Suggestions to help with the Name Release Deilemma

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

I'd wager you'd very, very rarely ever see this, if ever at all.

I'll take that bet. I've already seen it happen several times when I was playing CO. Not constantly, not frequently, and not commonly, but relatively routinely.

[Excraft]

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'll take that bet. I've already seen it happen several times when I was playing CO. Not constantly, not frequently, and not commonly, but relatively routinely.

 

That's a really large stretch given the extremely tiny number of players in CO, which is still probably more players than are here.  Regardless, it proves that the code change to make names non-unique works and anyone can have a name they want. 

 

I've seen it in STO myself, but again, that's people making clones of Kirk and Picard.  It's rare to the point of being non-existent.  I can't remember the last time I've even seen that, and that game has way more players than HC does. 

Edited May 1 by Excraft

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

That's a really large stretch given the extremely tiny number of players in CO, which is still probably more players than are here.  Regardless, it proves that the code change to make names non-unique works and anyone can have a name they want. 

 

I've seen it in STO myself, but again, that's people making clones of Kirk and Picard.  It's rare to the point of being non-existent.  I can't remember the last time I've even seen that, and that game has way more players than HC does. 

Sure, but in STO your character is most likely going to have an actual name. And there are a lot of names across all nationalities and languages for players to pick from. In super hero games, players tend to congregate around more specific names. Especially when inspired to play certain concepts based on their favorite character(s) in comics. I can't even count the number of Son Gokus, Vegetas, Crimsons, Midnights, Chaos, Havocs,  and Twilights I encountered in CO. And on the same team. So in my experience, there tends to be more overlap. Not a lot of it, but it was definitely there. (I'm guilty of being one of those Crimsons.)

 

Edit: I like the idea of being able to use whatever name I want without fear of it being reserved by another player, but there is an issue with it. Admittedly minor, but still. If I see someone with a really impressive costume and they just zipped off before I could click them to message them, when I do a search for who that was to message? I would often find 2 or more globals to choose from for that character. This wasn't a multiples of that name on the team bit, but it was still a "I either have to message all of them and ask if they were the one with the impressive costume until I find the right one, randomly compliment them all without having seen the others, or just give up giving out compliments". (You get three guesses which one I chose each time.)

Edited May 1 by Rudra

[Captain Fabulous]

I have given this some thought over the past few months and came up with an idea to easily implement an STO/CO style naming system that doesn't require restructuring the database. It can all be done in the client itself.

Allow a symbol, such as #, to be used as a name delimiter, by which you can then add a series of alphanumeric characters after to create a unique name. But the client will only display up to the # symbol. For example:

You want the name "Fire Bolt". It's taken. You instead use "Fire Bolt#7". Not taken, so it's accepted. And in-game, in almost all areas of the UI, it shows simply as "Fire Bolt", with the #7 hidden from view. VOILA! Now everyone can have a character named Fire Bolt if they wish. As far as the game is concerned your name will always be "Fire Bolt#7", so all systems will work normally and as expected, it's just that the client hides the modifier in-game. It's nearly exactly the same behavior at STO/CO (where the modifier is your entire @ name), just done in a far more simplistic and easy way.

Are there a few downsides and limitations to this? Of course, but they're minimal and highly situational (and in some cases already exist today and no one complains about), which in perspective are all pretty trivial if it means a vast proliferation and availability of names. Ultimately the devs will need to decide exactly where in the UI your name including the modifier would be shown to others, but IMO it should be limited to as few places as possible, e.g. the character info window and perhaps SG roster, both of which could use a "show full name" checkbox option to only show the modifier on-demand.

Now I eagerly await the name campers here crying about how this is the most terrible idea they've ever heard and how I'm a monster for even suggesting anything ever change. Sorry kids, but "jUsT bE mOrE cReAtIvE" or "uSe A tHeSaUruS" isn't the answer, and it's high time we all admit the current system as-is is unsustainable (there's a reason Cryptic changed the system for STO/CO after all). Something needs to be done to fix this growing problem, and the sooner the better.

[Ghost]

I actually like that idea @Captain Fabulous

 

One change I would make is to have the system assign you the number after #.

That way you can see exactly how many “Fire Bolts” are actually running around.  You may decide that you don’t want the same name as 325 other players.

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Sure, but in STO your character is most likely going to have an actual name. And there are a lot of names across all nationalities and languages for players to pick from.

