Chance Jackson Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Bots no longer do KB? What is better to slot for procs caltrops or acid mortar? Edited July 16, 2023 by Chance Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uun Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Chance Jackson said: What is better to slot for procs caltrops or acid mortar? Caltrops Uuniverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Chance Jackson said: Bots no longer do KB? What is better to slot for procs caltrops or acid mortar? I want to say there is only one attack (from the robots) that still does Knockback. Otherwise they now do Knockdown. Acid Mortar is pretty bad for %procs. I have the Annihilation %-Res piece in it only because several of my other AoE attacks include the same piece and I'm hoping for an extension of the -Resistance. Caltrops isn't a particularly good %proc power, but it has a larger area of effect than Acid Mortar (although IIRC it has a max target cap of fewer enemies) so the MM has more control where the power lands. I spent a long time fiddling with different choices of slotting (mostly testing to see how %proc helps); the slotting of each power I landed on is: Level 1: Caltrops (A) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Damage/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 14: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Accuracy: Level 50+5 Personally: Recharge is the most important for each, followed by Accuracy (especially if %procs are being leveraged!) The Damage slotting is simply because of what pieces were available in a given set; I treat these as primarily debuff powers. I wouldn't fault anyone for substituting 4 pieces of Shield Breaker in place of Undermined Defenses in Acid Mortar; in my build positional defenses are soft-capped without that set bonus. Since Shield Breaker has a max level of 30, the final Accuracy IO would probably be something like a boosted Ragnarok Accuracy/Recharge piece instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 9 hours ago, tidge said: I want to say there is only one attack (from the robots) that still does Knockback. Otherwise they now do Knockdown. Acid Mortar is pretty bad for %procs. I have the Annihilation %-Res piece in it only because several of my other AoE attacks include the same piece and I'm hoping for an extension of the -Resistance. Caltrops isn't a particularly good %proc power, but it has a larger area of effect than Acid Mortar (although IIRC it has a max target cap of fewer enemies) so the MM has more control where the power lands. I spent a long time fiddling with different choices of slotting (mostly testing to see how %proc helps); the slotting of each power I landed on is: Level 1: Caltrops (A) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Damage/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 14: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Accuracy: Level 50+5 Personally: Recharge is the most important for each, followed by Accuracy (especially if %procs are being leveraged!) The Damage slotting is simply because of what pieces were available in a given set; I treat these as primarily debuff powers. I wouldn't fault anyone for substituting 4 pieces of Shield Breaker in place of Undermined Defenses in Acid Mortar; in my build positional defenses are soft-capped without that set bonus. Since Shield Breaker has a max level of 30, the final Accuracy IO would probably be something like a boosted Ragnarok Accuracy/Recharge piece instead. Thank you, you have given me lots to reconsider 13 hours ago, Uun said: Caltrops Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbegla Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 On 7/16/2023 at 9:08 AM, tidge said: Personally: Recharge is the most important for each, followed by Accuracy (especially if %procs are being leveraged!) The Damage slotting is simply because of what pieces were available in a given set; I treat these as primarily debuff powers. One thing to consider, is Caltrops is autohit, so Acc isn't really that useful in it. Acid Mortar does need some Acc, but if I remember correctly it already has a decent Acc bonus (1.10?) and once you hit with it, the -def helps you hit again. Plus it stacks on itself, so multiple Acid Mortars means you're bound to get the debuff to land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Arbegla said: One thing to consider, is Caltrops is autohit, so Acc isn't really that useful in it. Acid Mortar does need some Acc, but if I remember correctly it already has a decent Acc bonus (1.10?) and once you hit with it, the -def helps you hit again. Plus it stacks on itself, so multiple Acid Mortars means you're bound to get the debuff to land. IIRC, every %proc in an attack requires a ToHit, which is why I have the Accuracy piece slotted, and why I often with look for combination pieces that include Accuracy on powers that I slot with %procs Originally, I had a second %-Resistance debuff in Acid Mortar, when I swapped in the Accuracy piece I felt like I was seeing a much more even application of the %-Resistance. I was almost never seeing both %-Resistances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 15 hours ago, tidge said: IIRC, every %proc in an attack requires a ToHit, which is why I have the Accuracy piece slotted, and why I often with look for combination pieces that include Accuracy on powers that I slot with %procs Wow, been playing since issue 0 & i think this is the first time i've ever heard that about Procs. A proc triggering and then missing when the main power hits is wack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Acid Mortar could be a reasonably easy power to test (against even/higher level enemies): Don't bring out pets Take the SG Invisibility Buff, run with +Stealth so that the MM is not a target Drop the Acid Mortar near enemies, let it do its thing. Don't attack, allow the enemies to attack the Acid Mortar Review the combat logs. Change slotting, repeat. The main confounding factor will be how many potential targets the Acid Mortar has, but many enemies should group around it for melee