Arctic Fog vs Stealth

[Scarlet Shocker]

This refers back to The Glass Fox which you can read about if interested but it raised an interesting question

 

Stealth at face value is better... or is it?

 

I get the idea that Stealth falls away if you act, in terms of attacking, buffing or doing anything much in front of an enemy.

 

I don't see that in the description of Arctic Fog. But (from memory) attacking or acting using other stealth powers does effectively negate the stealth.

 

So is Artic Fog unique in that you retain the stealth and its defence benefits or is there an omission in the description? IF I took both, I appreciate they don't stack but will I get some benefit (my thinking here is that Stealth can act as a mule for an LotG but is it worth it?

 

Thoughts, fellow Paragonads?

[Riverdusk]

Yes, several stealth powers don't suppress when attacking (arctic fog, steamy mist, shadowfall, superior invisibility and a few others I think).  What in means in practical terms is that members of the same 'group' will still all see you if you attack any one of them, but if there is another separate group close by, they will not unless you hit them as well or get close enough.  Superior invisibility is the most impressive as it's stealth is powerful enough that you can literally stand in one group and attack a different group at range and the group you are standing in won't react.  Note that clicking a glowie will still suppress all of them completely though.  You can see this for yourself if you go to combat attributes and monitor "stealth radius pve".

 

Yes, you retain all of Arctic fog's defense even while attacking.

 

Arctic fog + a celerity stealth IO is the way to go imo (as they do stack).  Stealth has a better stealth radius, but arctic fog's defense is better, it has several damage resistance values, slow resistance, and it is aoe.

 

 

Edited January 10 by Riverdusk

[Scarlet Shocker]

10 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Yes, several stealth powers don't suppress when attacking (arctic fog, steamy mist, shadowfall, superior invisibility and a few others I think).  What in means in practical terms is that members of the same 'group' will still all see you if you attack any one of them, but if there is another separate group close by, they will not unless you hit them as well or get close enough.  Superior invisibility is the most impressive as it's stealth is powerful enough that you can literally stand in one group and attack a different group at range and the group you are standing in won't react.  Note that clicking a glowie will still suppress all of them completely though.  You can see this for yourself if you go to combat attributes and monitor "stealth radius pve".

 

Yes, you retain all of Arctic fog's defense even while attacking.

 

Arctic fog + a celerity stealth IO is the way to go imo (as they do stack).  Stealth has a better stealth radius, but arctic fog's defense is better, it has several damage resistance values, slow resistance, and it is aoe.

 

 

I'm working on a build now where I have a few slots available so I might take both, and shove a stealth proc in one of my Sprint powers. That'll learn 'em 🙂

 

Thanks for the input! You've confirmed what I suspected with useful bonus info!

[Uun]

Base perception radius is 45 feet for minions, 50 feet for lieutenants and 54 feet for bosses. If your stealth radius is greater than those distances, you're invisible to all but certain foes (Rikti drones, snipers, Rulaaru eyeballs, KoA). Stealth has a stealth radius of 55 feet in PVE (making you invisible), which suppresses when you're mezzed, click a mission object, attack, or are hit by an attack. Arctic Fog has a stealth radius of 35.5 feet, which will allow you to get closer without being detected but won't make you invisible.  A Celerity or Unbounded Leap Stealth IO will add 30 feet to your stealth radius, making you effectively invisible. The stealth in Arctic Fog doesn't suppress when you attack or are hit by an attack, but the stealth in the IO does, so be mindful of distances between spawns.

 

Stealth provides 2.5% defense (defender numbers) that only suppresses when you're mezzed, plus another 10% defense that suppresses when you're mezzed, attack, are hit by an attack, click a mission object, command a pet, help an ally, or a pseudo pet does any of these. Arctic Fog provides 5.0% defense, 20% F/C/E resistance, and 60% slow resistance that only suppresses when you're mezzed.

 

 

 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'm working on a build now where I have a few slots available so I might take both, and shove a stealth proc in one of my Sprint powers. That'll learn 'em

Stealth and Arctic Fog don't stack with each other. There's no benefit to running both (or taking both).

