Forcefield feedback on the changes and request/suggestion

[Zappalina]

I used dispersion bubble on teams to keep the bad guys off of team mates and myself that were usually playing in the back due to being ranged characters, melee usually go up front into groups.  I would also use it on teams where there wasn't melee on it, or not very much melee.  I tested out the way dispersion bubble is now and have level 46 when I am on my lvl 50+ corrupter in PI being able to sporadically hit (DE sardonyx ranged shards) my character.  The bubble also didn't knock them down/back often.

I would use Force bubble in things like the LGTF in keeping the Rikti off of team mates, using it in the Miss Liberty TF to keep again the bad guys off of team mates especially inside the Tree map or the Killing the AV map or keeping the archanos repairmen off of near LR during the end, or during the spawning of the Aeon groups in the beginning or to pin bad guys in corners away from the team mates.

I was talking with a friend about this who mentioned that a tank can keep the bad guys off a team, what I have found is this isn't the case in the teams I've played on and most times the tank runs ahead grabbing aggro and rarely looks back.  Not everyone plays like that, but there are quite a few that do and I think that the majority does.  In my opinion (and it could be wrong and you don't have to like it and I'm okay with that) the game shouldn't be geared for focus on melee, supporting melee and making sure melee lives.  I feel like this change is what this was about.  I think that the considerations for ranged players isn't there. 

I have the opinion that the focus is on let's +defense up - at higher levels incarnate powers, and builds usually have +defense built into them with ios as well. What I needed from Force bubble and had, is to keep the bad guys off of the people who don't play melee and off my character if needed which enabled me to play my ranged attack powers effectively and add to the team dps.

What was received in the changes was okay, I would rather see this version having it travel with a character as teams usually going through kill bad guys so quickly. The recharge on it is okay.

• I would like to see the option to choose the old force bubble in the list of FF powers. My request suggestion - is offer that in the future? (soon).

 

[Sarn]

Much of this was discussed in the Beta forum, didn't really get very far, unfortunately. 

[Psyonico]

The new bubble should act the same as old Force Bubble PROVIDED you don't slot a KB->KD in it.  If you do, the force bubble repel is disabled.

[PoptartsNinja]

It functions "the same" but it's a different tool.

 

The size of the old Force Bubble was its strength, the buffed version of Repulsion Field doesn't really directly compare. It's more like a Hurricane without the useful ToHit debuff.

[Zappalina]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:18 PM, Psyonico said:

The new bubble should act the same as old Force Bubble PROVIDED you don't slot a KB->KD in it.  If you do, the force bubble repel is disabled.

Oh, then it maybe possible that it isn't doing that at least not consistently on those level 46 DE there was a boulder and a sardonyx in PI that I mentioned above (just the sardonyx).  I will check it out further the next time I have time to do that.  Maybe it's possible that DE have some kind of protection as well, I do not have kb2kd in it. Thank you all for the info.

[Zappalina]

Force Bubble (now Dampening Bubble)

• Now a Click power with 90s rech, and 5.2 Endurance cost.
• Summons a Pseudopet at your location that casts a 55ft radius Dampening Bubble for 45s.

• Applies +Special Resistance to yourself and allies (Defender Values):

  • 43.25% res to ToHit, Accuracy, Perception, Slow, Recharge, and Regeneration debuffs

  • 21.63% res to Defense Debuffs. This is enhanceable with Defense enhancements.

• Applies -Special to a max of 16 enemies inside the field:

  • -43.25% ToHit, Slow, Perception, Regeneration

  • -23.63% Defense

• The Dampening Bubble will move to your location if summoned again during it's duration.

The jpg if viewable is without moving my character after summoning the new Force Bubble, these are level 47 DE in Peregrine Island.  If you look in the top right you can see what powers this character has active under the Health/XP/Stamina bar.  Dispersion bubble is the only thing that is providing any kind of 'repel' and pushing them back. (figured that out this evening).

Previously the DE wouldn't have been able to get this close to my character with Force Bubble.  This time I noticed on a count of 3 they are able to walk up this close and then get forced back by dispersion bubble. As in 1, 2, 3 (walk this close) then they get pushed back by dispersion bubble.   I think with no repel being in the force bubble that this how it's intended to work?   So it makes sense why the Sardonyx and ranged villains are able to hit my character now, they're well within range of those attack type.

 

• I would still proffer the suggestion of being able to choose the ability to have the old Force Bubble be a type of power that can be chosen for the Force field powers.

