Demons/Thermal - General build advice

[Duckbutler]

I'm trying to get out of my melee/tank wheelhouse a little bit and pick up something else that's more support oriented. I had a thermal corruptor back in the day and she was pretty great (if sadly team dependent) so I thought I would give it a whirl on mastermind. So far this character is pretty great! Right now it's in the early 30's and riding common IOs with 2 pet unique passives.

 

My question is more looking for general mastermind build advice/strategy/theory.

 

I look across both sets together and I see a bunch of stuff in the mastermind primary I probably want to 6 slot. Which is fine on slots, a lot of the secondary looks like it'll be okay with 4 or fewer slots except maybe the heals. In this particular case I think I want to push the pet resists up as much as I can. That makes it tempting to start frankenslotting the pets to get as many of the pet globals as possible, but then I get concerned I'm going to lose out on set bonuses and the MM themself isn't going to be as durable as I'd like. Plus hey, the pets need the accuracy/damage/endurance from the normal enhancements. So then I wonder if Hell on Earth should be muling passives from the sets I don't want to use. It loses some efficacy as a power in its own right, but maybe that's okay because it doesn't seem great anyway.

 

Does this all seem like sound build logic? Am I silly for worrying about the set bonuses or personal durability on the MM? Silly for other reasons?

[Duckbutler]

I didn't get any responses, so this is what I came up with!

 

Data Chunk

 

Spoiler

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

 

Summary

 

Spoiler

1st Draft - Hero Mastermind
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.6.6 rev. 3
──────────────────────────────
Primary powerset: Demon SummoningSecondary powerset: Thermal RadiationPool powerset (#1): FlightPool powerset (#2): LeadershipPool powerset (#3): FightingPool powerset (#4): ExperimentationEpic powerset: Mace Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Summon Demonlings
A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage3: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage/Endurance3: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage5: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Endurance5: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance7: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen

Level 1: Warmth
A: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb17: Preventive Medicine: Heal33: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance33: Preventive Medicine: Endurance/RechargeTime34: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime34: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

Level 2: Corruption
A: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance11: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge31: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance/Recharge34: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage36: Devastation: Chance of Hold

Level 4: Cauterize
A: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Endurance7: Doctored Wounds: Endurance/Recharge9: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Recharge9: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Endurance/Recharge11: Doctored Wounds: Heal

Level 6: Enchant Demon
A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 8: Fire Shield
A: Reactive Armor: Resistance36: Reactive Armor: Resistance/Endurance36: Reactive Armor: Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 10: Plasma Shield
A: Titanium Coating: Resistance37: Titanium Coating: Resistance/Endurance37: Titanium Coating: Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 12: Summon Demons
A: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage13: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance13: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge15: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance/Recharge15: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge17: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura

Level 14: Fly
A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 16: Power of the Phoenix
A: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 18: Hell on Earth
A: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets19: Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus19: Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus21: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge21: Expedient Reinforcement: Endurance/Damage/Recharge23: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage

Level 20: Maneuvers
A: Reactive Defenses: Defense23: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance29: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime33: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 22: Tactics
A: Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Endurance31: Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge31: Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff

Level 24: Summon Demon Prince
A: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage25: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Recharge25: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy27: Soulbound Allegiance: Recharge/Accuracy27: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Endurance29: Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up

Level 26: Abyssal Empowerment
A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 28: Crack Whip
A: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime45: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance45: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime46: Annihilation: Chance for Res Debuff

Level 30: Thaw
A: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)40: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 32: Forge
A: Invention: Recharge Reduction37: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 35: Scorpion Shield
A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed43: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance/Recharge46: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance46: Luck of the Gambler: Defense

Level 38: Melt Armor
A: Shield Breaker: Defense Debuff39: Shield Breaker: Accuracy/Defense Debuff39: Shield Breaker: Accuracy/Recharge43: Shield Breaker: Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge48: Shield Breaker: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge48: Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage

