Questions about Stone/Battle Axe

[Perfidy]

TL;DR version: 
Is it unrealistic to expect to reach s/l/e/n resist caps without granite?
What resistance and defense stats are "the norm" for a properly slotted stone tank without using granite?
With those stats, can the tank punch it's way out of a paper bag? 
Further, if anyone has a Stone/Battle Axe build to share, I'd love to get some ideas - but I insist on Combat Jumping. 
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Longer version: 

Just dinged 50, and considered granite as a mule for the lotg. 

Like most characters, I really could use like 5-7 more slots to round things out to where I'd like them. 

I've looked at some older builds - before the changes to stone armor, but have yet to see anything that doesn't revolve around the use of granite. 

Now, I am okay using it, since it doesn't turn off the other toggles, and I can switch back easily enough. But it would cause me to have to rework a number of things and potentially change the way I play. So, I'd like to avoid that, if I can. 

So, first question: Is it unrealistic to reach s/l/e/n resist caps without granite? I am thinking it's possible, but the trade-off is going to be taking a number of slots from the attacks. 

I may have to consider two builds for this - one for solo, where I can rely on more damage and less survivability, and a team build where I can let the team do the damage, while I just try to keep all the aggro. 

The alternative is keep the build I have, which has really worked okay for me. My concern is the incarnate path, and not being able to hold up against the stronger content. And I'm certainly not comfortable tanking Recluse, as I've no idea how sturdy this character is. The toughest it's faced is a level 40 Positron in Mortimer Kal SF. And, that went fine. In the MSR, (having only done it sub-50 so far) it can herd the Rikti to the bowl, but if I try to gather a very large group, the -recharge is quite noticeable, and I'm unable to keep taunting. (and Earth's Embrace is simply not going to recharge before I need it) Also, during the MSR, I ended up having to monitor hold protection because they stacked holds on me and succeeded. Never expected that, candidly. Fair enough, given whatever mez protection I have is incidental. 

Attached is what I'm currently working with. 
I thought fold space would be a nifty tool; but it seems useless in the MSR as slotted. If I keep it, I'll have to find another slot for accuracy, or blow a couple billion on the 53 d-sync that does accuracy and recharge. It's only inf, petty cash for me. 
 

Current Build - Tanker (Stone Armor - Battle Axe).mbd

[Psyonico]

You can probably get close to the S/L cap without Granite, but E/N would be more difficult.

 

Stone Skin provides more S/L resist than it does to everything else, in addition, you can add Tough, which only affects S/L resist.

[Sovera]

It's kinda realistic. I can get there with three stacks from the ATO (the least realistic since upkeeping two stacks is the average) plus 5% from Barrier.

 

I posted a Stone/Elec in these forums not too long ago that was there.

 

There is no real point in Granite since it may not detoggle the other armors but it stops their effects, so you lost a lot plus get penalties, and it's just for some DDR and resists which you're already nearly capped that a small orange will finish hardcapping.

 

 

 

Took a gander at it and it's as close as I can make it. You will want Cardiac since Stone Armor is end heavy and so is Axe. I suggest Barrier as a panic button and for the extra 5% resistances (and defenses, I guess).

 

Might of the Tanker might not be in the right place in Chop since you want to spam it on CD to get more ATO stacks so move it around if you don't use Chop enough for that goal.

 

Swoop is your heavy hitting ability so I took it back.

 

Not enough dividends for Conserve Power and Physical Perfection when you were ailing for S/L resistances. I ended up taking and using Weave unlike what I do with my other Stone Armor Tankers where Weave is just a LotG slot because you've taken so many powers that I was check-mate-ed on IO sets. If you ditch Super Speed and travel with a mix of Teleport and Combat Jumping you can take Conserve Power again but CP is basically just a Recovery Serum but on a long CD.

 

I understand not wanting to take Hasten since having no clickies but it does smooth out the attack chain.

 

I didn't bother finishing to slot Earth's Embrace or taking the Unbreakable Guard 100HP unique because if you take an afternoon to slog through the 4 accolades you'll have your HP a soupçon under the cap (32 HP).

