Bringing Back Prestige

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

It's not another currency. You can't buy anything with prestige as proposed in the OP. It is a storage mechanism. The name is strictly to differentiate between the stored inf' and the character possessed inf'. For all intents and purposes, it just influence/infamy/information presented in a more or less generic form (hence the name change) in a separate location from your characters that can be added to or withdrawn by the characters.

In terms of game mechanics?  YES it IS another "currency".
Simply because it's a DERIVATIVE of another currency doesn't mean it's not a currency.

And if they can create currency storage in a base, there's no reason for conversion.
Just make it Inf storage from the get go.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

In terms of game mechanics?  YES it IS another "currency".
Simply because it's a DERIVATIVE of another currency doesn't mean it's not a currency.

And if they can create currency storage in a base, there's no reason for conversion.
Just make it Inf storage from the get go.

If it cannot be used to purchase anything, it is not a currency. PAPs are currencies. They can be used to buy things. Merits are currencies, they can be used to buy things. Prestige as described in the OP is not a medium of exchange. "Prestige" is just a name. You can't take prestige as described in the OP and purchase anything. At all. Anywhere, anyhow, anyway. It is a generic repository where influence, infamy, and information can be stored. They are not converted, they are stored under a generic name appropriate for a SG. You don't have any conversion rates to deposit or withdraw. You want to put 1,000,000,000,000 influence or infamy or information in it? Go ahead, It is a straight dump into the pool. You want to take out 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 influence or infamy or information from it? Go right ahead. It is a straight withdrawal. No fees. No 100:1 or any other conversions. Prestige is just a name that can be used to encompass the different names for inf'. It is inf' storage. That's all it is. With the ability to directly deposit said inf' without having to run back to the base to do so.

 

Edit: Saying the OP in terms of game mechanics is a currency because it is intended to facilitate the transfer of inf' between characters is like saying the in-game e-mail is a currency because it does the same thing. (And yes, the e-mail system does do the same thing as the OP, just much more clunky than the OP and requiring more steps to do so.) The name could be Transfer or Storage or Cowbell or anything else. I chose the name Prestige. And that is all it is. Prestige in this case is a means of storing and transferring funds. It is not currency.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rudra

[Hyperstrike]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If it cannot be used to purchase anything, it is not a currency. PAPs are currencies. They can be used to buy things. Merits are currencies, they can be used to buy things. Prestige as described in the OP is not a medium of exchange. "Prestige" is just a name. You can't take prestige as described in the OP and purchase anything. At all. Anywhere, anyhow, anyway. It is a generic repository where influence, infamy, and information can be stored. They are not converted, they are stored under a generic name appropriate for a SG. You don't have any conversion rates to deposit or withdraw. You want to put 1,000,000,000,000 influence or infamy or information in it? Go ahead, It is a straight dump into the pool. You want to take out 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 influence or infamy or information from it? Go right ahead. It is a straight withdrawal. No fees. No 100:1 or any other conversions. Prestige is just a name that can be used to encompass the different names for inf'. It is inf' storage. That's all it is. With the ability to directly deposit said inf' without having to run back to the base to do so.

 

Edit: Saying the OP in terms of game mechanics is a currency because it is intended to facilitate the transfer of inf' between characters is like saying the in-game e-mail is a currency bacuse it does the same thing. (And yes, the e-mail system does do the same thing as the OP, just much more clunky than the OP and requiring more steps to do so.) The name could be Transfer or Storage or Cowbell or anything else. I chose the name Prestige. And that is all it is. Prestige in this case is a means of storing and transferring funds. It is not currency.

Is a Transcendant merit a form of currency?
Hint: YES
You can't buy anything with them either.,

You can't even really buy anything with straight up Astrals either.

THEY ARE STILL FORMS OF CURRENCY.

You can say "no no no no no" until you're blue in the face.

In the end YOU ARE INCORRECT.

 

They're a store of value.

Yes, it may need conversion to realize the value.  But it's still there.

With that, I'm done with this discussion.

Thanks for playing.

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Is a Transcendant merit a form of currency?
Hint: YES
You can't buy anything with them either.,

You can't even really buy anything with straight up Astrals either.