attacks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chance Jackson Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 7/17/2023 at 6:03 PM, tidge said: IIRC, every %proc in an attack requires a ToHit, which is why I have the Accuracy piece slotted, and why I often with look for combination pieces that include Accuracy on powers that I slot with %procs Originally, I had a second %-Resistance debuff in Acid Mortar, when I swapped in the Accuracy piece I felt like I was seeing a much more even application of the %-Resistance. I was almost never seeing both %-Resistances. I seem to recall Pseudo pets inherit some buffs from the caster so shouldn't Caltrops inherit my global acc from sets & +tohit from tactics? If so the Procs slotted in Caltrops should also benefit right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Chance Jackson said: I seem to recall Pseudo pets inherit some buffs from the caster so shouldn't Caltrops inherit my global acc from sets & +tohit from tactics? If so the Procs slotted in Caltrops should also benefit right? I don't actually know. MM Henchmen definitely get Supremacy bonuses for example, but I don't think they get MM global bonuses of any sort. My guess is that any %proc on cast uses the Accuracy of the player, but after that I don't know how the pseudo-pet would know who summoned it (and which global bonuses to use).... but that is just a guess made based on my casual observation of %procs. I almost always use an enemy-targeting macro to toss Caltrops. I don't think all "pseudo-pets" are the same, and I'm not sure how I'd be able to construct experiments to tell. I sometimes keep a pet combat window available (even for non-MMs) to try to look, but I'm not parsing logs or collecting hard data. Acid Mortars show up in pet windows (like Henchmen), but Caltrops don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raikao Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 pages and no one else posts a build. It boggles my mind how so many are ...hoarding information? I dunno. I don't get it. Just post your builds so one can have something to compare or take inspiration from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 I've been pretty liberal posting my builds. I'll admit that since I don't use MIDS (or similar) I'm mostly turned off by folks just wanting to "do comparisons". I mean: I made my build why do I need to put it in a format easy for someone else unwilling to simply copy it into their program of choice? My standard 3-bots build (page 5): Spoiler Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Traps Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Concealment Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery ------------ Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Sovereign Right – Accuracy/Damage (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus Level 1: Caltrops (A) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Damage/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy/Damage (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Endurance (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Recharge (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Recharge Level 4: Fly (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 6: Equip Robot (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP Level 8: Photon Grenade (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime Level 10: Hover (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5 (*) Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus (*) Call to Arms: Defense Aura for Pets (*) Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage Level 14: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Accuracy: Level 50+5 Level 16: Force Field Generator (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5 Level 18: Maintenance Drone (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb Level 20: Poison Trap (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Unbreakable Constraint Chance for Damage (Smashing): Level 50 (*) Superior Entomb: Chance for +Absorb: Level 50 Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance, +Resist (All) +Regen(Pets): Level 50 Level 24: Group Fly (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%) Level 26: Upgrade Robot (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5 Level 28: Maneuvers (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton (Endurance / ToHit / Defense Buff): Level 53 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 30: Tactics (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton (Endurance / ToHit / Defense Buff): Level 53 (*) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up Level 32: Evasive Manuevers (A) Shield Wall: Teleportation Protection, +Res (All) Level 35: Scorpion Shield (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage Level 38: Kick (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge Level 41: Mace Beam Volley (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff Level 44: Tough (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% (*) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) Level 47: Weave (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 49: Grant Invisibility (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed ------------ Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest (A) Interrupt Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 4: Athletic Run Level 2: Swift (A) Fly Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Health (A) Miracle - +Recovery (*) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance (*) Panacea - Heal: Level 50+5 Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod (*) EnduranceMod IO: Level 50+5 ------------ A single-bot build (page 5, IIRC): Spoiler Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Traps Power Pool: Force of Will Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery ------------ Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus Level 1: Caltrops (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire) (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold) Level 2: Web