 

76% S/L with one ATO stack, if you use Barrier it goes to 81%, a second ATO stack and it's 87% and change. If you keep spaming which ever attack has the ATO procs you should get a third stack at least some of the time which will hardcap you.

 

E/N is always the sad one since it has no Tough to help. 71% with one stack, 76% with Barrier, 82% with a second stack and then hey, if you manage a third stack it's 88% and change.

Current Build - Tanker (Stone Armor - Battle Axe).mbd

[Perfidy]

I appreciate your taking a look and making changes. As far as the 4 accolades go, I get them on every character I have. Already have them, actually. 

I took the time to create this build on brainstorm. Going to test it against +4/8 Aeon, Lady Grey and ITF.  Not that I anticipate doing those all the time, but just want to see what I'm working with. 

[schrodingercat]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:31 AM, Perfidy said:

TL;DR version: 
Is it unrealistic to expect to reach s/l/e/n resist caps without granite?
What resistance and defense stats are "the norm" for a properly slotted stone tank without using granite?
With those stats, can the tank punch it's way out of a paper bag? 

 

I run a Stone/rad tank (before rad was the farmer's choice!) and I clear 2/8 without having to use inspirations or pay attention at 50 thanks to Ageless's extra boost to DDR. Nothing hurts me much, from Av's with weird tricks to exotic damage typed mobs. I cruise through everything making clouds of fluffy mass death and havent really had too much trouble killing stuff, except AV's which take a while. I have done all the normal and incarnate content at 4/8 in groups without deaths, but I haven't tried any of the new, homecoming/player made content specifically designed to test tank durability.

 

I don't feel like i've had to sacrifice much to get damage, in fact, I build specifically for defense and the damage just happened, possibly thanks to brimstone and increased target caps. I do use the fighting pool shields and tanker ATO procs. I would offer a build, but I don't have any sets or anything in mine, just level 40+ plain IO's with some procs, so it's nothing fancy.

 

TLDR; tanks are all very tanky with minimal effort. People act like you have to squeeze all the juice out of everything to get to god-tier immortality but for 99% of content just absolute lazy slotting and power picks will be fine, as it was made for pre-IO tanks. Damage is fine with increased target caps, too. Add procs!

[Perfidy]

14 minutes ago, schrodingercat said:

tanks are all very tanky with minimal effort. People act like you have to squeeze all the juice out of everything to get to god-tier immortality but for 99% of content just absolute lazy slotting and power picks will be fine, as it was made for pre-IO tanks. Damage is fine with increased target caps, too. Add procs!

This is in line with my experience with the current tank in question. For whatever reason, I don't want to be finding myself in an iTrial (like Underground) and when bringing the AV to the corner by the elevators, not be able to keep taunting because I'm dead. Or being in a MLTF and not be able to handle Lord Recluse without putting some teammate at risk because they have to constantly buff me. I just want to be able to do my part. And I think I can do that with the build I have now...but not having dealt with Stone Armor, just wasn't clear what the normal limits for the build are, without granite. 

I don't like the penalties of granite, and not a big fan of how it looks either, although I could deal with that. Since we get more than one build, I might have a 2nd build that uses granite, and lets the other armors stand as mules for various set bonuses. At least there's options, right? 

[schrodingercat]

1 hour ago, Perfidy said:

This is in line with my experience with the current tank in question. For whatever reason, I don't want to be finding myself in an iTrial (like Underground) and when bringing the AV to the corner by the elevators, not be able to keep taunting because I'm dead. Or being in a MLTF and not be able to handle Lord Recluse without putting some teammate at risk because they have to constantly buff me. I just want to be able to do my part. And I think I can do that with the build I have now...but not having dealt with Stone Armor, just wasn't clear what the normal limits for the build are, without granite. 

I don't like the penalties of granite, and not a big fan of how it looks either, although I could deal with that. Since we get more than one build, I might have a 2nd build that uses granite, and lets the other armors stand as mules for various set bonuses. At least there's options, right? 

