Prestige for Super Groups Again

[Skyhawke]

50 minutes ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

Okay... so what exactly does Prestige have to do with this? 

 

[Earth Dragon]

5 hours ago, sykoholic001 said:

 

Okay... so what exactly does Prestige have to do with this? Prestige, as it was, could be viewed as an SG's influence on the world around them but, in truth, it was currency. It was based solely on the Influence/Infamy that SG members earned. Not XP. Not achievements. Not Merits. Solely on in-game "money". Maybe it's just a matter of perspective but I really don't see how "rich" an SG is as an indication of how of much of a difference it is making in the world. Well... maybe a villain group (not only making a negative difference but profiting from it as well) but certainly not a hero group. Maybe if Prestige, as a metric, were changed so that it was a combination of XP, Inf, Merits, and what-have-you, thereby reflecting all of a member's activities (and thereby, all of the SG's activities) rather than just their money earning, it would better suit the purpose you are suggesting.
 

 

(I'm pretty sure you meant "wouldn't be interesting to look at" so I will proceed under that assumption.)

I'm not seeing how or why a badge would be necessary. More interesting and more fun... yes. Necessary or the only way... no. Not saying that I'm against the idea. I'm all for it. I love badges. I'm just saying that I don't see it as "necessary". If you want to track/gauge the difference your SG is making in the world, why wouldn't a "never-ending tally" suffice?

Let's not forget what the words "influence" and "infamy" actually mean.  Attaching Prestige gain to those was reasonably natural as that was the group's indicated "influence" on the world, but unlike those, also didn't go away in the same way.  It could be referenced from the SG window.  But if Prestige is a theoretical manifestation of a group's "influence", then getting it the same time you get influence was an easy place to attach it.

 

 The "foul taste" was mostly due to the decision that was made to either "Influence the world" for the group OR for yourself.  The only thing that thematically makes sense about that was the individual may not be doing things in the name of that group every time like any comic character just doing their own thing for the afternoon, but it doesn't ever need to be separated or impact each other as they did before

 

 

 

 

If the point is to make things fun, then that's the point of me asking.  Badges are fun on the individual and they were fun earning as a group.

 

We know the badges can be done.  

 

A never ending tally instead, in addition, would also be fun.

 

I'd take either or both, but the badges are an easy add and lots of people enjoy them, and there doesn't need to be any reason to ask other then they are fun.  

 

 

The only reason I would push back about some of what you are pondering in this thought is you are trying to make something from the ground up and massively change something, where as turning Prestige back on and dropping the infamy penalty and re-instituting badges can be done easily as those things are already there (assuming the person who modified them didn't do it in a way where they took a virtual sledgehammer to the code).  It would be better to explore adding getting a point of Prestige for every minute you spent in Pocket D (as we know the game already calculates that as you leave) or whatever else someone could come up with after it was turned back on

[Rudra]

If all the devs do is turn prestige back on, then it would function as it did back on Live. If you want prestige to be based on time like a day job or anything other than what prestige did back on Live, which was pay for base rent each month and pay for base items, then prestige can't just be turned back on. It would have to be redesigned. And with how the game's code works, that would be a whole new animal being called prestige with the original prestige still sitting turned off.

[Seven Strikes]

+1. 

 

I love the idea of redesigning Prestige to encourage people to participate in SG's to get more badges based on group participation / achievements. 

 

As said many times. You completely remove its connection to "rent" and "building costs" and it have zero attachment to base building and make it purely a reward for cooperative play within your group of friends. 

 

Realistically I don't see it as a priority to redesign it though 😞

[Earth Dragon]

46 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If all the devs do is turn prestige back on, then it would function as it did back on Live. If you want prestige to be based on time like a day job or anything other than what prestige did back on Live, which was pay for base rent each month and pay for base items, then prestige can't just be turned back on. It would have to be redesigned. And with how the game's code works, that would be a whole new animal being called prestige with the original prestige still sitting turned off.