[SeraphimKensai]

Here's the data behind both powers (note artic fog shows the defender values, you can pull up controller, corruptor values as necessary).

 

Artic Fog:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.cold_domination.arctic_fog&at=defender

 

Stealth:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.invisibility.stealth&at=defender

 

As others have stated they do not stack stealth values. Personally I would only take both powers if I was using stealth as a mule for say an LOTG 7.5% recharge IO, as slotting an unbounded leap or celerity stealth IO into say sprint will get you to invis level stealth, while also still providing the team based buffs it gives.

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Stealth and Arctic Fog don't stack with each other. There's no benefit to running both (or taking both).

I appreciate that - but it does give me a mule slot for an LotG and I have the powers space as things stand

[ZemX]

Just don't be that person on a team trying to lead a hostage out who doesn't turn off their stealth aura and can't seem to understand why they need to.  🤪

[Scarlet Shocker]

I learned that lesson the hard way on live!

[Area Man]

I still don't understand why the stealth in Super Speed no longer stacks with Steamy Mist/Arctic Fog/Shadowfall.  I used to take Superspeed with all my Storm characters, which gave me full invisibility with Steamy Mist, and then I could "herdicane" with Hurricane and Superspeed.  Now I have to put a Stealth IO in Superspeed to make the same thing work.  Why the change?
 

[Uun]

On 1/12/2024 at 5:36 PM, Area Man said:

I still don't understand why the stealth in Super Speed no longer stacks with Steamy Mist/Arctic Fog/Shadowfall.  I used to take Superspeed with all my Storm characters, which gave me full invisibility with Steamy Mist, and then I could "herdicane" with Hurricane and Superspeed.  Now I have to put a Stealth IO in Superspeed to make the same thing work.  Why the change?

From the Page 5 patch notes (and debated to death at the time):

 

Stealth Toggle Exclusivity Removal

Player Stealth Toggles, with the exception of temporary powers, are no longer exclusive. Players can now use multiple stealth toggle powers at the same time, however the stealth radius, defense, and threat level of these powers will not stack. Instead, the strongest effect from these powers will be used (much like how travel power stacking currently works). The powers that fall within these stealth toggle rules are listed below.

List of Stealth Toggles

• Arctic Fog
• Cloak of Darkness
• Cloaking Device
• Energy Cloak
• Field Operative
• Infiltration
• Mask Presence
• Shadow Fall
• Shinobi
• Shinobi-Iri
• Stealth
• Steamy Mist
• Super Speed
• Superior Invisibility

[Scarlet Shocker]

Thanks @Uun

 

 

[Area Man]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:47 PM, Uun said:

From the Page 5 patch notes (and debated to death at the time):

 

Stealth Toggle Exclusivity Removal

Player Stealth Toggles, with the exception of temporary powers, are no longer exclusive. Players can now use multiple stealth toggle powers at the same time, however the stealth radius, defense, and threat level of these powers will not stack. Instead, the strongest effect from these powers will be used (much like how travel power stacking currently works). The powers that fall within these stealth toggle rules are listed below.

List of Stealth Toggles

• Arctic Fog
• Cloak of Darkness
• Cloaking Device
• Energy Cloak
• Field Operative
• Infiltration
• Mask Presence
• Shadow Fall
• Shinobi
• Shinobi-Iri
• Stealth
• Steamy Mist
• Super Speed
• Superior Invisibility

Thanks -- I have no problem with any of those except Super Speed.  Back on Live, it was common to take Super Speed with partial stealth power like Shadow Fall or Steamy Mist to get full invisibility -- even before Stealth IOs were available.  I think it was a mistake to include Super Speed in that list.  Yes, I'm sure it was debated, and it is not that big a thing with Stealth IOs being easy to get with merits.  I suppose I just find it annoying.

I used to take Super Speed on almost all of my characters with partial stealth.  With only a few exceptions, I've now abandoned or respec'ed out of Super Speed as a travel power (unless Super Speed + Stealth IO is the "cheapest" way to get full invisibility without taking the Stealth Pool).