A different build for Stone/Rad

[DarkRevelation]

I haven't been back long, and this is the first build I am sharing since starting playing at Homecoming. I played after launch, and then came back years later in 2011 and played again. My username comes from the fact that it was a 'dark revelation' that my Spines/Regen scrapper was a better tank than my Inv/SS tank (pre-nerf). It stuck, and I have used it in games since. I have always loved Inv/Fire tanks, and came around to feel the same about Stone a ways back.  Rad fascinates me, and @Spaghetti Betty's Air Fryer build is the most fun I have had playing a tank in a long time. I have enjoyed learning from each of  all of y'alls posted builds over the past few months.  Y'all have a lot of really nice ideas. Without those it would have been very tough to 'catch up'.  Thank you all for contributing and helping folk by posting your builds.

 

With that said, I wanted to take a look at Stone and what could I do with it. I seem to champion lost causes (I am trying to recreate my poor, poor Spines/Regen scrapper as a brute, uggh) and wanted to look at Granite again. People dismiss it, and I understand why, but I wanted to take a deeper dive into it to see what all I could squeak out of it. When this started I wanted to see if I could make a very cheap granite build with just IOs, and you will see that I totally went off of the tracks with this, and ended up with an expensive build.

 

This ended up being something where I wanted to see if I could build something that could survive most things solo. I wanted to go beyond the 'this will survive 99% of content'. I had hoped to post a screenshot of the build, but it didn't work out. I'll go over some of what I did and why.

 

-Roughly 50% def to S/L, 47% to F/C/E/N, 17% to Tox/Psi

- Capped on Resistance to everything but Psi, which is at 5%.  I'll explain later how I worked around the Psi hole. Toxic is at 84% w/o Earth's Embrace, but I have EE perma'ed, so we will count it at way over 90%.

-Capped HP, and actually over by a decent amount. It is something I wanted to look at eventually to see if I could take those bonuses and move the elsewhere, but I haven't got around to it yet. 

-Regen at 94-96 HP/s (there is a difference with MIDS vs the game), with more available if needed. I'll expound on that in a bit.

-95% Debuff resistance to Recharge, which is crucial to this build.

 

I am a perma-hasten builder usually, and not having it drives me nuts. So why take granite you ask?  Well, this is part of the 'squeak out' thing I was talking about earlier. I wanted to take the things people hate about granite and see what I could do with them. So I tried to work around them, and finally am happy with the results. Y'all have this nice 'proc' thing now which we didn't have back then, and it is very interesting for builds. I did the following:

-Proc'ed damage isn't affected by granite's damage penalty, or other damage penalties. It is the same for when you get a SS rage dump and can still hit for damage. I proc'ed Mud Pots, IG and Atom Smasher. I'm not a blaster but the damage is ok, especially for granite. The issue I had was with endurance when I didn't slot my Ageless Core Epiphany (more on that later), so I had to use some IOs on some powers for accuracy and endurance discount. I couldn't find a HO with that combination. There is one for Acc/End Modification, but that didn't help me. I need discount, not modification. Please let me know if I am wrong and there is some kind of HO that would work for this. 

- I put a FF proc in Energy Torrent to get as close to perma-hasten as I can. I can keep hasten close to perma, if not perma'ed, if I have a lot of mobs, if not and I am fighting a solo mob, it will be just under a minute to get hasten back at the worst case scenario. Energy Torrent isn't Foot Stomp, but it isn't terrible either for the proc. 

 

I am very thankful for the test server, as it is invaluable to building. As for testing this, I am still learning the new content so I am limited by what I know. I tried to come up with ugly scenarios and drop myself into them. I didn't find much that could do a lot of damage to me, with a few exceptions that are interesting. I did the 54 Cimerorans without issue, letting them stand there and floor my defense. The res/healing is too much for them, even in large packs of 20+. I have done the fire-S/L farms, no issues at all there. I dipped into the 801 AE missions, which are very interesting. I only went through 801.0-801.3, but the only time I ran into trouble was grabbing three spawns/packs. I  was a bit embarrassed to have to eat a green, and wasn't sure why at the time that I got hit so much all of a sudden. 

