Dark Servant duration question

[phaonica]

I'm sure there's a good reason for this and maybe someone could let me know what it is, but I don't understand why the Dark Servant has to be re-summoned every 240 seconds. Animate Stone doesn't have a duration, so why does Dark Servant? If the designers didn't want you to use it constantly, why not give it an actual cooldown, instead of making the power duration and the cooldown time identical? I also played CoH before it sunset and I remember that I didn't have to re-summon the DS then so why the change?

Edited February 28 by phaonica

[Rudra]

You are comparing a Controller's primary power set pet to a support set pet. All the support pets have a limited duration before they despawn. Whether you are a Controller, Corruptor, Defender, or Mastermind; your support set pet has a limited duration. (And Controllers, Corruptors, Defenders, and Masterminds all get access to the same Dark Servant.)

 

Edit: Perhaps the best way to view it is the same as the rest of the support set buffs. The support sets include debuffs, buffs, heals, and some also include mobile objects that can also apply additional buffs, debuffs, and heals for you for a limited time. And like any other support power like the force fields, it has a limited duration after which it needs to be renewed.

Edited February 28 by Rudra

[Luminara]

56 minutes ago, phaonica said:

Animate Stone doesn't have a duration, so why does Dark Servant?

 

Controller, dominator and mastermind primary set pets have no timer.  All other combat pets do, including Dark Servant.

 

56 minutes ago, phaonica said:

I also played CoH before it sunset and I remember that I didn't have to re-summon the DS then so why the change?

 

It's had a 4 minute duration since the game launched in 2004.

 

Edit: The sentence above is incorrect.  It had a 45s duration at launch, and was immobile.  The duration was increased to 4 minutes, and the immobility removed, in Issue 2.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904235904/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=112245

 

That's the oldest Dark Miasma guide on the old forums, dating all the way back to Issue 1.

That's the only change that was ever made to Dark Servant's duration.

Edited February 28 by Luminara

[phaonica]

I suppose I understand the idea of the pets in the support sets being weaker than pets in primary sets, but since the power's active duration and cooldown are the same value, the DS can be re-activated the moment it despawns, which makes them practically permanent, assuming you don't just forget to respawn them for a few seconds. If I can immediately respawn the pet, what's the point of it expiring? Are there other powers where the active effect and the cooldown are the same value?

 

Also, it's wild that my memories of this pet not despawning are so vivid and yet clearly wrong. Sucks to get old.

[Rudra]

Your Dark Servant can be killed. If it dies before the power recharges, you have to wait for it to recharge. So not actually perma unless it survives until the power times back in. (Edit: So conditionally perma?)

Edited February 29 by Rudra

[Luminara]

15 minutes ago, phaonica said:

If I can immediately respawn the pet, what's the point of it expiring?

 

Archetype distinction and game balance.

[Uun]

Prior to I5, you could summon multiples of the pets. When they did away with that, eliminating the resummoning every 4 minutes was the bone they threw to players for what was a huge nerf. There was a lot of argument at the time about why Dark Servant and Voltaic Sentinel didn't get the same treatment. I seem to recall the reasoning was that controller pets were somehow unique and required special treatment.

 

For many years Voltaic Sentinel had a duration and recharge of 60s. Recently Voltaic Sentinel was changed to a toggle with a 10s recharge. The entity persists until you zone or are defeated. I'm not suggesting that Dark Servant get the same treatment as Voltaic Sentinel, but I think the 19-year old rationale for treating it differently than the controller/dominator pets has long lost any relevance. 

[Oklahoman]

Honestly, I wish Dark Servant had some sense of personal space, but I guess it makes sense it doesn't. He's just all up in my grill.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Prior to I5, you could summon multiples of the pets. When they did away with that, eliminating the resummoning every 4 minutes was the bone they threw to players for what was a huge nerf. There was a lot of argument at the time about why Dark Servant and Voltaic Sentinel didn't get the same treatment. I seem to recall the reasoning was that controller pets were somehow unique and required special treatment.