Level 41: Heat Exhaustion
A: Invention: AccuracyA: Invention: Accuracy42: Invention: Recharge Reduction42: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 44: Boxing
(Empty)

Level 47: Tough
A: Unbreakable Guard: +Max HPA: Unbreakable Guard: ResistanceA: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance48: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 49: Weave
A: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)A: Shield Wall: Defense/EnduranceA: Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance/Recharge50: Shield Wall: Defense

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 1: Brawl
(Empty)

Level 1: Sprint
(Empty)

Level 2: Rest
(Empty)

Level 1: Swift
(Empty)

Level 1: Hurdle
(Empty)

Level 1: Health
A: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance40: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery42: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Stamina
A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End40: Performance Shifter: EndMod

Level 14: Afterburner

Level 1: Cold Demonling

Level 1: Fiery Demonling

Level 1: Hellfire Demonling

Level 12: Ember Demon

Level 12: Hellfire Gargoyle

Level 24: Demon Prince

 

 

Mastermind (Demon Summoning - Thermal Radiation).mbd

[Maelwys]

Generally on MMs you'll want to split "Superior Mark of Supremacy" into three (2x in each pet, plus 1-2 other Frankenslotted IOs/HOs to ED-cap their damage and raise their Accuracy/Endurance). That leaves roughly 2-3 slots free in each of your pets for procs and Aura IOs.
The "Superior Command of the Mastermind" set can also be useful to 4-slot somewhere if you've room (it would fit nicely in Hell on Earth; plus 2 Aura IOs).

On Demons, IIRC the T3 Prince can make good use of the Impeded Swiftness and Ice Mistral's Torment damage procs; and the T2s need a fair bit of +res slotting... so personally I'd probably stick the the remaining two aura IOs into the T1 Demonlings if possible; along with the Soulbound Aallegiance Proc.

Other considerations? Above all else... be sure to get yourself a solid set of keybinds.
Powerswise; the Leadership pool never goes amiss on MMs and /Thermal really likes Hasten.
For Incarnates? Musculature Core Alpha; Barrier Core or Clarion Core Destiny; Support Core or Melee Core Hybrid; Degenerative or Reactive Interface; Void Radial Judgement. Realistically any Lore Pets will be fine with a Demon/Thermal as you don't really need additional healing or -regen, and mez protection can be handled via Clarion Destiny or Melee Hybrid... but the support pets from Knives of Vengance (Offense) or Talons of Vengance (Defence) will provide the best wide-area buffs.
 

Edited March 28 by Maelwys

[Meknomancer]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:35 PM, Duckbutler said:

I'm trying to get out of my melee/tank wheelhouse a little bit and pick up something else that's more support oriented. I had a thermal corruptor back in the day and she was pretty great (if sadly team dependent) so I thought I would give it a whirl on mastermind. So far this character is pretty great! Right now it's in the early 30's and riding common IOs with 2 pet unique passives.

 

My question is more looking for general mastermind build advice/strategy/theory.

 

I look across both sets together and I see a bunch of stuff in the mastermind primary I probably want to 6 slot. Which is fine on slots, a lot of the secondary looks like it'll be okay with 4 or fewer slots except maybe the heals. In this particular case I think I want to push the pet resists up as much as I can. That makes it tempting to start frankenslotting the pets to get as many of the pet globals as possible, but then I get concerned I'm going to lose out on set bonuses and the MM themself isn't going to be as durable as I'd like. Plus hey, the pets need the accuracy/damage/endurance from the normal enhancements. So then I wonder if Hell on Earth should be muling passives from the sets I don't want to use. It loses some efficacy as a power in its own right, but maybe that's okay because it doesn't seem great anyway.

 

Does this all seem like sound build logic? Am I silly for worrying about the set bonuses or personal durability on the MM? Silly for other reasons?

