Ranged and Melee Damage -- What good is the distinction?

[Completist]

I know it sounds crazy, but why can't Defenders choose Melee powers? Would a Scrapper with Assault Rifle break the game?

AT damage scales already exist to 'balance' ATs to ranged and melee damage. Sentinel's been around for years and its inherent power still doesn't feel core; wouldn't it be easier to just add more options to existing ATs? Seems like a modest proposal to me. 

 

Why not proliferate Melee damage to Ranged ATs and vice versa?

 

OK it's a huge paradigm shift but I'm still going to put it out there for discussion. 

Ranged ATs are squishy, you say? Depends on the powerset. There are plenty of Support sets that would be really rad to pair with Kicky Punchy. And this way you don't have to come up with a whole new AT. Melee ATs would be too safe? They also have much worse damage to compensate. 

 

Too far gone from the CoH formula? ... That one I can't really argue with, but after all these years this is the next logical step for power proliferation. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Completist

[Rudra]

If I recall correctly, the beta version of the game worked like this. It didn't work because everyone made "flying mage tanks". Which is what Sentinels basically are, but they do so with range handicaps.

 

Edit: Also, melee does better base damage than ranged. Ranged gets less damage because they get to stand off and fight.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Rudra

[Completist]

On 8/4/2022 at 10:52 PM, Rudra said:

It didn't work because everyone made "flying mage tanks". Which is what Sentinels basically are, but they do so with range handicaps.

 

Also, melee does better base damage than ranged. Ranged gets less damage because they get to stand off and fight.

That is a reasonable excuse for why Melee ATs, especially Tanks shouldn't have ranged attacks. But is there a reason to disallow Defenders and Corruptors (and Blasters, perhaps) from having access to Melee sets?

 

I want to buff my friends and punch people. (To satisfy my demands) is it necessary to come up with a new AT? Or could we just super-proliferate some melee sets into previously Ranged-only ATs?

[Rudra]

Blasters already get melee attacks. Every Blaster secondary as far as I know has 3 melee attacks. Otherwise? Yes, there would need to be a new AT to balance how that would work.

[SwitchFade]

2 hours ago, Completist said:

That is a reasonable excuse for why Melee ATs, especially Tanks shouldn't have ranged attacks. But is there a reason to disallow Defenders and Corruptors (and Blasters, perhaps) from having access to Melee sets?

 

I want to buff my friends and punch people. (To satisfy my demands) is it necessary to come up with a new AT? Or could we just super-proliferate some melee sets into previously Ranged-only ATs?

Stand in melee and all your ranged attacks are melee.

 

Blapper do it all the time.

[Rudra]

Actually, with the Fighting Pool, all ranged only ATs can fight in melee. Boxing, Kick, and Crosspunch.

[Luminara]

On 8/4/2022 at 11:40 PM, Completist said:

Why not proliferate Melee damage to Ranged ATs and vice versa?

 

You're referring to defenders and corruptors, I presume, since blasters and dominators have melee attacks in their secondary sets.  The answer would be, because it's unlikely that it would appeal to many players.  0.55 (defender) and 0.75 (corruptor) are low Melee Damage modifier numbers, and the relevant archetypes have low HP pools and almost no status protection options in their bag of tricks, so the end result is a slow crawl up a steep hill, a whole lot of setting things up with the "right" Support set and a whole lot of trying to knock them down with weak attacks.

I built and played a Kin/pool melee attacks defender back in Issue 5.  "Sub-optimal" doesn't come close to describing the experience.  Mez was a constant issue (not dangerous, as everything was debuffed, just immensely frustrating), damage output was low even with Thunder Strike (Elec APP) and saturated Fulcrum Shift, and every attack had to be followed by a debuff to keep the character upright, so it was even slower.  And despite posting a guide and detailed analysis, including ways to improve on my approach, I never met a single person who attempted what I did.  It didn't even have a tenth as many readers as my TA or Archery guides.  Most people just don't want to play a bad combo, and Support/Melee Damage or Melee Damage/Support is bad.

 

Having said that, I think it could be workable for corruptors, given their higher Melee Damage modifier and Scourge, but they'd be better served by Assault sets than "pure" Melee Damage sets.  I doubt any development team would just throw Assault sets or Melee Damage sets into the pile for them, though.  Giving them access to either, or both, when all of the existing corruptors use Ranged Damage sets would generate as much backlash as replacing Ranged Damage with Assault or Melee Damage.  This really is an idea best served by a new archetype.

 

It does work with controllers.  I have a 50+3 Grav/TA/Stone that only plays in melee, and it's glorious.  Wormhole/Cross Punch/Fissure/Cross Punch/Seismic Smash, that's the entire attack chain.  It's effective for a controller because Containment effectively bumps their Melee Damage modifier from 0.55 to 1.1.  If you're really hot and bothered for melee madness on a Support archetype, try a controller.

[BrandX]

13 hours ago, Completist said:

That is a reasonable excuse for why Melee ATs, especially Tanks shouldn't have ranged attacks. But is there a reason to disallow Defenders and Corruptors (and Blasters, perhaps) from having access to Melee sets?

 

I want to buff my friends and punch people. (To satisfy my demands) is it necessary to come up with a new AT? Or could we just super-proliferate some melee sets into previously Ranged-only ATs?

 

Make a Scrapper with the Leadership Pool and you just pulled off what you asked for.  Also, if you pick the right Powersets, you can buff your friends more and/or debuff enemies.

 

Shield Scrapper buffs your friends and debuffs enemies.

 

Bio Armor will debuff enemies.

 

Willpower will debuff enemies.

 

🙂