What to pair with Ninjas?

[Force Redux]

Trick arrow would not be my choice for +4/x8. As you indicate it's a lot of mobs to debuff. I think you would find+4/x4 or +3/x6 more appropriate. Just play with the settings. Not every build can do nor should aspire to tackle Max difficulty settings.

 

However if you want to pair ninjas with something that can do max settings, I recommend force field or cold domination. Both will pump up the defense and offer other benefits.

 

Force field offers status protection (very handy for the ninjas and you)  some resistance debuffs, a get out of jail free card for when things go bad (personal force field) and knock back/repel for some crowd control. 

 

Cold offers some resistances, a group stealth, an area of effect knocked down/debuff, a slow toggle,  and debuffs.

Edited May 31 by Force Redux

[R jobbus]

4 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

Trick arrow would not be my choice for +4/x8. As you indicate it's a lot of mobs to debuff. I think you would find+4/x4 or +3/x6 more appropriate. Just play with the settings. Not every build can do nor should aspire to tackle Max difficulty settings.

 

However if you want to pair ninjas with something that can do max settings, I recommend force field or cold domination. Both will pump up the defense and offer other benefits.

 

Force field offers status protection (very handy for the ninjas and you)  some resistance debuffs, a get out of jail free card for when things go bad (personal force field) and knock back for some crowd control. 

 

Cold offers some resistances, a group stealth, an area of effect knocked down/debuff, a slow toggle,  and debuffs.

 

thanks so much for the info! i'll give it a shot

[Maelwys]

22 minutes ago, R jobbus said:

Ah I really appreciate the help. that makes sense.

 

 I don't know quite know what im doing wrong at this point. Im still struggling just soloing +4/8 PI radios with the /trick arrow build that was posted here. The ninjas just get utterly destroyed, it seems very difficult to keep everything debuffed, and it's quite cumbersome trying to retrain them when a few of them get picked off. I'm taking less damage from body guard mode but I think I might benefit from a different secondary to be honest. Do you have a secondary you prefer for ninjas? i may just not be feeling TA enough right now I suppose.

Yeah that sounds like a generic debuff secondary build to me alright.

You could slot your ninja upgrade powers for +Defence, take Maneuvers and a +Def Alpha Slot, Support Hybrid and Barrier etc to try to push them all to softcap.... ...or alternatively just swap to /Cold which was already suggested a few times further up the thread. Having the extra mitigation from the Defense bubbles, Arctic Fog and Frostwork will increase your survivability a LOT, and its main debuff is a long-duration pseudopet (Sleet) which lets you concentrate on doing other stuff as long as you just remember to pop it every 45 seconds. The extra defense also frees you up to take Clarion Destiny (for the mez protection) instead of Barrier.

/Time is the other obvious standout, but it needs a smidge more IO love than /Cold does (and also essentially locks you into taking a particular Patron pool for Power Boost!)
 

Edited May 31 by Maelwys

[Force Redux]

6 minutes ago, R jobbus said:

 

thanks so much for the info! i'll give it a shot

Oddly enough, Dark Miasma CAN handle +4/x8, due to is massive AOE heal and it's pet, which fill in the gaps between the debuffs. 

 

See the guide in my signature if that may interest you.

 

On my Dark MMs I tend to add the Incarnate Interface (diamagnetic?) That debuffs enemy To hit. It stack nicely. My Necro/Dark can pile on so much to hit debuff it could even have a appreciable effect versus av's.

[Maelwys]

2 minutes ago, Force Redux said:

Oddly enough, Dark Miasma CAN handle +4/x8, due to is massive AOE heal and it's pet, which fill in the gaps between the debuffs. 

❤️ Dark Miasma.

Bot/Dark was my very first MM on Live; and even on SOs it could handle hordes of mobs providing you got Fearsome Stare up + nobody killed your Darkest Night anchor + you spammed Twilight Grasp like it was going out of fashion. It leant on that AoE heal HARD though; and slotting Shadow Fall for Defence helped...