 

It wasn't until I took this one to 'The Hive' that I figured out what was happening. 1-8 of the Giant Monsters is nothing, they don't budge the health bar really. An occasional tick, but nothing bad. Any damage is mitigated by res/healing. To test it further I dropped into the large 'gathering' of DE Giant Monsters. One of them is listed for badges as "The Sound of Thunder". It is what you use to kill giant monsters to get Hami to spawn. I believe I counted 16 Giant Monsters, and 6 smaller helpers, plus the various Swarms. I was doing fine when all of a sudden I am watching my health bar tick down in visibly noticeable ticks. I keep a monitor of my defense/resistance/healing rate open at all times, and I didn't see anything that was reduced. I popped some greens and TP'ed away. I ended up doing this multiple times and long story short, figured out what was causing it by having every category of log for combat available in a different tab. I could see in the logs 'Thorn had a 95% chance to hit...' ,which was puzzling, as I knew my defense was not dropped, at all. All of those mobs were hitting their streakbuster in order, and roughly at the same time. Getting hit by 16+ GMs at once is rough. Same thing went for three packs of insane 801 mobs, streakbuster is a PITA. There is a way to deal with this though. 

 

99+% of the time in, let's call it non-ultra content, I will use the Ageless Core Epiphany in my Destiny slot, even with this build. For that ultra-content I slot the Rebirth Radial Epiphany, which I included on the build I posted. That will push you way over the regen cap, for a nice 'oh shit' button. If anyone ever asks why we don't have regen for a tank, you can point to this as an example of why. It will get you past almost anything for 10 seconds, and then reduces again at 30, 60 and finally ends after 120 seconds where it is ready to go again. I use the Spiritual Core Paragon for the Alpha, which gives 45% recharge, 33% to healing, plus 33% to stuns. That is necessary to try to try to get as close to perma-hasten as possible. I use the Assault Radial Embodiment for double-hit, as that works on procs. I have tried the Melee, and use them on other characters, but I couldn't get enough out of them for the Psi hole, so I abandoned that and went in another direction.

Edit - I use the untouchable Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally, as it helps with recharge and they can't hit it. I didn't put that in the build file.

 

The Psi hole; each set has a hole and this is no exception. There are two ways to deal with it that I have found. The first is just to suck it up and if you know you are getting into something with Psi mobs, slot the Rebirth Radial Epiphany. I tested with Arachnos packs and didn't need to use it, even though it sounded like I was being taunted a few times a second at points. The regular regen covered those large packs. Second, and this is 'different', but you can drop out of granite and keep 'Minerals' up. With this build you have more than 45% defense to Psi with granite down and Minerals running.  I tested this on a 4x8  Maria Jenkins mission with almost all Psi, the "Malaise" mission, as well as the one with Penelope Yin and Mother Mayhem. I had no issues on either. The regen was more than enough to catch whatever got through. I have not tested it in the Shadow Shard, as I hated that place way back when and if I never go back I will be fine with it. Mostly joking.....mostly. I will try to test it though out there eventually. The jet packs you can get now will correct some of the misery from the past with trying to get around that place with Super Jump as your travel power. 

 

I rambled on a bit too long, but builds are fun. Take a look at the build and let me know what you think.

 

 

 

Tanker - Stony Simona - granite v5 - Tanker (Stone Armor - Radiation Melee) - Copy.mbd

Edited April 15 by DarkRevelation

[DarkRevelation]

I wasn't able to upload a pic earlier. Here is what it looks like. 

[DarkRevelation]

and what it looks like when you need that 'oh shit' regen from Rebirth Radial Epiphany

 

Edited April 15 by DarkRevelation

[Warboss]

The hits probably came from "To Hits" buffs from the mobs. I don't recall all the powers that GMs have in the hive, but I'm sure they're packing something. A couple other mobs to test with would be CoT, Carnies and the infamous Malta (although Malta likely won't be a big issue, since I think Rooted takes care of the Endurance Drain). I'm not a SA guru so hopefully some others that are more familiar with the set will stop by with some ideas. Also if you can find some 54 DE you could test the "To Hit" possibility a bit more. There's also Longbow or Vanguard... I can never remember, but one or both of those groups come with pretty big buffs and debuffs, so would be good for testing.

[Hyperstrike]

Honestly, I've played Stoners of all sorts.  And I had my fun.
But with the current iteration of the game, there's NOTHING you can do with a Stoner with IDENTICAL (or better) stats that something like a tricked out Invuln can't do identically (only FASTER).