 

 

Bit late, this is what i've been running. Not great but it is fun and does just fine for 90% of stuff:

 

 

 

DEMONS THERMAL - Mastermind (Demon Summoning - Thermal Radiation).mbd

[Duckbutler]

34 minutes ago, Meknomancer said:

 

 

Bit late, this is what i've been running. Not great but it is fun and does just fine for 90% of stuff:

 

 

 

DEMONS THERMAL - Mastermind (Demon Summoning - Thermal Radiation).mbd 44.16 kB · 0 downloads

 

No worries, thanks for the reply! I will take a look when I circle back to this character.

[StrikerFox]

I have a Demons/Thermal and it's built similar to yours. It plays well but I feel it's not as enjoyable as other MM combos. Merc/Storm, Thugs/Time, Necro/Dark, Bots/Traps and Beast/TA. I've been thinking about respec to add the new Dark Mastery pool for Murky Cloud (Instead of Scorpion Shield). It's possible to get +75% res to S/L/F/C/E/N with MC. Toxic and Psionic res will be on the weaker side. I also want to pick up Dark Pit. It's an AoE stun that sounds similar to Howling Twilight (Without the rez/slow/fear). I actually love HT, use it frequently just for the stun and imagine Dark Pit will be the same.

 

I added Murky Cloud to your build just for a better idea of what I'm talking about. Swapped out the Shield Breaker set for Analyze Weakness in Melt Armor to top up S/L res. Dropped the odd IO that were chasing F/C/E/N res since MC capped them already. Also tried to bump up Psionic res a bit with the Impervium Armor +Psionic res (It's not a unique) but those slots could probably be served better elsewhere:

 

Mastermind (Demon Summoning - Thermal Radiation) SFA.mbd

[TheSpiritFox]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:35 AM, Duckbutler said:

I'm trying to get out of my melee/tank wheelhouse a little bit and pick up something else that's more support oriented. I had a thermal corruptor back in the day and she was pretty great (if sadly team dependent) so I thought I would give it a whirl on mastermind. So far this character is pretty great! Right now it's in the early 30's and riding common IOs with 2 pet unique passives.

 

My question is more looking for general mastermind build advice/strategy/theory.

 

I look across both sets together and I see a bunch of stuff in the mastermind primary I probably want to 6 slot. Which is fine on slots, a lot of the secondary looks like it'll be okay with 4 or fewer slots except maybe the heals. In this particular case I think I want to push the pet resists up as much as I can. That makes it tempting to start frankenslotting the pets to get as many of the pet globals as possible, but then I get concerned I'm going to lose out on set bonuses and the MM themself isn't going to be as durable as I'd like. Plus hey, the pets need the accuracy/damage/endurance from the normal enhancements. So then I wonder if Hell on Earth should be muling passives from the sets I don't want to use. It loses some efficacy as a power in its own right, but maybe that's okay because it doesn't seem great anyway.

 

Does this all seem like sound build logic? Am I silly for worrying about the set bonuses or personal durability on the MM? Silly for other reasons?

You can fit the two ATO uniques into your first level demons. 4 slot command of the mastermind 2 slot mark of supremacy for 2 10% rech bonuses, two pet uniques, and you can still pull 95% damage and more than 60% accuracy out of slotting. 

 

You can put 3 hami os Acc/Dam, two +5 resist IOs, and another unique into your Lt pets

 

Then hell on earth 6 slot with your remaining 3 uniques, one +5 acc io for the little hellspawns, and two +5 rech IOs

Then the remaining 4 mark of supremacy IOs, OF Kb proc, and a slow damage proc into the prince. 

 

Then yeah thermal you could get away with 3 slotting the resist powers, but Id recommend 4 for the melee bonus on Unbreakable guard. You could also consider throwing in a 5th slot into each for the two 3% defense uniques for you personally. 

 

And yes I 5 slot both heals with panacea for the recharge bonus. 

 

My biggest other recommendation is that I feel like for thermal and cold, Rune of Protection from the sorcery pool is flat out not optional. Thermal has zero protection for the actual mastermind (Its absolute bullshit, imo, that you can place shields on everyone but yourself) and while thats not so bad damage wise because of bodyguard, its absolutely TERMINAL because of crowd control. It doesn't matter how strong your pets are, they WILL die if youre held for a solid minute unable to heal or do anything else while your pets die around you. Rune of protection is your "Fuck you youre not gonna hold me to death, assholes" button. 