THEY ARE STILL FORMS OF CURRENCY.

You can say "no no no no no" until you're blue in the face.

In the end YOU ARE INCORRECT.

 

They're a store of value.

Yes, it may need conversion to realize the value.  But it's still there.

With that, I'm done with this discussion.

Thanks for playing.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/currency

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/currency

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/currency

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Transcendent_Merit_Salvage

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Astral_Merit_Salvage

 

Transcendent merits are a special salvage you can purchase to send to another character on the same account who can then sell it back to get the empyrean merits from it. Astral merits are drops that are salvage and can be converted into threads or be used to purchase items from Luna. That makes them currency. Prestige in the OP is not a conversion into something else. It is strictly an inf' storage and transfer device. I could have called it Inf' (edit: or Stored Inf') and we wouldn't be having this argument.

 

Edit: And if that is the source of your problem with the OP, then let's just call it Stored Inf' instead of Prestige.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/currency

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/currency

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/currency

So wouldn't the new use of Prestige be a medium of exchange, i.e. a currency?  I exchange my inf for prestige, which I or someone else can convert back to the appropriate form of inf to buy stuff with at some later date?

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, biostem said:

So wouldn't the new use of Prestige be a medium of exchange, i.e. a currency?  I exchange my inf for prestige, which I or someone else can convert back to the appropriate form of inf to buy stuff with at some later date?

No, because you are not actually exchanging anything. As I already said, the name could be changed to Stored Inf' or just Inf' and it wouldn't change a thing. Then the OP would read as 'set the percentage of your inf' that goes into the shared pool' instead of as prestige. I'm just using the name of the old currency as the name of the storage mechanic because "inf'" has three different meanings. It is an abbreviation of three different names that are all the same currency. Same thing with my proposed prestige. There is no actual conversion. It is strictly an influence/infamy/information dump and withdrawal mechanic. Nothing is changed. Nothing is converted. It is just automatically placed in the central inf' storage at a player chosen rate depending on how much inf' that player may want to keep on that character as opposed to being placed in the central pool. Prestige is just another name that is being used to encompass the three different names of the same currency. That's it. Nothing else. You don't need to sell your inf' to place it in the storage. You don't need to buy it to get it out.

 

Let's use the transcendent merits as an example. Your character has to go to the NPC that has those merits and buy it from them at a cost of 50 empyrean merits. Then that character has to e-mail the merit to the other character who claims it from the e-mail, goes to the NPC, and sells it back for the 50 merits. That is a series of transcations. In the OP, you would have the ability to directly dump your inf' into a central location that your other characters could then access to get inf' any time they want or need. That is the difference. There is no conversion involved, it is strictly an influence/infamy/information storage point accessible by all characters in the SG for both storage and retrieval.

 

Edit: It is no more a conversion than when you change alignment from hero to villain or vice versa. Suddenly your influence is now infamy or your infamy is now influence. Did you convert anything? No. The game simply changed the name to reflect the different alignment. And that is all prestige is in the OP. Just another name change to mark where the inf' currently is. You can't withdraw any prestige. You can't use it to buy anything. It is simply the name of the storage mechanic.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, because you are not actually exchanging anything. As I already said,

Inf -> Prestige -> Inf ****IS**** an exchange.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

Inf -> Prestige -> Inf ****IS**** an exchange.

So you are saying that influence -> infamy is an exchange? It's a name change. If the name is what everyone is so hung up on, like I said 4 posts up, then just change the name from prestige to stored inf'. It's just a name. I'm fine with using a different name.

 

Edit: The point of the name change to prestige is because while the influence or infamy or information is held in the SG base, it is not aligned with heroes/vigilantes (influence), villains/rogues (infamy), or Praetorians (information). It is unaligned while in storage. That is the whole point of using the prestige name.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to add "on".

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So you are saying that influence -> infamy is an exchange? It's a name change. If the name is what everyone is so hung up, like I said 4 posts up, then just change the name from prestige to stored inf'. It's just a name. I'm fine with using a different name.