[DarkRevelation]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:13 AM, Hyperstrike said:

Honestly, I've played Stoners of all sorts.  And I had my fun.
But with the current iteration of the game, there's NOTHING you can do with a Stoner with IDENTICAL (or better) stats that something like a tricked out Invuln can't do identically (only FASTER).

Invuln tanks will always be my favorite, and I looked at your 'Mo Durable' build(s) when I first came back. They are obviously well thought out and I think would do a great job on most things in the game. 

 

What I like about this particular stone build is that 'what you see is what you get'. There are no power cool-downs involved, no incarnate powers on a 2 min timer necessary to hit those numbers, and no need to use jab to keep 6% of the resistance going. It doesn't need any of that. It just is that, without other help needed. Hasten is as close to perma as possible without sacrificing other things.  Add in perma-Earth's Embrace and regen in the mid 90s without any assistance, and a lot left in reserve if you do need it. No matter what happens, that is your baseline. 

 

I have been playing around with @Linea's 801 maps, which are a beast all unto themselves. They are unlike anything seen in game, and I appreciate the difficulty. It would be interesting to see how the builds stack up against something REALLY difficult. 

 

Adding the debuff resistance for information.

 

[Spaghetti Betty]

/Rad would not be my first choice for a Granite build. It might be a bit late now, but you could always consider pairing with something that has access to a lot of FF procs to mitigate the RECH debuff.

 

Proc Rock (Stone/SS) and Flipping Granite (Stone/MA) are the most popular choices, while Axe has made a comeback after being the legacy classic for a long time.

[Spaghetti Betty]

I think if I were to run this combo with a focus on Granite, it would look something like this!

 

Tanker (Stone Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd

[DarkRevelation]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

/Rad would not be my first choice for a Granite build. It might be a bit late now, but you could always consider pairing with something that has access to a lot of FF procs to mitigate the RECH debuff.

 

Proc Rock (Stone/SS) and Flipping Granite (Stone/MA) are the most popular choices, while Axe has made a comeback after being the legacy classic for a long time.

 

Yes, that character is around vet level 360, so a little late, lol.

 

I glad you brought up Axe, as I have a question. How do you deal with the constant knockback as a melee character? I was leveling a Rad/Axe tank and around the IP level range I started knocking them back, like way back. I looked like a cat chasing a laser pointer running mobs down. Outside of using a "Sudden Acceleration" KB to KD, or the Overwhelming Force enhancement, which both can mess up slotting, I guess you just live with it? It is a shame, as Axe has a lot of potential. I just hate running after mobs over and over and over. 

[DarkRevelation]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I think if I were to run this combo with a focus on Granite, it would look something like this!

 

Tanker (Stone Armor - Radiation Melee).mbd 42.94 kB · 2 downloads

 

That is awesome! Thank you for posting that build. I love checking these out to see how people look at hitting goals/objectives and the different ways to get there.

 

I tried to slot a FF in Radioactive Smash, and spent a good bit of time with it on auto-fire testing. It had some dismal results, and I attributed them to the small recharge time. It is why I had to go outside of the RM set to find better results, like I have seen you do with Cross Punch (which btw that sounds is fun to hear... I don't know why, but it makes me laugh each time I hear it). Energy Torrent is not terrible, hits multiple mobs (the key), and procs FF a lot. If you have to run down that Epic path ever give it a shot. I am trying to work up a Spines/Regen brute for old times sake, and running into the same thing with Spines; no FF procs outside of Ripper.  

 

I really like how you used the chance for res/absorbs in your always on powers, like Mud Pots, Rooted and IG. I utilize that as well, as things happen, chains get messed up, and I don't want to rely on using a click for an absorb or resistance. 

 

I have also learned from your builds, and getting back into the game, how important the recharge debuff resistance is. You are on of the only ones who builds specifically for that, at least where it is noticeable to me, and I think you are on the mark. I really like perma-hasten/perma-dull pain/perma-Earth's Embrace, which is why I am having issues with my Invuln tanks, as I want 'Mo Durable' defense/resists plus perma-hasten and a high regen.  I hate to compromise certain things on a build, so I am spinning my wheels. I'll figure it out  eventually. I guess the days of needing to have Dull Pain up 100% as a Spines/Regen scrapper have left an impression still felt 20 years later. 