Grenade (A) HamiO:Endoplasm Exposure:53 (Acc/Mez) Level 4: Mighty Leap (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 6: Weaken Resolve (A) HamiO: Lysosome Exposure (Acc/Def Debuff/ToHit Debuff) (*) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage Level 8: Photon Grenade (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire) (*)Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy) (*) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown Level 10: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage (*) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff Level 12: Equip Robot (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP Level 14: Wall of Force (A) D-Sync Guidance:50 (Accuracy/Range) (*) HamiO Centriole Exposure:50 (Damage/ Range) (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire) (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage Level 16: Force Field Generator (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5 Level 18: Maintenance Drone (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb Level 20: Poison Trap (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 Level 24: Maneuvers (A) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5 (*) Shield Wall – Defense/Endurance Level 50+5 (*) Shield Wall - Teleportation Protection / +Resistance (All) (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 26: Upgrade Robot (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 28: Seeker Drones (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun: Level 50 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 30: Tactics (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up (*) Endurance Cost Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 32: Assault (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 35: Scorpion Shield (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage Level 38: Kick (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge Level 41: Tough (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) (*) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance / Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5 Level 44: Weave (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 47: Unleash Potential (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 49: Protector Bots (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen: Level 50 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed ------------ Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest (A) Interrupt Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 4: Athletic Run Level 2: Swift (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Health (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery (*) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod ------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raikao Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 12 hours ago, tidge said: I've been pretty liberal posting my builds. I'll admit that since I don't use MIDS (or similar) I'm mostly turned off by folks just wanting to "do comparisons". I mean: I made my build why do I need to put it in a format easy for someone else unwilling to simply copy it into their program of choice? My standard 3-bots build (page 5): Reveal hidden contents Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Traps Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Concealment Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery ------------ Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Sovereign Right – Accuracy/Damage (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus Level 1: Caltrops (A) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Damage/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy/Damage (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Accuracy (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Endurance (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Damage/Recharge (*) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback/Recharge Level 4: Fly (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 6: Equip Robot (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP Level 8: Photon Grenade (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime Level 10: Hover (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5 (*) Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus (*) Call to Arms: Defense Aura for Pets (*) Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage Level 14: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Accuracy: Level 50+5 Level 16: Force Field Generator (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5 Level 18: Maintenance Drone (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb Level 20: Poison Trap (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Unbreakable Constraint Chance for Damage (Smashing): Level 50 (*) Superior Entomb: Chance for +Absorb: Level 50 Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance, +Resist (All) +Regen(Pets): Level 50 Level 24: Group Fly (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%) Level 26: Upgrade Robot (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5 Level 28: Maneuvers (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton (Endurance / ToHit / Defense Buff): Level 53 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 30: Tactics (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton (Endurance / ToHit / Defense Buff): Level 53 (*) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up Level 32: Evasive Manuevers (A) Shield Wall: Teleportation Protection, +Res (All) Level 35: Scorpion Shield (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage Level 38: Kick (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge Level 41: Mace Beam Volley (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage (*) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff Level 44: Tough (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% (*) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) Level 47: Weave (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 49: Grant Invisibility (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed ------------ Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest (A) Interrupt Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 4: Athletic Run Level 2: Swift (A) Fly Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Health (A) Miracle - +Recovery (*) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance (*) Panacea - Heal: Level 50+5 Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod (*) EnduranceMod IO: Level 50+5 ------------ A single-bot build (page 5, IIRC): Reveal hidden contents Primary Power Set: Robotics Secondary Power Set: Traps Power Pool: Force of Will Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery ------------ Level 1: Battle Drones (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus (*) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus Level 1: Caltrops (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire) (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage(Cold) Level 2: Web Grenade (A) HamiO:Endoplasm Exposure:53 (Acc/Mez) Level 4: Mighty Leap (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 6: Weaken Resolve (A) HamiO: Lysosome Exposure (Acc/Def Debuff/ToHit Debuff) (*) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage Level 8: Photon Grenade (A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance (*) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire) (*)Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy) (*) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown Level 10: Acid Mortar (A) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff (*) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge/Endurance (*) Undermined Defenses - Recharge (*) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage (*) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff Level 12: Equip Robot (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (*) Unbreakable Guard - +7.5% MaxHP Level 14: Wall of Force (A) D-Sync Guidance:50 (Accuracy/Range) (*) HamiO Centriole Exposure:50 (Damage/ Range) (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage(Fire) (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy) (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) (*) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage Level 16: Force Field Generator (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed (*) Luck of the Gambler - Defense (*) Defense Buff IO: Level 50+5 Level 18: Maintenance Drone (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime (*) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance (*) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb Level 20: Poison Trap (A) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50+5 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 22: Assault Bot (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura: Level 50 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50 Level 24: Maneuvers (A) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50+5 (*) Shield Wall – Defense/Endurance Level 50+5 (*) Shield Wall - Teleportation Protection / +Resistance (All) (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 26: Upgrade Robot (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 28: Seeker Drones (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50 (*) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun: Level 50 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 30: Tactics (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up (*) Endurance Cost Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 32: Assault (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 35: Scorpion Shield (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage Level 38: Kick (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge Level 41: Tough (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% (*) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) (*) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance / Endurance Reduction: Level 50+5 Level 44: Weave (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 47: Unleash Potential (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed Level 49: Protector Bots (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50 (*) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen: Level 50 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed ------------ Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest (A) Interrupt Reduction IO: Level 50+5 Level 4: Athletic Run Level 2: Swift (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Health (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery (*) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5 Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod ------------ Thanks! Now overall that build has some really terrible slotting but even in this case there are things to ponder about. For example: You have Group Flight, does that work well with /traps? I haven't tested this but assumed you can't really put down anything in mid-air. Is the Entomb +Absorb noticable in fights? I have mutliple builds where I could put that in instead of a damage proc, but I wonder how strong that one absorb proc is in general gameplay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Raikao said: For example: You have Group Flight, does that work well with /traps? I haven't tested this but assumed you can't really put down anything in mid-air. Is the Entomb +Absorb noticable in fights? I have mutliple builds where I could put that in instead of a damage proc, but I wonder how strong that one absorb proc is in general gameplay. Some things to consider: I pretty much only use Group Fly to travel and while sweeping on my way to somewhere else. Robotics are ranged-attack henchmen. Flying doesn't really hurt them. I almost always turn off Group Fly during fights, but it doesn't hurt traps any more than Hover. This is a non-consideration. It's trivial to 'x' on most maps to get to 'ground level' if that is what is bothering you. This is NOT a stay at range build. The MM is always toe-to-toe with enemies. I usually don't bother toggling on Tough. I spent quite some time experimenting with