[Indomitable] 8v8 Arena PvP - Pick Up Groups (Kickball)

[M3z]

Hi Everyone,

 

Going to post here periodically when we host PuGs on indom. Everyone is invited although just a forewarning if you bring a strictly pve build you might not have a good time but if you ask for builds/advice etc. People will tell you what to build, what to do, provide mids builds etc. so you can have a good time. We're always looking for more people.

 

I'll update this post with more info if people ask/later on as I think of it, kinda writing it fast while we host this thing lol.

 

Link to stream: https://www.twitch.tv/coh_m3z

Link to discord: https://discord.gg/ACfXPxK

Edited April 10, 2022 by M3z

[M3z]

Thanks to anyone who tuned in.

 

PuGs start tuesday (every week) at 9 PM EST US time.

Edited April 10, 2022 by M3z

[Glacier Peak]

Glad to see you're back at the CoH PvP streams. And I'm happy to see the Energy Melee/ Stone Armor Stalker Scrapper build in action. I've had a Stalker version collecting dust on the beta shard after doing testing a while back, but I've been meaning to see it to fruition on the live shards. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[Glacier Peak]

@M3z I've got a follow up question for you since you've done a good deal of kickball, zone, and competitive PvP with Masterminds.

 

Here me out as an amateur who rarely PvPs anymore. My question is - Why is Fly the least used travel power, if not used at all in PvP?

 

By my testing, Hover + Fly + Evasive Maneuvers + Fly Protection IO = 10.3 or so Magnitude Fly Protection. Web Grenade can apply a -10 Magnitude Fly Protection (but can also be easily casted a second time in less than 4 seconds base and the -Fly effects can stack). So the Fly user can manage to escape by smashing the space bar as long as they can get out of range of the second Web Grenade. This is assuming a 1v1 situation and not dedicate target tracking/attacking from a team, but...

I've been told that Group Fly (which has a 60ft radius) can apply Fly Protection to each user and stack with each caster (though I am not sure exactly how much since Fly Protection isn't an attribute described in game). In my little experience in organized/competitive play, I don't see anyone using Group Fly. I know it has it's downsides of endurance cost for each additional teammate and its 60ft range.

 

So yeah, why isn't Fly used as a travel power and should this be changed in the future for PvP? 

[M3z]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

@M3z I've got a follow up question for you since you've done a good deal of kickball, zone, and competitive PvP with Masterminds.

 

Here me out as an amateur who rarely PvPs anymore. My question is - Why is Fly the least used travel power, if not used at all in PvP?

 

By my testing, Hover + Fly + Evasive Maneuvers + Fly Protection IO = 10.3 or so Magnitude Fly Protection. Web Grenade can apply a -10 Magnitude Fly Protection (but can also be easily casted a second time in less than 4 seconds base and the -Fly effects can stack). So the Fly user can manage to escape by smashing the space bar as long as they can get out of range of the second Web Grenade. This is assuming a 1v1 situation and not dedicate target tracking/attacking from a team, but...

I've been told that Group Fly (which has a 60ft radius) can apply Fly Protection to each user and stack with each caster (though I am not sure exactly how much since Fly Protection isn't an attribute described in game). In my little experience in organized/competitive play, I don't see anyone using Group Fly. I know it has it's downsides of endurance cost for each additional teammate and its 60ft range.

 

So yeah, why isn't Fly used as a travel power and should this be changed in the future for PvP? 

From what I remember, movement speed powers in general were changed fairly drastically in terms of DR curves and other ways that basically made all movespeed powers sj, ss, tp, fly all much more viable in their own way. Fly in general is actually much faster due to a combination of things including how buffs affect players and the power itself just being a little faster (anyone reading this correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Fly is actually not too bad when used in combination with jaunt (experimentation teleport power) and teleport. The problem is that it takes a power pool, it's hard to justify trading super speed, experimentation, super jump, leadership, stealth, or force of will for fly. Emps/healers do actually use fly quite a bit but not from the fly pool, they use the fly effect from sorcery.

 

Leadership(for the perception to see targets running stealth+stealth IO proc, impossible to play without perc in this point of the meta as everyone runs double stealth) and stealth pool (phase shift for escape) are both non-negotiable power pools at this point. That really just leaves two power pools to mess around with. You're usually stuck with going some form of super speed/experimentation with force of will/SJ. Super jump now gives double jump which is essentially jump pack and arguably way better than fly as you keep your forward momentum when attacking allowing you to stay on target better. Superspeed is good for hasten and staying mobile while facing slows/-jump. Experimentation gives you super speed and jaunt, the best evasion power in the game. Fly has no such benefits other than having high ground. The funny thing is, fly isn't even as good as super jump/double jump+arena jet pack at air combat.