If we assume that there were no fees, would converting from USD to Canadian Dollars be an exchange?  It's not a perfect example, but if we assumed Canadian merchants only accepted CAD and US ones only accepted USD, then it's the same.  No Villain vendor accepts Influence.  No Hero vendor accepts Infamy.  Using Null to quickly switch sides does not reflect the normal/intended way in which ones switches sides, which includes an in-game explanation as to how that currency gets, you got it, "exchanged" from one to the other.

Edited March 14, 2023 by biostem

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 3/13/2023 at 3:27 PM, Hyperstrike said:

I swear (ALL THE DAMN TIME!).  I'm not THAT creepy!

 

 

that's not what she said! 🤣

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

If we assume that there were no fees, would converting from USD to Canadian Dollars be an exchange?  It's not a perfect example, but if we assumed Canadian merchants only accepted CAD and US ones only accepted USD, then it's the same.  No Villain vendor accepts Influence.  No Hero vendor accepts Infamy.  Using Null to quickly switch sides does not reflect the normal/intended way in which ones switches sides, which includes an in-game explanation as to how that currency gets, you got it, "exchanged" from one to the other.

The problem with that comparison is that if you have LOTS of infamy and you undergo the process of becoming a villain, you do not automatically have lots of influence after you finish changing sides. You would need to start over and build up your influence, which would start to see your infamy decrease. Going from hero to villain? Same thing. You lose your influence and start building up infamy instead.

 

Edit: However, since it is a single mechanic with different names, no such loss occurs. Vendors in Praetoria, the Rogue Isles, and Paragon City accept the currency of inf'. They just won't talk to characters of the wrong alignment.

 

Look, we have gotten seriously off the rails off the topic of the OP. And all because of a name. I've already stated I am fine with changing the name to stored inf'. And yet, arguments are being presented to make the name something it is not. A vessel for central storage of inf'. Why is the name such a big deal that even when I agree to a name change to INF, people are still arguing about prestige?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The problem with that comparison is that if you have LOTS of infamy and you undergo the process of becoming a villain, you do not automatically have lots of influence after you finish changing sides. You would need to start over and build up your influence, which would start to see your infamy decrease. Going from hero to villain? Same thing. You lose your influence and start building up infamy instead.

That's just your rationale for how you think it would work, but obviously the game treats the process of going from being a hero to a villain, (or visa-versa), as making you just as heroic as you were villainous or just as villainous as you were heroic - i.e. your reputation precedes you.

 

Either way, there are plenty of ways of getting info to your friends and SG-mates already...

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

If we assume that there were no fees, would converting from USD to Canadian Dollars be an exchange?  It's not a perfect example, but if we assumed Canadian merchants only accepted CAD and US ones only accepted USD, then it's the same.  No Villain vendor accepts Influence.  No Hero vendor accepts Infamy.  Using Null to quickly switch sides does not reflect the normal/intended way in which ones switches sides, which includes an in-game explanation as to how that currency gets, you got it, "exchanged" from one to the other.

Actually, to continue my previous post here since you already responded to it, I just logged on a vigilante character and went to Sharkhead Isle where I had absolutely no problems spending my influence at a red side vendor. So your statement is in error.

 

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

That's just your rationale for how you think it would work, but obviously the game treats the process of going from being a hero to a villain, (or visa-versa), as making you just as heroic as you were villainous or just as villainous as you were heroic - i.e. your reputation precedes you.

 

Either way, there are plenty of ways of getting info to your friends and SG-mates already...

 

And if you look back at the previous page, I already list 8 different ways to send inf' to your alts and friends. I am well aware that other options exist. However, as I state in options 7 and 8, having a central storage option would greatly simplify things for players with large numbers of alts rather than have to log on every alt to check to see if they have any inf' to send.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Actually, to continue my previous post here since you already responded to it, I just logged on a vigilante character and went to Sharkhead Isle where I had absolutely no problems spending my influence at a red side vendor. So your statement is in error.

I've notified Arachnos agents, who should be questioning that merchant any moment.  😉  So if infamy and influence can be spent interchangeably, then there's no reason to store them as prestige.

