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Choosing between two builds


diefree
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Posted (edited)

Hello I'm trying to decide between these two builds.  I'm leaning to first which I have been using because of it's really high resists. I haven't had many issues tanking really, but curious on community opinion. I haven't created these builds as I am terrible at it. Thanks for opinions.

 

Edit to add credit: First build is from Infinitum and second is from ellimcgonagle.

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1745&c=759&a=1518&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1617&c=695&a=1390&f=HEX&dc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

 

 

 

 

Edited by diefree
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Posted (edited)

Neither; they're both very badly made.

 

The first build has low resists and low slot-efficiency. It underslots tough hide only to waste slots chasing def elsewhere, by putting positional defense IO sets on a typed defense armor. It takes phys perfection despite also taking agility alpha and ageless destiny (which should preclude the need for more endurance). A note on Phys perfection: it is only 20% regen and 10% recovery. If I took gloom, and put 2 apocs in it, that gives 16% regen. Phys perfection is only worth it in specific circumstances where you really make use of its access to sustain procs or to help avoid taking other endurance powers. Bad tank design uses it as a security blanket.

 

The 2nd build makes no attempt to build for resist bonuses at all, not even the resist uniques are slotted. It looks like a build from 2012, and a shoddily made one at that.

Edited by Zect
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Zect said:

Neither; they're both very badly made.

 

The first build has low resists and low slot-efficiency. It underslots tough hide only to waste slots chasing def elsewhere, by putting positional defense IO sets on a typed defense armor. It takes phys perfection despite also taking agility alpha and ageless destiny (which should preclude the need for more endurance). A note on Phys perfection: it is only 20% regen and 10% recovery. If I took gloom, and put 2 apocs in it, that gives 16% regen. Phys perfection is only worth it in specific circumstances where you really make use of its access to sustain procs or to help avoid taking other endurance powers. Bad tank design uses it as a security blanket.

 

The 2nd build makes no attempt to build for resist bonuses at all, not even the resist uniques are slotted. It looks like a build from 2012, and a shoddily made one at that.

72% is the minimum resist i am seeing which isn't bad for a defense/resist hybrid set.  Slotting tough hide more does not give significant boosts from what i am seeing 2% at most. A bit harsh lol.

 

Maybe they wanted the focused accuracy and Phys perfection is just there.

 

Perhaps post a build so they can see the differences.

 

 

Edited by Gobbledigook
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12 hours ago, Gobbledigook said:

72% is the minimum resist i am seeing which isn't bad for a defense/resist hybrid set.  Slotting tough hide more does not give significant boosts from what i am seeing 2% at most. A bit harsh lol.

 

Make that 65.3 (shield tanks can comfily sit at ~75% to all) because of where the ATIO proc is. 6PPM can't save a proc when it lives in Jab with ED-capped rech.

 

Focused acc is 20% acc and some minuscule amount of tohit for 0.78 EPS. A single purple set is 15% acc. Properly slotting rage (for example 3x adjusted targetting for EN res) and using purple sets to build for F/C/Psi/tox resistance would not only provide more tohit and acc, they would also provide the defensive stats this build needs.

 

There's a KD proc in foot stomp turning it into KB. There's neither taunt nor an aoe blast so tactical options are quite limited. etc etc. These things stand out to me, because they are indicative of building for what looks pretty in mids as opposed to what actually works. I would post a blow-by-blow build teardown, but the person who made this might just be beyond my help.

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3 hours ago, Zect said:

Focused acc is 20% acc and some minuscule amount of tohit for 0.78 EPS. A single purple set is 15% acc. Properly slotting rage (for example 3x adjusted targetting for EN res) and using purple sets to build for F/C/Psi/tox resistance would not only provide more tohit and acc, they would also provide the defensive stats this build needs.

The real point of focused accuracy is tohit debuff resistance (and perception debuff resistance to a lesser extent). Even double stacked rage with all the accuracy bonuses in the world can't always punch through some of the serious debuffs that fly around in the endgame. I build all my tanks to hit +4s (+3 with the alpha shift) without it but I always take focused accuracy as well. I could maybe see the argument that Inv/SS is so uniquely well equipped with tohit buffs that it may be a special case though (and besides Inv is the kind of set that probably doesn't actually suffer too much from a period of complete stalemate - I personally never play it for more or less that very reason; not active enough).

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5 hours ago, Zect said:

 

Make that 65.3 (shield tanks can comfily sit at ~75% to all) because of where the ATIO proc is. 6PPM can't save a proc when it lives in Jab with ED-capped rech.

 

Focused acc is 20% acc and some minuscule amount of tohit for 0.78 EPS. A single purple set is 15% acc. Properly slotting rage (for example 3x adjusted targetting for EN res) and using purple sets to build for F/C/Psi/tox resistance would not only provide more tohit and acc, they would also provide the defensive stats this build needs.

 

There's a KD proc in foot stomp turning it into KB. There's neither taunt nor an aoe blast so tactical options are quite limited. etc etc. These things stand out to me, because they are indicative of building for what looks pretty in mids as opposed to what actually works. I would post a blow-by-blow build teardown, but the person who made this might just be beyond my help.

Mids is off then as mine shows different. Im using 3.5.5.10.

 

Slotting rage is not always required by some players. Some don't even take it for some reason.

 

I would change FS slotting though.

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4 hours ago, Parabola said:

The real point of focused accuracy is tohit debuff resistance (and perception debuff resistance to a lesser extent). Even double stacked rage with all the accuracy bonuses in the world can't always punch through some of the serious debuffs that fly around in the endgame. I build all my tanks to hit +4s (+3 with the alpha shift) without it but I always take focused accuracy as well. I could maybe see the argument that Inv/SS is so uniquely well equipped with tohit buffs that it may be a special case though (and besides Inv is the kind of set that probably doesn't actually suffer too much from a period of complete stalemate - I personally never play it for more or less that very reason; not active enough).

 

I would agree with you if endgame were filled with Mary MacCombers running hurricane - now that might justify focused acc (can't kill her quickly enough, can't mez to turn it off, autohit). IME def buffs from cimerorans and hardmode mobs are more likely to be a problem.

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7 minutes ago, Zect said:

 

I would agree with you if endgame were filled with Mary MacCombers running hurricane - now that might justify focused acc (can't kill her quickly enough, can't mez to turn it off, autohit). IME def buffs from cimerorans and hardmode mobs are more likely to be a problem.

Death mages and carnies summoning dark servants are two that immediately come to mind.

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