 

There's nothing stopping anyone from creating or using an "actual" name here either. You can also use words and/or phrases from other languages and nationalities to pick from here.  I assure you, the game is in no danger whatsoever of running out of word combinations to create names with.  Every single day I log on here, I'm seeing new names that are unique, clever, funny and creative. 

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I like the idea of being able to use whatever name I want without fear of it being reserved by another player, but there is an issue with it. Admittedly minor, but still. If I see someone with a really impressive costume and they just zipped off before I could click them to message them, when I do a search for who that was to message? I would often find 2 or more globals to choose from for that character. This wasn't a multiples of that name on the team bit, but it was still a "I either have to message all of them and ask if they were the one with the impressive costume until I find the right one, randomly compliment them all without having seen the others, or just give up giving out compliments". (You get three guesses which one I chose each time.)

 

This is so far beyond trivial an issue that it's not even worth noting to be honest.  If you liked the costume that much, take a screenshot. 

Edited May 1 by Excraft

[Captain Fabulous]

41 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I actually like that idea @Captain Fabulous

 

One change I would make is to have the system assign you the number after #.

That way you can see exactly how many “Fire Bolts” are actually running around.  You may decide that you don’t want the same name as 325 other players.

I don't object to this idea.  👍

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Excraft said:

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

I like the idea of being able to use whatever name I want without fear of it being reserved by another player, but there is an issue with it. Admittedly minor, but still. If I see someone with a really impressive costume and they just zipped off before I could click them to message them, when I do a search for who that was to message? I would often find 2 or more globals to choose from for that character. This wasn't a multiples of that name on the team bit, but it was still a "I either have to message all of them and ask if they were the one with the impressive costume until I find the right one, randomly compliment them all without having seen the others, or just give up giving out compliments". (You get three guesses which one I chose each time.)

 

This is so far beyond trivial an issue that it's not even worth noting to be honest.  If you liked the costume that much, take a screenshot. 

And this so misses my point it is mind boggling. (See? I can do that too.) Anyway, my point wasn't that I wanted to take a screen shot or follow that character or anything beyond sending that player a compliment. But hey, if you don't want people getting random compliments on their character design, that's fine too. I'm not going to chase a character down to give them a compliment. (Anymore. Did that twice on CO because I felt the player's design was that good. Takes way more effort than any compliment is worth bothering over.) So if this gets implemented, I'll limit my compliments or questions to players I'm teamed with.

 

Edit: Besides, my own post you are quoting shows I admit it is a minor thing.

Edited May 1 by Rudra

[Excraft]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

Edit: Besides, my own post you are quoting shows I admit it is a minor thing.

 

If it's so minor a thing and so minor it's not an issue, why even bring it up in the first place? 

[Excraft]

@Captain Fabulous, your idea is a good one and I'd support it.  I'm not sure the code here will allow the # sign to be used in names that way.  I'm thinking it's probably a whole lot more coding than most would think.  Still a good idea though!

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

If it's so minor a thing and so minor it's not an issue, why even bring it up in the first place? 

I didn't say it wasn't an issue. I said it was minor. There's a difference.

 

Edit: I'll spell it out. When everyone can have the same name, there is going to be a percentage of players that use popular names. When players that use the same name play at the same time, you can't PM them unless you already know which one you are trying to talk to. Which you can't do if they aren't the one(s) posting in Broadcast or near you in Local, and they don't stay there long enough for you to go "Hey! I want to compliment the player for their character design." or "I have a question about their character concept." or any other reason and then click them to open their information page and hopefully find out their global to PM, when doing a character search shows you multiple characters running around with the same name. Even in the same zone. This isn't hypothetical. This happened to me on the regular in CO. It's why I both love and hate their system. I love it because anyone can have any name at any time. I hate it because trying to find a specific person can be a royal pain and not worth the hassle. That is still an issue. It's a minor one in the grand scheme of things, but still an issue.

 

Edit again:

22 hours ago, Excraft said:

There's nothing stopping anyone from creating or using an "actual" name here either. You can also use words and/or phrases from other languages and nationalities to pick from here.  I assure you, the game is in no danger whatsoever of running out of word combinations to create names with.  Every single day I log on here, I'm seeing new names that are unique, clever, funny and creative. 

Correct, we can use actual names for our characters in CoX. I do for many of my characters, for instance. However, it is because players want the same names and not any other version of that name or any other name that we are having this discussion. On the same server otherwise the name would have been free. Which means my point is going to occur.