When you say this, it sounds like you would have to pay for your component again if ever turned back on.

 

Turning it on does not have to be associated with it paying for your components.  If you can turn something 0, you can keep it at 0, while the thing 0 references is accumulating again

[Frozen Burn]

Can we not end this thread yet?

 

Prestige isn't coming back.  Not in the way it was or in a new iteration.  Full stop.  Period.  No need to argue it anymore.  

 

There is no simple "turn it back on without it affecting base stuff."  It would require a hefty redesign/fix.  And creating something new also takes a LOT of effort - and none of this is a priority for our small volunteer Dev team. 

 

We need more important things, like content!  Which I am SO excited for in the upcoming issue.  Implementing a measuring stick so certain people can compare their "prowess" is not what is needed in the game.  

[Rudra]

Just now, Earth Dragon said:

52 minutes ago, Rudra said:

If all the devs do is turn prestige back on, then it would function as it did back on Live. If you want prestige to be based on time like a day job or anything other than what prestige did back on Live, which was pay for base rent each month and pay for base items, then prestige can't just be turned back on. It would have to be redesigned. And with how the game's code works, that would be a whole new animal being called prestige with the original prestige still sitting turned off.

When you say this, it sounds like you would have to pay for your component again if ever turned back on.

 

Turning it on does not have to be associated with it paying for your components.  If you can turn something 0, you can keep it at 0, while the thing 0 references is accumulating again

What I am saying, is that if all the devs do is turn prestige back on, it will not do anything other than what it did back on Live. With base items having a 0 prestige cost and base rent (hopefully) never coming back, then it would track nothing and be used for nothing other than what it did back on Live. So if base items remained de-linked and base rent stayed dead, players would give up their inf' gains to build up prestige while in SG mode, and that is all it would do. If you want it to do something else, anything else, a whole new mechanic would have to be made. And it still would not be as simple as turning prestige back on. It would have to be created from the ground up, given the same name as the existing non-functional mechanic called prestige, and hoped that because now there are two such mechanics with the same name, doesn't cause code problems.

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Can we not end this thread yet?

No. You're not the boss of me.

 

2 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Prestige isn't coming back.  Not in the way it was or in a new iteration.  Full stop.  Period.  No need to argue it anymore.

Oh? You know that for a fact? Which developer told you this?

 

3 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

There is no simple "turn it back on without it affecting base stuff."  It would require a hefty redesign/fix.  And creating something new also takes a LOT of effort - and none of this is a priority for our small volunteer Dev team.

Oh, so you are one of the Homecoming developers. You must be, it's the only way that you could know this. Well, thanks for the info.

 

4 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

We need more important things, like content!  Which I am SO excited for in the upcoming issue.  Implementing a measuring stick so certain people can compare their "prowess" is not what is needed in the game.  

I'm so glad that you get to decide what we're allowed to talk about while the servers are down. Well, I guess it's time for you to log in to your moderator account and lock the thread then.

 

Take care. Peace.

[Frozen Burn]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

No. You're not the boss of me.

 

Oh? You know that for a fact? Which developer told you this?

 

Oh, so you are one of the Homecoming developers. You must be, it's the only way that you could know this. Well, thanks for the info.

 

I'm so glad that you get to decide what we're allowed to talk about while the servers are down. Well, I guess it's time for you to log in to your moderator account and lock the thread then.

 

Take care. Peace.

 

I channeling my inner Snarky.  😄  

[Earth Dragon]

35 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What I am saying, is that if all the devs do is turn prestige back on, it will not do anything other than what it did back on Live. With base items having a 0 prestige cost and base rent (hopefully) never coming back, then it would track nothing and be used for nothing other than what it did back on Live. So if base items remained de-linked and base rent stayed dead, players would give up their inf' gains to build up prestige while in SG mode, and that is all it would do. If you want it to do something else, anything else, a whole new mechanic would have to be made. And it still would not be as simple as turning prestige back on. It would have to be created from the ground up, given the same name as the existing non-functional mechanic called prestige, and hoped that because now there are two such mechanics with the same name, doesn't cause code problems.

