Triage Beacon / Spirit Tree

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

That just means you can't triple stack it. You can still use it in more fights at more locations.

 

Unless you are using it in say a farm.  Considering farmers don't move much, if at all, they'd have to cast it twice as often for the same end result.  And the cast time is a pretty harsh 3 seconds or so.  They'd probably consider it a nerf.

 

If more concessions were needed, I'd also be perfectly fine with making it not stackable from the same caster, period.  That'd also actually be a nerf according to a lot of people in this thread.

 

Anyway, all depends on some of the finer details on how it is done.    All I can say as it stands now I end up skipping it most of the time.  If I have room I'll try to fit spirit tree in specifically just because I think it looks cool.  Once in a long while I'll actually bother casting it, but usually to little effect beyond looking pretty.   Maybe they could just work on making triage beacon also look cooler. 😄

 

Edited January 20 by Riverdusk

[JayboH]

7 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

First time seeing this thread, but the recharge isn't that bad.  Any more and it is too OP. 

 

It's base recharge is 200s and lasts for 90s.  With max recharge, you can get that down to 40s.  That allows you (1 character) to have 2 out at once and doubling the regen buff (it does stack on itself from same caster).  Now, not everyone gets max recharge, but even my Traps Defender with Beacon recharge down to 62s can double stack them for ~30s.  When I cast Ageless, Beacon goes down to 50s Recharge with 40s of overlap, and if the battle still goes on, I am basically having 2 out perma - as one drops, I cast another to stack. 

 

Reducing the base recharge any more would allow for triple stacks, and that is WAY OP.  They would then have to also reduce the duration, and that is not beneficial either.  

 

So, the current recharge on the Beacon is fine, in my opinion.  

My only issue with this take is that it isn't realistic for most teamfights in actual play.  Unless it is some kind of an event/uberboss/tf with huge numbers of bosses pulled etc the idea that the same caster would stack 2 in the same stationary spot is unlikely.  Besides, you missed the original post:

 

"I think my main desire is to just have it available every fight or every other fight, non-stackable from the same caster.  300% regen is nothing to sneeze at for a 40 ft radius (enhanced, defender values on Triage.)  I would rather have a droppable click than a toggle as it is now, location-based rather than an aura, etc"

[JayboH]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Just because current teams can eat missions whole does not mean a power needs to be made to match that. Spirit Tree and Triage Beacon are fine. They serve their purpose. And if your team is devouring the opposition so fast that you think Spirit Tree or Triage Beacon are less than useful, then I have to wonder why you need to boost them since the team obviously doesn't need them.

 

These types will skip the powers entirely in their current state.

[JayboH]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

I checked my Mercenaries/Traps MM. Triage Beacon has a 95.15 second recharge with a 90 second duration, and I don't build for recharge focus on my characters. And yet, when I need it? It is there, ready to be used. Considering Triage Beacon is in a set with Force Field Generator (+DEF (ALL)), Acid Mortar (Toxic damage, -DEF, -RES), Seeker Drones (Disorient, -DAM, -ToHit, and -Perception), and Poison Trap (Mag 3 AoE hold, -Regen', -Recharge), I don't understand why it needs to be buffed.

 

My Plant Control Dominator? Has Spirit Tree at a 86.48 second recharge, and it is supplemented by Seeds of Confusion on a 24.25 second recharge enhanced up to a 88.47 second duration, among all the rest of the set. So I still don't see the need for improving Spirit Tree either.

 

I don't use Hasten. I don't focus on recharge. And I still don't understand the call to improve either considering the array of tools those sets have to go with those 2 powers.

 

Traps alone benefits massively from recharge.  Dominators often get huge benefits from massive recharge like permadom. 

[JayboH]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

That just means you can't triple stack it. You can still use it in more fights at more locations.

...again, someone didn't read the OP.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, JayboH said:

 

These types will skip the powers entirely in their current state.

Then they don't need it and trying to cater to them makes even less sense to me.

 

4 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Traps alone benefits massively from recharge.  Dominators often get huge benefits from massive recharge like permadom. 

I don't have permadom on any of my Dominators. Nor do I have a particularly high recharge on any of my characters. And yet those powers seem to work just fine, even when I am teamed.

 

3 minutes ago, JayboH said:

...again, someone didn't read the OP.

I read the OP. I just don't agree with it. With everything the sets those two powers are in brings for the player to leverage, a high rate of usage for those two powers doesn't make sense to me. (Edit: Besides, that last comment wasn't aimed at the OP. It was aimed at the person I was debating with. Though I still disagree with asking the devs to make those two powers available for every fight.)

Edited January 20 by Rudra

[Frozen Burn]

56 minutes ago, JayboH said:

My only issue with this take is that it isn't realistic for most teamfights in actual play.  Unless it is some kind of an event/uberboss/tf with huge numbers of bosses pulled etc the idea that the same caster would stack 2 in the same stationary spot is unlikely.  Besides, you missed the original post:

 

"I think my main desire is to just have it available every fight or every other fight, non-stackable from the same caster.  300% regen is nothing to sneeze at for a 40 ft radius (enhanced, defender values on Triage.)  I would rather have a droppable click than a toggle as it is now, location-based rather than an aura, etc"

 

Beacon and Tree are meant for longer fights - not short quick fights.  You don't need them for every fight.  Really, what is the boost going to do for short fights that last <10-15s?  Not much.  For short fights - you want reactive healing (Emp, Pain, Kin, etc).  For longer fights, the steady increased regen of Beacon and Tree really help and shine.