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

I've notified Arachnos agents, who should be questioning that merchant any moment.  😉  So if infamy and influence can be spent interchangeably, then there's no reason to store them as prestige.

*sigh* That is the point. Influence, infamy, and information are just names for a single shared mechanic. Prestige or stored inf' would also just be a name. It serves no other purpose than to be a name for the "not currently held by any character" store of influence/infamy/information. I don't know how many times I have to say this, I am fine with it being called Stored Inf'. Or whatever other name makes players most comfortable.

 

Edit: I get that some people are against the idea of a central storage for inf'. I don't understand why since some of those people are the same ones calling for inf' to be account-wide rather than character held. However, they should argue about the proposition of a central storage rather than getting bogged down and upset over a name. This is simply a quality of life thing that I do not expect any dev to actually bother with but would make game life so much easier for players with large numbers of alts.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove "t" form "no".

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

*sigh* That is the point. Influence, infamy, and information are just names for a single shared mechanic. Prestige or stored inf' would also just be a name. It serves no other purpose than to be a name for the "not currently held by any character" store of influence/infamy/information. I don't know how many times I have to say this, I am fine with it being called Stored Inf'. Or whatever other name makes players most comfortable.

 

Edit: I get that some people are against the idea of a central storage for inf'. I don't understand why since some of those people are the same ones calling for inf' to be account-wide rather than character held. However, they should argue about the proposition of a central storage rather than getting bogged down and upset over a name. This is simply a quality of life thing that I do not expect any dev to actually bother with but would make game life so much easier for players with large numbers of alts.

Correct, Inf, Inf and Inf are all the same thing with interchangeable labels.

PRESTIGE is NOT.
It's another stat with it's own extant (if disabled) system in the game.

My problem is NOT about shuffling your virtual pennies around.
My problem is you're asking the devs to dig into a system that was disabled FOR A REASON and "magically" repurpose it completely.
Without running into issues with legacy code.
All for a system that's already handled via the mail system.
You just want a better way of tracking.

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

Correct, Inf, Inf and Inf are all the same thing with interchangeable labels.

PRESTIGE is NOT.
It's another stat with it's own extant (if disabled) system in the game.

My problem is NOT about shuffling your virtual pennies around.
My problem is you're asking the devs to dig into a system that was disabled FOR A REASON and "magically" repurpose it completely.
Without running into issues with legacy code.
All for a system that's already handled via the mail system.
You just want a better way of tracking.

No, I am not. Re-read the OP. Read the posts I've made in this thread. Nothing in this thread, nothing in the OP, has anything to do with legacy prestige. Prestige from Live is dead. I want it to stay dead. No disabled system is being re-activated, re-purposed, or re-anything. At all. I took the name. It's just a name. Just like influence, infamy, and information are just different names for the same thing. The name of inf' not currently being held by a character, thus not having the associated alignment name, can be anything. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I am not trying to bring back the prestige system we had on Live. I am not using that system in any way, shape, or form for the OP. The OP is just about giving players the ability to put their inf' into a pooled location without having to type out their globals into an e-mail address box or having to run to a contact or interactable object that lets them dump their inf' to use (edit: which doesn't even exist yet), so their alts or other players in their SG can be able to access and use it if and when needed. Please stop arguing like the name "prestige" (edit: as used in the OP) has anything to do with the disabled legacy system.

 

35 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

You just want a better way of tracking.

Yes! That is what the OP basically is. I only have about 5 pages of characters to log on to find who has what to send to who needs what. Most of which have 0 inf' because I keep grabbing what they have to send to other alts, and which character has any amount to send is constantly changing. Others have much, much more. The OP would make sharing their inf so much easier than the current options. That is what the OP is about. You are correct. That is entirely what the OP is about. A quality of life change. No power creep. No bringing back hated, legacy systems or mechanics. Just a collective pool of inf'. Called whatever people are comfortable with calling it. I just happened to have chosen the name "prestige".