Edited April 19 by TheSpiritFox

[Duckbutler]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:51 PM, TheSpiritFox said:

My biggest other recommendation is that I feel like for thermal and cold, Rune of Protection from the sorcery pool is flat out not optional. Thermal has zero protection for the actual mastermind (Its absolute bullshit, imo, that you can place shields on everyone but yourself) and while thats not so bad damage wise because of bodyguard, its absolutely TERMINAL because of crowd control. It doesn't matter how strong your pets are, they WILL die if youre held for a solid minute unable to heal or do anything else while your pets die around you. Rune of protection is your "Fuck you youre not gonna hold me to death, assholes" button. 

 

I'm circling back around to this character. I could probably take my inspiration manipulation macros for melee damage to funnel everything into damage boost and use them to create more hold protection if that's a real concern. Just getting two more of the pet resist/defense uniques made the pets much more durable, but yeah there was a point where they all ran off for some reason and I didn't know just how far the pets had gone and I really felt that squishiness. It's still better solo than my old fire/thermal corruptor on the live servers, though!

[Duckbutler]

The character is now level 50. I gave him a costume makeover and a new name and I'm pretty happy with that part!

 

I took some of the advice from this thread and added hasten. I can really see where, yeah, Thermal likes the recharge for Forge, Melt Armor, and Heat Exhaustion. I dropped Thaw to pick it up. I also went with Murky Cloud as a temporary placeholder until I got Scorpion Shield and I think I'm just going to leave it be. Most resistances are going to settle in somewhere in the 50-60% range while I have maybe 20%-ish positional defenses. I'm okay with this. The point of the character is to team and I wouldn't be playing Thermal otherwise.  I'm not trying to tank, I'm just trying not to get (effectively) one-shot.

 

Incarnates -

Alpha: Musculature really helps fill out pets and make up for the uniques slotted in them.

Lore: ??? (Demons are supposed to be bad. The Ravager from Banished Pantheon is a good mega-demon and Knives of Vengeance make good pseudo-angels).

Interface: Reactive radial, more fire and -res. Totally willing to go a different route if someone says this is dumb.

Destiny: Clarion core, see below

Hybrid: Support core, seems obvious.

 

Trying to take a queue from TheSpiritFox regarding mez being the real killer and pick up Clarion when the time comes. I looked into Rune of Protection and I had to sacrifice too many other power picks I wanted to make it happen. Spirit Ward is interesting in its own right and I'm already taking Fly so that's a no brainer swap for Mystic Flight. However, the absorb from Spirit Ward seems less useful on a healing focused set. I'd have to either drop both attacks I'm taking (which is sad, the whip is fun!) or have it cut into the personal defense toggles. Since I'm also dropping Thaw and don't have any mez protection for the team, I'm going to grab Clarion and then just cover everyone, self and pets included.

 

I also made some macros to funnel inspirations into blues to help with endurance costs. Endurance seems fine... until I'm called on to heal a lot and also replace pets or shields. I based these macros on some from the brute forum. The advice there was to turn off large inspirations, mez prots, and rezzes, then convert everything but heals into damage. I wish I'd had these when I started the character so I am sharing them here:

 

Level 1

/macro_image "Inspiration_Endurance_Lvl_1" "Blue" "inspcombine Sturdy Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Insight Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Luck Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Break_Free Catch_A_Breath$$inspcombine Enrage Catch_A_Breath"

 

Level 2

/macro_image "Inspiration_Endurance_Lvl_2" "Bluer" "inspcombine Keen_Insight Take_A_Breather$$inspcombine Focused_Rage Take_A_Breather$$inspcombine Rugged Take_A_Breather$$inspcombine Good_Luck Take_A_Breather"

 

Eat them:

/macro_image "Inspiration_Endurance_Lvl_3" "Ahhh" "insp_exec_name Catch_A_Breath$$insp_exec_name Take_A_Breather$$insp_exec_name Righteous_Rage"