Again, you impose something that isn't particularly the case as a dishonest way to say "this can never happen".

 

We already know that you don't have to give up "inf" for prestige as that has always been the case for early levels, and it went from a complete loss at higher levels to only a 50% loss after a little time.

 

If you can program a sliding scale that starts at zero, and you can change that scale to slide to a different final point, you can "slide" it to stay at zero.

 

 

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Earth Dragon said:

Again, you impose something that isn't particularly the case as a dishonest way to say "this can never happen".

 

We already know that you don't have to give up "inf" for prestige as that has always been the case for early levels, and it went from a complete loss at higher levels to only a 50% loss after a little time.

 

If you can program a sliding scale that starts at zero, and you can change that scale to slide to a different final point, you can "slide" it to stay at zero.

 

 

That still requires a change to the code, not just turning it back on. Which is part of what I am saying. If all the devs do is turn it back on, then it will function exactly like it did back on Live sans possibly any existing changes that were already made. And if prestige is to work even more differently than that? Especially if t is to track things it did not back on Live? It has to be recreated. Which given the known nature of the game code, would result in a completely different function being made from the ground up.

[sykoholic001]

4 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

Let's not forget what the words "influence" and "infamy" actually mean.  Attaching Prestige gain to those was reasonably natural as that was the group's indicated "influence" on the world

 

Yes... by definition, that is what those words mean. By in-game mechanics however, they are wealth and/or currency that are  simply called "influence" and "infamy". It's the old saying about "a rose by any other name...". Call them whatever you want but, in-game, they are still money. And since Prestige was based solely upon them, an SG's wealth is all it truly measured. We could role-play and pretend that Prestige (as well as Influence/Infamy) represented "the difference we are making in the world" but it was, nevertheless, still money.

I fully agree that simply "turning Prestige back on" would be a great deal easier for the devs than what I'm suggesting. I'm just saying that what I'm suggesting (Prestige being based on more than just money) would better fit (IMO) the overall idea/theme of you're wanting.

As for bringing back the SG Badges... this is where some of the misunderstanding lies. When you say "bring back the SG badges" which do you mean: the "idea" of SG Badges or literally the old SG Badges themselves. I'm all for having SG Badges be a thing again... though there would still be the issue of Larger SG Advantage/Privilege. Bringing back the old badges... not so much. Bringing the old one back would be pointless. Nearly all of them unlocked a base item/asset (or, rather, a recipe for a base item). That was the whole point behind them. Earn the badge to unlock the item. All of those items/assets are now completely free and for the most part utterly useless except as decor. Even the names of the old badges don't apply anymore because they were named after the items they unlocked. So... by all means, make SG Badges a thing again but they need to be all new and completely different badges

 

2 hours ago, Earth Dragon said:

We already know that you don't have to give up "inf" for prestige as that has always been the case for early levels, and it went from a complete loss at higher levels to only a 50% loss after a little time.

 

If you can program a sliding scale that starts at zero, and you can change that scale to slide to a different final point, you can "slide" it to stay at zero.

 

 

Yes... it can and has been changed, but "changed" is the keyword there. What you are wanting (Prestige not actually taking any of a member's Inf but counting, converting, and calculating as though it had) would require it being changed again, not just simply turned back on. Turning off a red light then turning it back on won't make it blue. Ya gotta change the bulb.

As @Rudrasaid, simply turning Prestige back on wouldn't do anything other than give us the exact same thing we had (and universally hated) before it was turned off... and nobody wants that, hence why it was turned off.

 

We are also going off the assumption that Prestige even can be turned back on. For all we know, the HC devs may have removed it from the game code completely and the system/mechanic doesn't even actually exist anymore.

 

Edited February 1 by sykoholic001