 

For many years Voltaic Sentinel had a duration and recharge of 60s. Recently Voltaic Sentinel was changed to a toggle with a 10s recharge. The entity persists until you zone or are defeated. I'm not suggesting that Dark Servant get the same treatment as Voltaic Sentinel, but I think the 19-year old rationale for treating it differently than the controller/dominator pets has long lost any relevance. 

Voltaic Sentinel is a toggle now?!

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=dominator_assault.electricity_manipulation.shocking_grasp&at=dominator

 

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Voltaic Sentinel is a toggle now?!

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=dominator_assault.electricity_manipulation.shocking_grasp&at=dominator

It is for blasters, corruptors, defenders and sentinels. For whatever reason, they didn't change the dominator version. 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=corruptor_ranged.electrical_blast.voltaic_sentinel&at=corruptor

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, Uun said:

It is for blasters, corruptors, defenders and sentinels. For whatever reason, they didn't change the dominator version. 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=corruptor_ranged.electrical_blast.voltaic_sentinel&at=corruptor

Or the Mastermind version. My guess is that if the AT already has permanent pets, the support pets remain on timer.

[Uun]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Or the Mastermind version. My guess is that if the AT already has permanent pets, the support pets remain on timer.

Masterminds don't get Voltaic Sentinel.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Uun said:

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Or the Mastermind version. My guess is that if the AT already has permanent pets, the support pets remain on timer.

Masterminds don't get Voltaic Sentinel.

The OP is about Dark Servants? Which MMs do get?

 

Edit: Oh, right. The Voltaic Sentinel was used as an added reference. Sorry.

Edited March 1 by Rudra

[Riverdusk]

On 2/28/2024 at 5:19 PM, phaonica said:

since the power's active duration and cooldown are the same value, the DS can be re-activated the moment it despawns, which makes them practically permanent, assuming you don't just forget to respawn them for a few seconds. If I can immediately respawn the pet, what's the point of it expiring? 

 

Keep in mind the recharge time for MM's dark servant is much longer, so that isn't the case for every AT.

 

Personally I'd just be happy if they'd allow pet set IO's to be slotted in it.  I guess I can understand the rational in that it really isn't there for damage, but would still be nice to see, especially on MM's where some primaries can struggle to fit in all those pet IO's. 🙂

[Rudra]

43 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Keep in mind the recharge time for MM's dark servant is much longer, so that isn't the case for every AT.

 

Personally I'd just be happy if they'd allow pet set IO's to be slotted in it.  I guess I can understand the rational in that it really isn't there for damage, but would still be nice to see, especially on MM's where some primaries can struggle to fit in all those pet IO's. 🙂

Then every MM player would be herded to Dark (and maybe Storm) to slot the pet procs into the support pets so they can free up the slots on the primary pets. (Edit: Not every MM player would do so, but any new MM players would be told they had to do so to maximize their pets while a not insignificant number of current players would immediately reroll their character to do so.) (Edit again: And probably demand every other MM secondary get rebuilt to include a support pet they can use to slot pet procs into.)

Edited March 1 by Rudra

[Riverdusk]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Then every MM player would be herded to Dark (and maybe Storm) to slot the pet procs into the support pets so they can free up the slots on the primary pets. (Edit: Not every MM player would do so, but any new MM players would be told they had to do so to maximize their pets while a not insignificant number of current players would immediately reroll their character to do so.) (Edit again: And probably demand every other MM secondary get rebuilt to include a support pet they can use to slot pet procs into.)

 

Yep, you probably aren't wrong.  Although I'd be more for arguing that every MM primary should have a power beyond the three pet powers that accepts pet IO's.  It just seems unequal that some MM primaries have that extra power and some don't.  Now, if that is taken into account in them being balanced against each other in other ways that'd be fine, but not really seeing evidence of that as it stands.

 

But, getting off topic now, and I know this argument has been debated before and obviously gone nowhere.

 

Edit: Forgot, another easy way to go about it really would be to just allow the MM ATO sets to also be slotted into the MM direct attack powers.  Think that's been suggested a few times before as well.

Edited March 1 by Riverdusk