different options for that last slot in Poison Trap, including Lockdown %+2 Mag(*1). I would go into large spawns of even-con mobs to see just how often the %proc would fire, and with what radius. I came to the conclusion that neither the radius (and this is a 'set bomb', and not a 'target AoE') nor the %damage was really worth it when compared to getting 100+ HP of Absorb... as I always try to keep the bots on Bodyguard. The recharge time on the Poison Trap simply doesn't make sense (for me) to try to eek an extra 70 HP of damage against (some) enemies. Keep in mind: it's really the -Regen I want against hard targets. The hold is nice but the Henchmen are faster at cleaning up than the little bit of extra damage I could try to eek out. Not to mention, the Entomb piece is also contributing to the Recharge time of the power. (*1) This %proc makes it trivial to see which enemies are actually hit by the %proc, which is easier IMO to estimate relative performance than pouring over the combat logs. I have no performance issues with this build. I typically run into other Robotics/Traps MMs while sweeping GMs, and from my PoV it is faster at solo defeating GMs (including Caleb, who it can fly after) than the other MMs.. It also appears to be faster at defeating GMs than other (primary/secondary) MM builds I regularly see, with the potential exception of Jurassik... because resistances... (and maybe the Goliath War Walker... but I have to bring out the Lores to finish that one off solo). It 'farms' just fine, I never worry about what enemies I'll be facing. IMO: The only thing that the 3-bot build is missing from a tactical PoV is Web Grenade to immobilize single targets. I hated that (for most of the game's history) I had to take it, it's a power that is nigh-useless in +95% of the content. There are times when it could be useful, but frankly all the other powers play a more important role in the build. I have toyed around with the idea of replacing Mace Beam Volley with Web Envelope, but I dislike the smaller number of targets, shorter range, and slotting options. The (AoE) attacks are one of the ways I grab aggro with the MM itself. The Knockdown as a soft control suits me just fine. Defensively, the only thing aspect of the build that annoys me is that it is susceptible to (long) mezzes. In PvE content, the capped defenses (and henchmen getting some aggro) generally mean that this is not an all-the-time problem... but every once in a while a long-duration Stun (Malta) will land, or a Fear (Jack in Irons)... and it is a little embarrassing when something like a Paladin or Babbage lands a Sleep but can't land another attack to break it. Edited August 31, 2023 by tidge Parenthesis affect by Group Fly perhaps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raikao Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 17 hours ago, tidge said: Some things to consider: I pretty much only use Group Fly to travel and while sweeping on my way to somewhere else. Robotics are ranged-attack henchmen. Flying doesn't really hurt them. I almost always turn off Group Fly during fights, but it doesn't hurt traps any more than Hover. This is a non-consideration. It's trivial to 'x' on most maps to get to 'ground level' if that is what is bothering you. This is NOT a stay at range build. The MM is always toe-to-toe with enemies. I usually don't bother toggling on Tough. I spent quite some time experimenting with different options for that last slot in Poison Trap, including Lockdown %+2 Mag(*1). I would go into large spawns of even-con mobs to see just how often the %proc would fire, and with what radius. I came to the conclusion that neither the radius (and this is a 'set bomb', and not a 'target AoE') nor the %damage was really worth it when compared to getting 100+ HP of Absorb... as I always try to keep the bots on Bodyguard. The recharge time on the Poison Trap simply doesn't make sense (for me) to try to eek an extra 70 HP of damage against (some) enemies. Keep in mind: it's really the -Regen I want against hard targets. The hold is nice but the Henchmen are faster at cleaning up than the little bit of extra damage I could try to eek out. Not to mention, the Entomb piece is also contributing to the Recharge time of the power. (*1) This %proc makes it trivial to see which enemies are actually hit by the %proc, which is easier IMO to estimate relative performance than pouring over the combat logs. I have no performance issues with this build. I typically run into other Robotics/Traps MMs while sweeping GMs, and from my PoV it is faster at solo defeating GMs (including Caleb, who it can fly after) than the other MMs.. It also appears to be faster at defeating GMs than other (primary/secondary) MM builds I regularly see, with the potential exception of Jurassik... because resistances... (and maybe the Goliath War Walker... but I have to bring out the Lores to finish that one off solo). It 'farms' just fine, I never worry about what enemies I'll be facing. IMO: The only thing that the 3-bot build is missing from a tactical PoV is Web Grenade to immobilize single targets. I hated that (for most of the game's history) I had to take it, it's a power that is nigh-useless in +95% of the content. There are times when it could be useful, but frankly all the other powers play a more important role in the build. I have toyed around with the idea of replacing Mace Beam Volley with Web Envelope, but I dislike the smaller number of targets, shorter range, and slotting options. The (AoE) attacks are one of the ways I grab aggro with the MM itself. The Knockdown as a soft control suits me just fine. Defensively, the only thing aspect of the build that annoys me is that it is susceptible to (long) mezzes. In PvE content, the capped defenses (and henchmen getting some aggro) generally mean that this is not an all-the-time problem... but every once in a while a long-duration Stun (Malta) will land, or a Fear (Jack in Irons)... and it is a little embarrassing when something like a Paladin or Babbage lands a Sleep but can't land another attack to break it. Thanks, that clears it up a little