(I'm still bitter that Controllers got a better version of Dark than everyone else. I'd have thumb wrestled Recluse himself for access to something like Fade!) 🎢 🤣

[R jobbus]

22 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Yeah that sounds like a generic debuff secondary build to me alright.

You could slot your ninja upgrade powers for +Defence, take Maneuvers and a +Def Alpha Slot, Support Hybrid and Barrier etc to try to push them all to softcap.... ...or alternatively just swap to /Cold which was already suggested a few times further up the thread. Having the extra mitigation from the Defense bubbles, Arctic Fog and Frostwork will increase your survivability a LOT, and its main debuff is a long-duration pseudopet (Sleet) which lets you concentrate on doing other stuff as long as you just remember to pop it every 45 seconds. The extra defense also frees you up to take Clarion Destiny (for the mez protection) instead of Barrier.

/Time is the other obvious standout, but it needs a smidge more IO love than /Cold does (and also essentially locks you into taking a particular Patron pool for Power Boost!)
 

thanks for the replies guys, very cool stuff. I will check out the Dark miasma guide, i'm new to MMs so this is all new stuff for me. I've only played like basic scrapper/willpower builds or just blaster damage types. I have a illusion/martial dom which I enjoy alot and it got me interested in wanting to give mastermind a try.

 

Very cool stuff. Do you guys have any builds for ninjas/cold anywhere/or know where i can find one? I'm willing to just try and make one myself when I get there but i'd be fooling myself if i pretended like I know what sets to use (or what im doing at all) for mastermind.

[Force Redux]

@R jobbus I can try to get something together. I have a Ninjas/Cold I really like. 

 

Best thing you can do is slot some defense in Ninja Training buff, then make sure to drop in the MM unique +defense or resist IOs in as you level up (about 2 power pet power).

 

Also Overwhelming Force Knockdown/damage IO in Genin helps add some more CC to their non-KD/KU attacks.

 

The rest can live on Basic enhancements until you are ready to Do a final build. 🙂

Edited May 31 by Force Redux

[R jobbus]

2 hours ago, Force Redux said:

@R jobbus I can try to get something together. I have a Ninjas/Cold I really like. 

 

Best thing you can do is slot some defense in Ninja Training buff, then make sure to drop in the MM unique +defense or resist IOs in as you level up (about 2 power pet power).

 

Also Overwhelming Force Knockdown/damage IO in Genin helps add some more CC to their non-KD/KU attacks.

 

The rest can live on Basic enhancements until you are ready to Do a final build. 🙂

Yea that'd be great whenever you get around to it. Ahh i didn't think about the knockdown/damage for genin, that's cool.

 

Yea I'm excited to see how cold plays, i like trick arrow but it seems just hard to use if there's alot of pumped difficulty mobs running around. Or it could also be that im just not good enough at MM to make good use of it which is also possible lol

 

[evetsleep]

6 hours ago, Force Redux said:

 

Force field offers status protection (very handy for the ninjas and you)  some resistance debuffs, a get out of jail free card for when things go bad (personal force field) and knock back/repel for some crowd control. 

 

Cold offers some resistances, a group stealth, an area of effect knocked down/debuff, a slow toggle,  and debuffs.

Just one small nitpick to add.  Forcefield shields can be boosted by Power Boost to push the ninjas defense to really high (insane) levels, which is important if you're Fighting +3 or more due to the level difference of T1 and T2 henchmen.  Can't do this with cold, but that balances out because cold offers stronger debuffs.

 

When I feel like chilling with an MM I bring out my ninja/FF.  Power boosted shields mean they very rarely get hit and it's a very low stress play.  Not as low stress like bots/FF, but close.

[Force Redux]

That's a great point @evetsleep, Ty for adding that!

[R jobbus]

13 hours ago, evetsleep said:

Just one small nitpick to add.  Forcefield shields can be boosted by Power Boost to push the ninjas defense to really high (insane) levels, which is important if you're Fighting +3 or more due to the level difference of T1 and T2 henchmen.  Can't do this with cold, but that balances out because cold offers stronger debuffs.