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rudra

[Hyperstrike]

31 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, I am not. Re-read the OP. Read the posts I've made in this thread. Nothing in this thread, nothing in the OP, has anything to do with legacy prestige. Prestige from Live is dead. I want it to stay dead. No disabled system is being re-activated, re-purposed, or re-anything. At all. I took the name. It's just a name. Just like influence, infamy, and information are just different names for the same thing. The name of inf' not currently being held by a character, thus not having the associated alignment name, can be anything. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I am not trying to bring back the prestige system we had on Live. I am not using that system in any way, shape, or form for the OP. The OP is just about giving players the ability to put their inf' into a pooled location without having to type out their globals into an e-mail address box or having to run to a contact or interactable object that lets them dump their inf' to use (edit: which doesn't even exist yet), so their alts or other players in their SG can be able to access and use it if and when needed. Please stop arguing like the name "prestige" (edit: as used in the OP) has anything to do with the disabled legacy system.

 

Yes! That is what the OP basically is. I only have about 5 pages of characters to log on to find who has what to send to who needs what. Most of which have 0 inf' because I keep grabbing what they have to send to other alts, and which character has any amount to send is constantly changing. Others have much, much more. The OP would make sharing their inf so much easier than the current options. That is what the OP is about. You are correct. That is entirely what the OP is about. A quality of life change. No power creep. No bringing back hated, legacy systems or mechanics. Just a collective pool of inf'. Called whatever people are comfortable with calling it. I just happened to have chosen the name "prestige".

In short, you're asking for a completely new system to swap out a sunsetted system.

And just hoping it in no way "jiggles" an of the legacy spaghetti code.

Because we all know that programming for that kinda thing is just so easy it's simple to justify dev time for.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

In short, you're asking for a completely new system to swap out a sunsetted system.

No. I am asking for a new means of storing and transferring inf' that can be accessed in a SG base and be direct deposited into for the sake of simplifying the process for the player base. I am not asking for the removal of a sunsetted system. I am not asking for the re-purposing of a sunsetted system. You are correct in that I am asking for a completely new system. And I thought using the name from the sunsetted system made sense and would be feasible.

 

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

And just hoping it in no way "jiggles" an of the legacy spaghetti code.

Have you ever coded before? You can set up a variable that is tracked to accomplish something in the program, but in and of itself, it has no meaning to anyone other than the coder. Now, you could just leave the variable as "X", "string", or whatever and just hope the user can figure it out or that you will remember what that variable is for later on down the line. However, for the sake of knowing which variable you are dealing with, particularly so the user can understand, you assign that variable a name. That name can be changed and it will not affect the linked variable. The variable itself can be changed and not affect the linked name. And while I can't currently remember the examples, there are repeat use names already in the game and they are not causing code problems. NPC A and NPC B have the same name, but they are not the same character. This is the same thing. It's just a name.

 

Edit again: For reference and explanation, say you have tracker "M". Now if the character's alignment is "Hero", call up name "Influence". Tracker displays name "Influence" for the tracker. If character alignment = "Villain", call up name "Infamy". Tracker displays name "Infamy" for its value name. If character alignment = "Praetorian", call up name "Information". If character alignment = "Null" or other assigned attribute, call up name "Prestige" or other assigned display name.

 

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Because we all know that programming for that kinda thing is just so easy it's simple to justify dev time for.

If the suggestion forum was limited to things that were so easy it's simple to justify dev time for, then the suggestion forum would be empty. You can disagree with any suggestion. You can point out that some things are going to be tricky or potentially more difficult than it may be worth to implement. That does not mean the suggestion should not or cannot be made. If the devs want to take a crack at the OP? I would be very appreciative. However, as I have said repeatedly in this thread, I have no delusions that it is going to happen. That should not dissuade anyone from making a suggestion though. Because sometimes? A person can be pleasantly surprised.

 

Edit: It's like someone asking for a new power set. You think that is so easy it's simple to justify? It is extremely complicated and labor intensive. Are you going to go to the threads suggesting new power sets or alternate animations for existing powers and tell all those authors that it is out of the question because it isn't so easy it's simple to justify dev time for? The typical suggestion is very complicated and dev time intensive. We get to ask for them anyway, and we hope the devs think "that's a good idea, I'll at least look into it".

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rudra