bit. I've experimented with Group Fly and I'm still unsure about it. When trying to skip packs in open areas it's kind of great and there is always that one encounter where you can cheese with flying above the enemies. But I need to be close for Time's Juncture so I'm always torn on staying up or next to mobs. I might also just play it a little bit wrong. It seems like the idea would be to be in Bodyguard mode and stand inside the pack, with the pets a little outside of them. But then how do I keep aggro? Even with using Photon Grenade and /time skills I often feel like I need to stay near my bots to spam Temporal Healing. I swapped out Devastation for Sudden Acceleration in Pulse Rifle Blast, that makes quite a bit of sense if I value the knockdown more than the little damage. And the right way to get damage would be using procs, but I need the recharge set bonus there. Ragnarok seems like a better choice than Annihilation for Photon Grenade so I did keep that. Time Stop has less recharge than Poison Trap, but I'll try Entomb in it (or maybe put Entomb in Distortion Field since I always have that up). I always look at Bots/Traps and then realize I like Bots/Time a little more. I really wish they would reverse the -regen change on Bots though. Since it straight up nerfed every secondary except Traps where you already have -1000% and don't care if you have more or less from the primary. Just feels weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 I like the Time Secondary (on other AT, haven't played on a MM). I'll repeat my comments that while Temporal Mending is valuable (moreso for allied players than henchmen) I think for a Robotics MM I'd rely on the Maintenance Drone to heal the henchmen. I'm not saying skip Temporal mending, but maybe don't slot it. It's a real toss up who you want to be more valuable for: henchmen or PUGmates. Hitting Defenses for the -2, -1, 0 level henchmen is more important than trying to heal them IMO. Masterminds have damage scales of 0.55; their attacks have a rather large Endurance cost. IMO it isn't practical to chase all of the following to try to improve damage output of the MM's personal attacks: %proc damage set bonuses, including (global) Recharge (needed for %procs) Accuracy (needed for %procs) Endurance reduction (needed if spamming attacks) My 'one robot build' attempts to put more damage in the MM via %procs, so it isn't as if I can't imagine how to do such a thing. IMO there is no reason to try to go overboard with %damage in MM attacks, which is why I leverage set bonuses. I deeply appreciate the %-resistance from Annihilation.... keep in mind that -Resistance is a 'force multiplier' for teams, and that an MM has brought their own team with them. The only weirdo compromise to 'conventional netdeck wisdom' is that I have the Gaussian's %Build Up in Tactics... this will frequently boost the MM attacks, but ultimately I don't think it is really contributing that much to performance; see below about how 'extra' ToHit from the %BuildUp can help with Aggro attraction. The end result of my personal calculation is that if I can get Accuracy and Endurance Reduction in attacks, plus valuable set bonuses... I got three of the four things I wanted in a %damage build anyway, with the alternate being I could chase getting only one of those four things (multiple %damage). Note that my build doesn't chase (global) +Recharge because of the endurance tax. The Time Secondary has some VERY good powers in the higher tiers (Farsight! Slowed Response! Chronoshift!) that may demand more global recharge, mileage varies. Keeping Slowed Response in play at all times (with Accuracy slotting) should improve performance significantly. Aggro management - I play Bots/Traps such that the MM is using attacks (mostly AoE) to attract aggro. AoE works best, Accuracy/ToHit is important. Once I've gotten the attention of enemy mob(ile)s and drawn them to the henchmen and (pseudo)pets, I don't worry about keeping aggro. I don't care if the enemies target things like Acid Mortars. This strategy (with Bodyguard mode) really only begins to fall short when both of the following occur: (a) there is a small number of enemies AND (b) another player is keeping all of the aggro on themselves. This just means I have to pay attention and switch modes. Almost all of the damage comes from the henchmen; the best a MM can do is to buff the Henchmen and debuff enemies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I thought I'd post this in a not-too-old thread... lots of testing has shown that slotting Endurance Reduction in the primary Robotics' Upgrade Robot doesn't do anything for the henchmen (unlike some other primaries) but a while back I realized I could make a slight compromise in my T2 henchmen slotting to replace the straight Defense Buff IO with a Defense/Endurance piece. I use a Hami-O at level 53, but a 50+5 boosted Defense/Endurance piece will do. I've been running this slotting for a while, and the slight loss of Defense hasn't been noticeable. The Protector Bots were the henchmen that were usually running low on Endurance, this has pretty much made it so they are not even close to approaching empty for most of the content I play. There was another slight change I made, to pull out the LoTG piece and instead give the T2 a little more Accuracy/Damage slotting via Call to Arms. I wanted a little more Recovery, but if Endurance wasn't an issue I'd probably have replaced it with a boosted 50+5 piece from one of the other sets (and shuffled some of the unique pet globals, like Expedient Reinforcement from the T1). Level 12: Protector Bots (A) Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance (13) Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance (13) Defense Buff IO -> HO Cytoskeleton 53 or Def/End 50+5 piece <- THIS WAS THE CHANGE (15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed <- I also changed this to Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage (15) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets (17) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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