Edited May 2 by Rudra

[Player2]

On 5/1/2024 at 2:05 PM, Captain Fabulous said:

I have given this some thought over the past few months and came up with an idea to easily implement an STO/CO style naming system that doesn't require restructuring the database. It can all be done in the client itself.

Allow a symbol, such as #, to be used as a name delimiter, by which you can then add a series of alphanumeric characters after to create a unique name. But the client will only display up to the # symbol. For example:

You want the name "Fire Bolt". It's taken. You instead use "Fire Bolt#7". Not taken, so it's accepted. And in-game, in almost all areas of the UI, it shows simply as "Fire Bolt", with the #7 hidden from view. VOILA! Now everyone can have a character named Fire Bolt if they wish. As far as the game is concerned your name will always be "Fire Bolt#7", so all systems will work normally and as expected, it's just that the client hides the modifier in-game. It's nearly exactly the same behavior at STO/CO (where the modifier is your entire @ name), just done in a far more simplistic and easy way.

Are there a few downsides and limitations to this? Of course, but they're minimal and highly situational (and in some cases already exist today and no one complains about), which in perspective are all pretty trivial if it means a vast proliferation and availability of names. Ultimately the devs will need to decide exactly where in the UI your name including the modifier would be shown to others, but IMO it should be limited to as few places as possible, e.g. the character info window and perhaps SG roster, both of which could use a "show full name" checkbox option to only show the modifier on-demand.

Now I eagerly await the name campers here crying about how this is the most terrible idea they've ever heard and how I'm a monster for even suggesting anything ever change. Sorry kids, but "jUsT bE mOrE cReAtIvE" or "uSe A tHeSaUruS" isn't the answer, and it's high time we all admit the current system as-is is unsustainable (there's a reason Cryptic changed the system for STO/CO after all). Something needs to be done to fix this growing problem, and the sooner the better.

Genius.

 

23 hours ago, Ghost said:

I actually like that idea @Captain Fabulous

 

One change I would make is to have the system assign you the number after #.

That way you can see exactly how many “Fire Bolts” are actually running around.  You may decide that you don’t want the same name as 325 other players.

Excellent.

 

3 hours ago, Excraft said:

@Captain Fabulous, your idea is a good one and I'd support it.  I'm not sure the code here will allow the # sign to be used in names that way.  I'm thinking it's probably a whole lot more coding than most would think.  Still a good idea though!

First off, the suggestion was to "Allow a symbol, such as #, to be used as a name delimiter," which means if for some reason that symbol can't be used then use a different one. Secondly, the code as it is won't allow the # sign to be used in that way or any way; that is why additional coding would have to be done.  Can it be done?  I'd argue that almost anything could be done.  Does the HC team have someone capable of doing it?  I can't say; but I will point out that we used to not be able to do asymmetrical boots, gloves, and shoulder pieces in the costume creator but now we have it because someone figured out a way around the existing game code that made those body locations a single symmetrical costume choice.  It is entirely possible that someone also possesses the knowhow to implement an idea like this one... but the only way to know would be for them to actually try it to determine if they can or cannot.

 

And then comes the issue of what happens if they can make it work?  Possibly a flood of same names in the same zone?  "I am Spartacus!"  "No, I am Spartacus!"  "No, me!"

 

So allow me to add my own suggestion to the mix:

 

Display only the characters up to the delimiter symbol but only in specific circumstances.  For example, don't hide anything in LFG, private messages, or league chat... maybe also leave everything revealed in search windows.  This way, if Captain Awesome(#11) is being a bit of a jerk and someone goes and makes Captain Awesome(#28) and starts sending private messages to people to make it look like the other one is being an even bigger jerk by harassing or violating TOS, the person(s) receiving such messages can immediately identify when they are sending a report to the GMs that #28 is the problem individual.  Also, LFG channel definitely, because just having part of the name hidden doesn't mean you don't have to enter it for sending a private message to the correct individual.  So if Captain Awesome(#8) put out LFG message to form a team for trial or something else and someone logs out to get on a different character for that team, they don't have to figure out which of like six or maybe more Captain Awesomes to send a tell to for invite request.  League chat.  Let's assume you have 3 different Captain Awesomes in your league and one of the is the main tank... so when the league leader says wait for Captain Awesome's signal, maybe not have confusion over which one he's talking about.