   

#1 DE with Force Bubble activated below

[Psyonico]

what you want isn't Dampening Bubble, it's Repulsion Field

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.force_field.repulsion_field&at=defender

[Wavicle]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:42 PM, PoptartsNinja said:

It functions "the same" but it's a different tool.

 

The size of the old Force Bubble was its strength, the buffed version of Repulsion Field doesn't really directly compare. It's more like a Hurricane without the useful ToHit debuff.

Counterpoint:

 

The size of the old Force Bubble was its weakness. It made it almost completely unusable in most team situations.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Wavicle

[Zappalina]

On 10/22/2022 at 3:15 AM, Wavicle said:

Counterpoint:

 

The size of the old Force Bubble was its weakness. It made it almost completely unusable in most team situations.

Maybe for your style of team play.  However not everyone, *just one* of several examples - useful in Crey building maps (manticore task force) pinning crey up against the walls. 

 

[Zappalina]

On 10/22/2022 at 2:35 AM, Psyonico said:

what you want isn't Dampening Bubble, it's Repulsion Field

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.force_field.repulsion_field&at=defender

Who are you writing to?

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Zappalina said:

Maybe for your style of team play.  However not everyone, *just one* of several examples - useful in Crey building maps (manticore task force) pinning crey up against the walls. 

 

it still works for that

[Zappalina]

On 10/23/2022 at 9:20 PM, Wavicle said:

it still works for that

Force bubble?

 

Or are you talking about repulsion field which brings me into range of anything like a crey with a ranged power? where they can run in even with it still on?

[Rudra]

I'm confused. I checked Cox Masterminds, Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers for Force Bubble and didn't see it. So I checked City of Data for Force Bubble, and it only turns up as a Midnight Masters assist power. I don't play Force Field characters, so please enlighten me. What is Force Bubble?

 

The OP references Dispersion Bubble which according to City of Data provides increased defense for the team and mez protection. No reference to KB or repel. Then the OP switches from Dispersion Bubble to Force Bubble which does not seem to be a player available power.

 

Since I refuse to use Force Field, I have no stake in this discussion. However, it would be nice to at least be able to follow along.

[roleki]

40 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm confused. I checked Cox Masterminds, Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers for Force Bubble and didn't see it. So I checked City of Data for Force Bubble, and it only turns up as a Midnight Masters assist power. I don't play Force Field characters, so please enlighten me. What is Force Bubble?

 

The OP references Dispersion Bubble which according to City of Data provides increased defense for the team and mez protection. No reference to KB or repel. Then the OP switches from Dispersion Bubble to Force Bubble which does not seem to be a player available power.

 

Since I refuse to use Force Field, I have no stake in this discussion. However, it would be nice to at least be able to follow along.

 

Don't blame you for being a little askew on this; someone in this thread keeps mixing up Dispersion Bubble and Force Bubble, and it's driving me bonkers, too.

 

Dispersion Bubble is still around, it's the giant bubble that provides anyone within it +Def and some mez protection.  

 

Force Bubble is the old T9 in Force Field.  It was a toggle with a GIGANTIC AoE that acted as... a Force Bubble - anything that came in contact with it got 'forced' out of the way by the contour of the bubble, using the Repel effect.  This was an extremely useful power in numerous situations.  As of Page 5, Force Bubble got shunted into Repulsion Field. 

 

Repulsion Field used to be a small AoE toggle that would cause any enemy that ran into it to be repelled violently away, at a pretty hefty cost of endurance per collision.  Since this behavior often caused mobs to scatter across the screen like popcorn, it was largely a situational power.  However, when slotted with the Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown enhancement, Repulsion Field became incredibly useful as a survival tool - instead of flying across the screen, enemies dropped at your feet, keeping them in your (and you allies') AoEs.  Smart people who took Repulsion Field would slot it thusly and leave it on all the time.

 

When Force Bubble and Repulsion Field were combined, the AoE of Force Bubble was dropped from whatever it was (55?) to 25ft.  So if you used to turn on Repulsion Field to block an aperture and only allow a small number of enemies to trickle through, now when you go to do so, the enemies in the space beyond the aperture are being repelled away from the aperture, but any that DO make it to you will be knocked down back.  Unless...