 

When I feel like chilling with an MM I bring out my ninja/FF.  Power boosted shields mean they very rarely get hit and it's a very low stress play.  Not as low stress like bots/FF, but close.

is forcefields the way to go with trying to use ninjas for harder content? honestly it may just not be cut out to do that lol. I'm assuming there's some other MM primary sets that're way better, but ninjas is fun

[evetsleep]

12 hours ago, R jobbus said:

is forcefields the way to go with trying to use ninjas for harder content? honestly it may just not be cut out to do that lol. I'm assuming there's some other MM primary sets that're way better, but ninjas is fun

I kind of depends.  The prevailing problem with ninjas is when they do get hit they tend to take a lot of damage (and if your lucky they have their heal queued and don't get hit again so they can use it).  With forcefield your giving them the absolute best chance during combat to come out on top, however even with high defense the debuffs will still be their Achilles heel.  I wouldn't run +4x8 with them personally and some baddies with -def debuffs (or +ToHit) will be a huge pain.

 

That said on teams, with power boosted shields, I can just set them on aggressive and let them do their thing and they do just fine.  Power boosted /time +DEF is another solid choice that includes a heal for those rare times when the RNG fails you.

[Force Redux]

17 hours ago, R jobbus said:

is forcefields the way to go with trying to use ninjas for harder content? honestly it may just not be cut out to do that lol. I'm assuming there's some other MM primary sets that're way better, but ninjas is fun

 

Play what you enjoy. On teams ninjas do just fine, even playing at +4/x8, which I was doing with my Ninja/Cold just today. On solo I dial it down to +2/x6 and I don't care. Not everything has to be super optimal when you have fun doing it 🙂

[victusfate]

I've had luck with ninjas/storm. I took the Tsoo lore with sorcerer, and also use hurricane. The ninjas survive ok as long as they don't take 2 solid hits before healing

[Dessertking]

On 6/2/2024 at 1:58 AM, Force Redux said:

 

Play what you enjoy. On teams ninjas do just fine, even playing at +4/x8, which I was doing with my Ninja/Cold just today. On solo I dial it down to +2/x6 and I don't care. Not everything has to be super optimal when you have fun doing it 🙂

@Force Redux could we please see your ninja/cold build? I am trying to decide for my next MM between thugs and ninjas. My main being a necro/dark.  

[Force Redux]

@Dessertking sure, but it may take a few days/week before I have time. Also it's not an final build, the character's still working out the incarnate stuff and final slotting.

[Force Redux]

This build is a work in progress. Final slotting would include a pair of Acc/Dam Hami-Os for each pet. I don't use Mid's any more so this is old skool:

 

Genin

112% damage, 62% accuracy, 40% end redux

Acc/Dam

Acc/Dam/EndRed

Acc/Dam/End Red

Soulbound Allegiance %buildup

Overwhelming Force dam/KD conversion

Call to Arms: Defense Aura

 - Honestly need to get the Accuracy to about 90% for me to feel comfortable. I might move the CtA Defense Aura to another pet and get another IO in there. 

 

Jounin

112% damage, 82% accuracy, 62% end redux

Acc/Dam

Acc/Dam/EndRed

Acc/Dam EndRed

Acc/Dam EndRed

Edict of the Master: Defense

Super. Comm. of the MM: AOE aura

 

Oni

94% Damage, 92% Accuracy, 63% end redux

Acc/Dam

Acc/Dam/EndRed

Acc/Dam EndRed

SovRight Resist Aura

Exped. Reinf. Reist Aura

Super. Mark of Suprem. Resist and Regen aura/End

 

Honestly, everything else is pretty standard /Cold slotting, and I'm kinda out of energy. Getting the uniques into Ninjas and aiming for 100% damage, 90% accuracy and 40% endredux is my goal.