 

Fly also has bad uptime which is your ability to stick to and attack a target. Group fly is incredibly slow, you will not be able to catch a super speeding/super jumping/jaunting target with group fly, the second you get them low they will jaunt/tp out of the draw distance and you have no way to keep up. Also floating in the air (after attacking for instance) makes it easier to target you in team scenarios.

 

TL;DR

• Can be used in combination with jaunt/tp to evade, downside is losing a key powerpool making you susceptible to -fly (stone blast/trick arrow will cripple you) you will be unkillable but you will never catch anyone either. Some people in zones don't mind playing like this though. If you want to base your playstyle solely around baiting other people into fights so you can attack while they are distracted go for it(I'm directing this towards people in general not you lol)
• Slower than other movement combinations
• Makes you easier to target
• Bad target uptime
• Group fly is far too slow, MMs biggest weakness is movement (pet move slow, MM relies on pets for BG mode for survivability thus MMs are essentially tied to their pet movement speed to move around. MMs have the worst uptime of any class in the game, even worse than melee.
• Better at handling -fly, still susceptible to it and when they are successfully -flied are completely crippled, no other movement ability is so crippled my a mechanic, especially in post-i13 pvp which is almost removed all meaningful mechanics aside from damage and healing. Pre i13 ss/sj etc were crippled by slows. Slows no longer matter, -fly still matters though.

 

edit: I didn't proofread any of this, hopefully it makes sense.

Edited April 11, 2022 by M3z

[Glacier Peak]

Very informative! Thank you for taking the time to write that up. Seeing the larger picture and not just the usability of Fly itself makes it easier to understand. Part current meta, part build priorities and not having spectacular enough other pool choices to justify not taking other movement powers. 

[M3z]

8v8s Starting now on Indom

 

Link to stream: https://www.twitch.tv/coh_m3z

Link to discord: https://discord.gg/ACfXPxK

[M3z]

How interested would be people be in a tutorial video that explains how to get into 8v8 arena including basic builds, strategies and how to play the builds in an 8v8 environment as well as explanations on how to make money fast to fund your builds (it's quite easy to turn 20 mil into a billion with just 20-60 mins in like 2-3 days and this can easily turn into much much more money the longer you stick with it).

 

If this post gets enough likes or replies or whatever I'll think about doing it but it's not gonna come to a shock to anyone that making vids is a massive effort and actually costs money (which after getting cancer I don't have much spare money anymore) so let me know. Reply/post/react if anyone would be interested in me working with other people and putting something like that together.

[Glacier Peak]

4 hours ago, M3z said:

How interested would be people be in a tutorial video that explains how to get into 8v8 arena including basic builds, strategies and how to play the builds in an 8v8 environment as well as explanations on how to make money fast to fund your builds (it's quite easy to turn 20 mil into a billion with just 20-60 mins in like 2-3 days and this can easily turn into much much more money the longer you stick with it).

 

If this post gets enough likes or replies or whatever I'll think about doing it but it's not gonna come to a shock to anyone that making vids is a massive effort and actually costs money (which after getting cancer I don't have much spare money anymore) so let me know. Reply/post/react if anyone would be interested in me working with other people and putting something like that together.

Do what you did with your accolade video back in 2019 and your fire farm tutorial video, and you gonna have a good reaction 👍 

[M3z]

Indom Kickball Tonight 9 PM EST! Everyone is invited! See you there.

[M3z]

Taco Tuesday starts now!

 

Stream link: https://www.twitch.tv/coh_m3z

[M3z]

9 PM EST Tonight, TACO Tuesday!

 

Link below for when the event goes live:

Stream link: https://www.twitch.tv/coh_m3z

[Outraged2]

I Am hoping for a similar pug kickball format arena on exelsior. are there any similar there? if not how do i create such an event?

[M3z]

2 hours ago, Outraged2 said:

I Am hoping for a similar pug kickball format arena on exelsior. are there any similar there? if not how do i create such an event?

Anyone can create the event if you can get enough people.

 

Also you get free transfer tokens that refresh every week. So moving over to indom to come play is pretty simple. In the future I may run events exclusively on Excelsior through my new community. The new community is still in the works but for now transferring to indom once every Tuesday should at least allow you to get in on the 8v8 action.

 

https://discord.gg/qfTYAufRt2