endurance on attacks alone. That is in fact significantly more than the 271.61 endurance the Dark Melee character spent. So it looks like Night Widows may in fact have serious endurance troubles. (I've never played one.) If nothing else we can conclude they spend significantly more endurance than Dark Melee. If anyone more familiar with Night Widows (and what powers a good one would take) wants to run the test themselves, I invite you to contribute more data.

Bopper posted the equation for endurance cost earlier.

 

My current theory on why end costs are high, is the base recharge is higher for many attacks, not sure if the endConstant varies between ATs. I am guessing it does.

 

Comparing them to non-claws attacks many Night Widow claw attacks cost more end and higher recharge than many well know end hog sets like Scrapper's War Mace and Battle Axe.

 

For example, Whirling Mace, Whirling Axe, and NW Spin all have the same recharge, but Spin costs 2.44(16%) more end. For, 4-14% less damage before taking criticals into account.

 

To be clear, I do not want NW damage to be equal before crits to scrappers. That would be silly. I would like to see some mitigation to the end costs.

 

Fortunatas are not as reliant on claw attacks, hence they have less end issues. They still have end issues. 🙂

 

Dominate is the easiest to compare. Forts have the cheapest end version by 15% and the most damage compared to Controllers and Doms. But Fort Psionic Tornado has the highest end cost by 12% of any version.

 

 

[KaizenSoze]

7 hours ago, Vanden said:

So it looks like Night Widows may in fact have serious endurance troubles. (I've never played one.) If nothing else we can conclude they spend significantly more endurance than Dark Melee. If anyone more familiar with Night Widows (and what powers a good one would take) wants to run the test themselves, I invite you to contribute more data.

 

  Your single target chain, Follow up, Slash, Lunge, Strike, Swipe, if you want to focus on claw attacks only. That should be close to gap less depending on recharge. If you need more filler than Poison Dart to avoid redraw.

 

  I have this love-hate relationship with Eviscerate, you could sub that for Swipe. After the research in this thread. I am dropping it. 

[A.I.D.A.]

It's the lack of the ability to take Body Mastery ancillary that hurts Arachnos Archetypes' endurance management, not anything else. When comparing a Widow to a Stalker (or a Soldier to a Brute), the availability of Superior Conditioning and Physical Perfection in the ancillary makes it possible for Stalkers and Brutes of all set combinations to slot four separately-running endurance procs (three Performance Shifters and one Panacea).

By contrast, Widows and Soldiers only ever have Stamina and Health in which to slot procs. Perhaps giving the inherent a default slot to allow it to take a Performance Shifter proc would be the best answer here.