 

You state as an option for your main desire is to have it available every other fight at least - this is already doable with enough recharge.  And 300% regen is a decent boost for your tougher/longer fights, and then when you do have the really long fights and can stack a 2nd, you get 600% which is significant for any character, and a HUGE benefit for any regen, willpower, bio, etc characters.  

 

Again, chopping the recharge more, means cutting the duration down, as well as probably the amount of regen too to keep it balanced.  This would really make the powers less useful, and skippable.  

 

Theses powers are great and fine the way they are.  

[JayboH]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Then they don't need it and trying to cater to them makes even less sense to me.

 

Then you haven't been noticing how revamps usually go.  Powerhouse and the gang typically try to make all powers hurt to skip (except for Dark Pit) during overhauls.  The reason I mentioned people haven't been reading the OP is because stacking was already mentioned.  The OP also mentioned every other fight.

Edited January 20 by JayboH

[JayboH]

3 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

Beacon and Tree are meant for longer fights - not short quick fights.  You don't need them for every fight.  Really, what is the boost going to do for short fights that last <10-15s?  Not much.  For short fights - you want reactive healing (Emp, Pain, Kin, etc).  For longer fights, the steady increased regen of Beacon and Tree really help and shine.

 

You state as an option for your main desire is to have it available every other fight at least - this is already doable with enough recharge.  And 300% regen is a decent boost for your tougher/longer fights, and then when you do have the really long fights and can stack a 2nd, you get 600% which is significant for any character, and a HUGE benefit for any regen, willpower, bio, etc characters.  

 

Again, chopping the recharge more, means cutting the duration down, as well as probably the amount of regen too to keep it balanced.  This would really make the powers less useful, and skippable.  

 

Theses powers are great and fine the way they are.  

 

It's not an either/or scenario.  The strength doesn't have to budge.  Having it shorter duration when it can't be stacked also isn't a requirement.  Think of all the abilities in the game that increase regen (or heal, which is not the same thing - as it can wake from sleep on top of the burst diff) which are up multiple times every single fight.  I know that in a vacuum they can't directly be compared.  I also know some really want powers to be skippable on purpose for their builds and argue for it.

[Rudra]

8 hours ago, JayboH said:

 

It's not an either/or scenario.  The strength doesn't have to budge.  Having it shorter duration when it can't be stacked also isn't a requirement.  Think of all the abilities in the game that increase regen (or heal, which is not the same thing - as it can wake from sleep on top of the burst diff) which are up multiple times every single fight.  I know that in a vacuum they can't directly be compared.  I also know some really want powers to be skippable on purpose for their builds and argue for it.

Those heals that are up every fight? Even multiple times every fight? Give the target(s) a specific amount of HP immediately, that the enemies immediately resume cutting down until you heal them again. Spirit Tree and Triage Beacon? Keep healing (as an increase of regeneration rate) for a period of time regardless of any incoming damage to you and your allies after it has been triggered. (I can't currently think of any +regeneration powers that are up multiple times in a single fight.)

[JayboH]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Those heals that are up every fight? Even multiple times every fight? Give the target(s) a specific amount of HP immediately, that the enemies immediately resume cutting down until you heal them again. Spirit Tree and Triage Beacon? Keep healing (as an increase of regeneration rate) for a period of time regardless of any incoming damage to you and your allies after it has been triggered. (I can't currently think of any +regeneration powers that are up multiple times in a single fight.)

Please read my posts to receive answers to these earlier in the thread.

[Rudra]

37 minutes ago, JayboH said:

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Those heals that are up every fight? Even multiple times every fight? Give the target(s) a specific amount of HP immediately, that the enemies immediately resume cutting down until you heal them again. Spirit Tree and Triage Beacon? Keep healing (as an increase of regeneration rate) for a period of time regardless of any incoming damage to you and your allies after it has been triggered. (I can't currently think of any +regeneration powers that are up multiple times in a single fight.)

Please read my posts to receive answers to these earlier in the thread.

I looked. And I looked. And I looked. And you give no examples. And if you are referring to Pain Domination's Soothing Aura? That is a PvP effect. And I will not consider a PvP effect for a PvE discussion.

[JayboH]

25 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I looked. And I looked. And I looked. And you give no examples. And if you are referring to Pain Domination's Soothing Aura? That is a PvP effect. And I will not consider a PvP effect for a PvE discussion.

No.  I addressed frequency and stacking, and also mobilization and regen vs healing as healing actually breaks sleep and thus can't be considered.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, JayboH said:

No.  I addressed frequency and stacking, and also mobilization and regen vs healing as healing actually breaks sleep and thus can't be considered.

Okay, you've completely lost me. Every time I think you are saying one thing or commenting on something, you say no, that you are talking about something else. So just consider me no longer part of this conversation. My last comment is I oppose the OP. And I will leave it at that.

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I looked. And I looked. And I looked. And you give no examples. And if you are referring to Pain Domination's Soothing Aura? That is a PvP effect. And I will not consider a PvP effect for a PvE discussion.

 

Soothing aura on a MM does give +regen (+200% base) even in PvE.  For some reason they changed it from healing tics to regen for MM's specifically. 

 

Edit: And they renamed it to suppress pain, forgot that part.

Edited January 21 by Riverdusk

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Soothing aura on a MM does give +regen (+200% base) even in PvE.  For some reason they changed it from healing tics to regen for MM's specifically. 

 

Edit: And they renamed it to suppress pain, forgot that part.

Thanks for the clarification/correction.

 

Edited January 21 by Rudra
Edited to add "/correction".

[JayboH]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Okay, you've completely lost me.

You oppose having a non-stackable immobile/droppable non-toggle regen patch that is up every other fight (all the way up to every fight) with the same max strength it currently has (using defender numbers.)  We'll go on from there.