 

I'll take your build to the test server and give it a spin this weekend. Thank you again. 

 

 

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, DarkRevelation said:

I glad you brought up Axe, as I have a question. How do you deal with the constant knockback as a melee character? I was leveling a Rad/Axe tank and around the IP level range I started knocking them back, like way back. I looked like a cat chasing a laser pointer running mobs down. Outside of using a "Sudden Acceleration" KB to KD, or the Overwhelming Force enhancement, which both can mess up slotting, I guess you just live with it? It is a shame, as Axe has a lot of potential. I just hate running after mobs over and over and over. 

 

Axe powers only deal KD (except for Swoop), so if you are experiencing this, it's because you're either fighting Clockwork, mobs that are weaker than you, or slotting for KB, which you shouldn't do!

 

50 minutes ago, DarkRevelation said:

I tried to slot a FF in Radioactive Smash, and spent a good bit of time with it on auto-fire testing. It had some dismal results, and I attributed them to the small recharge time

 

It is a very small chance. At 7 sec base recharge, procs don't have a great chance to fire in Rad Smash, but we need something! That's why Cross Punch is a good compliment to it. Cross Punch gives a small bump to your recharge on hit, and thanks to inflated Tanker AoEs, will have a great chance of firing FF proc in a mob. My hope is the build above can run Rad Siphon -> Cross Punch -> Rad Smash -> Ring of Fire with Char peppered in as a utility bomber.

 

52 minutes ago, DarkRevelation said:

I have also learned from your builds, and getting back into the game, how important the recharge debuff resistance is. You are on of the only ones who builds specifically for that, at least where it is noticeable to me, and I think you are on the mark. I really like perma-hasten/perma-dull pain/perma-Earth's Embrace, which is why I am having issues with my Invuln tanks, as I want 'Mo Durable' defense/resists plus perma-hasten and a high regen.  I hate to compromise certain things on a build, so I am spinning my wheels. I'll figure it out  eventually. I guess the days of needing to have Dull Pain up 100% as a Spines/Regen scrapper have left an impression still felt 20 years later. 

 

Building is a fun game of gives and takes! I usually have to compromise on a lot in order to hit my unreasonable expectation of high Slow RES! Typically, I usually end up losing out on tons of good set bonuses. My global RECH is usually a fake number, my toons never have a lot of Max HP (unless they are already kitted with it), and anything that isn't a Tank ends up being pretty frail.

 

But that's how I like to play!

[DarkRevelation]

14 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

 

Axe powers only deal KD (except for Swoop), so if you are experiencing this, it's because you're either fighting Clockwork, mobs that are weaker than you, or slotting for KB, which you shouldn't do!

 

They must have been lower level. I'll take a look at that character again, as it was starting to get interesting. 

 

You have given me a terrible idea for TT though, lol. 6 slotted KB enhancements for all available powers and listen to the screams of Tankers chasing mobs! We could also play Tanker Tennis if you like. 

 

15 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

It is a very small chance. At 7 sec base recharge, procs don't have a great chance to fire in Rad Smash, but we need something! That's why Cross Punch is a good compliment to it. Cross Punch gives a small bump to your recharge on hit, and thanks to inflated Tanker AoEs, will have a great chance of firing FF proc in a mob. My hope is the build above can run Rad Siphon -> Cross Punch -> Rad Smash -> Ring of Fire with Char peppered in as a utility bomber.

 

 

Again, it is interesting to see how different people look at things differently. I primarily use Atom Smasher with Energy Torrent, and will mix in whittling down a boss/EB with single target if they are not dead by that point. 

 

15 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

 

Building is a fun game of gives and takes! I usually have to compromise on a lot in order to hit my unreasonable expectation of high Slow RES! Typically, I usually end up losing out on tons of good set bonuses. My global RECH is usually a fake number, my toons never have a lot of Max HP (unless they are already kitted with it), and anything that isn't a Tank ends up being pretty frail.

 

But that's how I like to play!

 

It is an important thing IMO to have it, so yes, I feel your pain. Thankfully we have the test server with the ability to import enhancements straight from MIDS, which is invaluable I have found. It makes that process of testing much faster. The "Freebies" mod certainly helps tremendously as well.