If you have the Knockback to Knockdown enhancement slotted in Nu Repulsion Field, the Repulsion Field toggle still knocks down enemies, but Force Bubble's repel effect is ignored by mobs completely.  So as a player, where you weren't required to take or forego one or an another, now you're either stuck with the shitty KB version of Repulsion Field and get a nerfed-but-maybe-still-useful version of Force Bubble, or you get the decent version of Repulsion Field and lose access to Force Bubble altogether, unless someone comes along with a shitload of enhancement unslotters or a big pile of inf that allows you to fund a second build.  But I know that's not going to happen, because when P5 hit nobody gave affected players a KB:KD enhancement if they wanted to opt out of Force Bubble, so they had to pony up the 3M or so those enhancements were going for (or conversely, have to unslot a KB:KD, and lose sunk costs and a couple hundred thousand in AH fees).

 

I won't ask why you refuse to play a FF character, but if you ever relent, I encourage you to roll a Fire/FF controller, as that is probably one of the most fun-to-play character combos in the game.

Edited October 26, 2022 by roleki
Oops, said 'down' when I meant 'back'

[Wavicle]

I definitely understand how someone who liked the old Force Bubble could find the new Repulsion Field frustrating, but as someone who found the old Force Bubble basically useless I really like having the smaller radius.

[Rudra]

42 minutes ago, roleki said:

 

Don't blame you for being a little askew on this; someone in this thread keeps mixing up Dispersion Bubble and Force Bubble, and it's driving me bonkers, too.

 

Dispersion Bubble is still around, it's the giant bubble that provides anyone within it +Def and some mez protection.  

 

Force Bubble is the old T9 in Force Field.  It was a toggle with a GIGANTIC AoE that acted as... a Force Bubble - anything that came in contact with it got 'forced' out of the way by the contour of the bubble, using the Repel effect.  This was an extremely useful power in numerous situations.  As of Page 5, Force Bubble got shunted into Repulsion Field. 

 

Repulsion Field used to be a small AoE toggle that would cause any enemy that ran into it to be repelled violently away, at a pretty hefty cost of endurance per collision.  Since this behavior often caused mobs to scatter across the screen like popcorn, it was largely a situational power.  However, when slotted with the Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown enhancement, Repulsion Field became incredibly useful as a survival tool - instead of flying across the screen, enemies dropped at your feet, keeping them in your (and you allies') AoEs.  Smart people who took Repulsion Field would slot it thusly and leave it on all the time.

 

When Force Bubble and Repulsion Field were combined, the AoE of Force Bubble was dropped from whatever it was (55?) to 25ft.  So if you used to turn on Repulsion Field to block an aperture and only allow a small number of enemies to trickle through, now when you go to do so, the enemies in the space beyond the aperture are being repelled away from the aperture, but any that DO make it to you will be knocked down back.  Unless...

If you have the Knockback to Knockdown enhancement slotted in Nu Repulsion Field, the Repulsion Field toggle still knocks down enemies, but Force Bubble's repel effect is ignored by mobs completely.  So as a player, where you weren't required to take or forego one or an another, now you're either stuck with the shitty KB version of Repulsion Field and get a nerfed-but-maybe-still-useful version of Force Bubble, or you get the decent version of Repulsion Field and lose access to Force Bubble altogether, unless someone comes along with a shitload of enhancement unslotters or a big pile of inf that allows you to fund a second build.  But I know that's not going to happen, because when P5 hit nobody gave affected players a KB:KD enhancement if they wanted to opt out of Force Bubble, so they had to pony up the 3M or so those enhancements were going for (or conversely, have to unslot a KB:KD, and lose sunk costs and a couple hundred thousand in AH fees).

 

I won't ask why you refuse to play a FF character, but if you ever relent, I encourage you to roll a Fire/FF controller, as that is probably one of the most fun-to-play character combos in the game.

Thanks for the explanation. Greatly appreciated.

[PoptartsNinja]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

However, when slotted with the Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown enhancement, Repulsion Field became incredibly useful as a survival tool - instead of flying across the screen, enemies dropped at your feet, keeping them in your (and you allies') AoEs.  Smart people who took Repulsion Field would slot it thusly and leave it on all the time.

 

This is not entirely true, at least on the Defender version (it could be different on Controllers, I know Controller Detention Field has a higher magnitude than the Defender version so Repulsion Field might've converted differently). When a KB to KD was slotted into the Defender version of the old Repulsion Field, the Knockback aura got reduced from Mag 8-ish to Magnitude 0.018 rather than the typical 0.67. This means it would trigger knockback attempts (and burn 1% of your max end) every 2-3 seconds but most enemies would be unaffected until 10-15 seconds passed and it racked up enough magnitude to score a knockdown, after which it would usually score 2-3 knockdowns then reset and have to start accruing magnitude again.

 

It's a more usable power now, it's basically Hurricane without a debuff component and a more forceful knockback.

Edited October 26, 2022 by PoptartsNinja