 

I should have clarified that I don't use granite except as a mule. I primarily rely on layered defenses with an emphasis on regen. I am at 400-500% regen currently. I also use vigor incarnate and have power transfer: chance to heal proc slotted in stamina, the armor that gives recovery, and the APP energy physical perfection power. So, every minute, i proc heal for 90 hp three times, which is a pretty big chunk of self healing. I also have the radiation heal proc attack in my chain because the final single target radiation power has an incredibly slow, dumb animation and i could hit two times with other attacks in the time it takes to animate. I get axe doesnt have that, but you should get a ton of mitigation from keeping stuff on their butts!

 

I can't look at my build in game, but iirc I have 60-70% resist to E/NE and capped resist to S/L/F/C. Psi is at 60% resist? I have defenses at 50+ to everything but F/C. I know granite has uber resists to everything but I havent encountered an extreme E/NE damage scenario such that it can seriously damage me before my regen at HP cap makes it better in short order.

[Perfidy]

Interesting. I have been considering vigor because of the heal aspect. I've noticed that Earth's Embrace gives ...maybe a 50% increase in HP, and candidly have been thinking of aiming towards a higher regen rate, with higher recharge, to keep the HP as high as I can keep it. I often find myself doing very crazy things with a build on Mids, then on Brainstorm and laughing at myself for spending a couple of hours on something that doesn't work at all, lol. Not that this is a crazy thought, because I'll never know if something works unless I try it out. 

Mids is a great tool, but often I've seen a build look great, but when I make it, I don't like it for various reasons. 

Hmm...that will give me something to do while waiting for things to get back on line. 

 

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, schrodingercat said:

TLDR; tanks are all very tanky with minimal effort. People act like you have to squeeze all the juice out of everything to get to god-tier immortality but for 99% of content just absolute lazy slotting and power picks will be fine, as it was made for pre-IO tanks. Damage is fine with increased target caps, too. Add procs!

 

Squeezing all the juice is fun!

 

...it may not be necessary, but it's fun. Like playing Tetris and fitting all the blocks!

[schrodingercat]

13 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Squeezing all the juice is fun!

 

...it may not be necessary, but it's fun. Like playing Tetris and fitting all the blocks!

 

ah, yeah it is! But I didn't want people avoiding a thing because they feel they HAVE to get all the juice. Juice squeezing is an optional minigame once you've settled on a character you like, really! 

[schrodingercat]

15 minutes ago, Perfidy said:

Interesting. I have been considering vigor because of the heal aspect. I've noticed that Earth's Embrace gives ...maybe a 50% increase in HP, and candidly have been thinking of aiming towards a higher regen rate, with higher recharge, to keep the HP as high as I can keep it. I often find myself doing very crazy things with a build on Mids, then on Brainstorm and laughing at myself for spending a couple of hours on something that doesn't work at all, lol. Not that this is a crazy thought, because I'll never know if something works unless I try it out. 

Mids is a great tool, but often I've seen a build look great, but when I make it, I don't like it for various reasons. 

Hmm...that will give me something to do while waiting for things to get back on line. 

 

 

you should be able to get earth's embrace perma with 3 recharges. I have the full set that procs that absorb power for the recharge bonus, and it puts me at the HP cap all by itself. I don't use hasten, either! I may have a couple of luck of the gamblers, but I'm definitely not a high recharge character. That being said, one of my few weaknesses is being slowed, so I very much recommend using at a minimum the slow resistance in the winter event travel power. I believe its pretty cheap in the auction house. If I was going to work on juice squeezing this character, I would chase recharge and more regen (can never have enough regen!)

[Perfidy]

After looking over the numbers, I'm definitely going to pursue what seems to be easy enough to get, "perma"- Earth's Embrace. 

And with nothing in any of the armors except the lotg and the glad armor 3%, the Steadfast 3% and the Unbreakable Guard 7.5% HP, the numbers aren't that bad. 

I could still use another 7 more slots, but it's interesting deciding which juice is worth the squeeze. 

[Sovera]

Perma EE is easy. Heck, the built I dropped had perma EE with just two slots. It's not a big bar to pass.