 

The symbol and number would be added on automatically if you right click on a character or their name in the team, league, or chat window... but there are times when it would be handy to know who's speaking.  Honestly, as I'm typing this out, I think the best solution is to use a less intrusive symbol like the underscore to separate the hidden number from the rest of the name and leave the full name with number visible in team and league windows, as well as most chat channels.  But hide the number and symbol over the character's head and in things like Local and NPC channels.  "Oh no, Captain Awesome_94 is here!  Get him!!" just isn't necessary and is entirely what hiding extraneous name stuff is about.

 

[Player2]

Just an afterthought... personally, I would like the hidden symbol and number to be as accessible as possible.  I think just hiding it in the bare minimum of channels and over the character's head are all that's necessary.  If you are accepting being the second, third, or two-hundred and fiftieth iteration of a character, let other players be aware of who you are. Be the awesome teammate that they remember... instead of "Just another one of those Captain Awesomes" in a crowd, be "Captain Awesome_51 is the best Captain Awesome. Change my mind!"

[Captain Fabulous]

4 hours ago, Excraft said:

@Captain Fabulous, your idea is a good one and I'd support it.  I'm not sure the code here will allow the # sign to be used in names that way.  I'm thinking it's probably a whole lot more coding than most would think.  Still a good idea though!

Thanks. # was just an example. It could be any character or symbol. The coding required would have the client truncate the displayed name in designated areas of the UI. But yes, some coding in the client would need to be done to accomplish this. It could be something as simple as adding a new character name string and using that where you want to see the shortened name, e.g. character_name vs character_name_short.
 

 

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

Just an afterthought... personally, I would like the hidden symbol and number to be as accessible as possible.  I think just hiding it in the bare minimum of channels and over the character's head are all that's necessary.  If you are accepting being the second, third, or two-hundred and fiftieth iteration of a character, let other players be aware of who you are. Be the awesome teammate that they remember... instead of "Just another one of those Captain Awesomes" in a crowd, be "Captain Awesome_51 is the best Captain Awesome. Change my mind!"

I'm probably of the opposite mind, that it should be visible only in very limited places (as I mentioned earlier, perhaps with a checkbox to enable/disable seeing the extension), but ultimately it's up to the devs to decide where it makes sense for it to be never be seen, always be seen, and to optionally be seen. But honestly, I think following the blueprint set by Cryptic in STO/CO would be a good starting point.

Another option would be for the full name to pop up on a mouse hover, eliminating the need for it to be permanently visible in some of the areas you've suggested. But again, just spitballing here.

Edited May 2 by Captain Fabulous

[Player2]

There is only so much that can be done even with coding.  If there is more name, then simply hiding it doesn't solve some problems... like being able to send private messages to people.  Again,  to bring up the harassment example, what's someone to do if someone else uses a more popular player's name with a hidden symbol and number system to send hostile or otherwise problematic messages to someone and they do it from another zone where you can't mouseover the player to pop up their actual name?  Making the hiding too effective opens it up to abuse.  I say let people play and have whatever name they want, but transparency should still be a thing.

 

In Marvel Comics there were like six Captain Americas over the years, and not everyone in the story knows the secret identities of all of them... so they might refer to some who they do know by also referencing a real name but those they don't know they might associate with a specific time period or just say something like "the third Captain America."  Having the number more visible would equate to this... we would all know that people using copies of a name aren't the original and can see which iteration they are.  But for gameplay purposes, the story refers to the player by name only without the hidden number and the player wouldn't see the number over their head.

 

It's really no different than if we could get a system like other games where character names are tied to the global names... but since that idea has been debunked as not possible, we just have to move on to the next one but not go overboard to where it could possibly be abused.

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

First off, the suggestion was to "Allow a symbol, such as #, to be used as a name delimiter," which means if for some reason that symbol can't be used then use a different one. Secondly, the code as it is won't allow the # sign to be used in that way or any way; that is why additional coding would have to be done.  Can it be done?  I'd argue that almost anything could be done.  Does the HC team have someone capable of doing it?  I can't say; but I will point out that we used to not be able to do asymmetrical boots, gloves, and shoulder pieces in the costume creator but now we have it because someone figured out a way around the existing game code that made those body locations a single symmetrical costume choice.  It is entirely possible that someone also possesses the knowhow to implement an idea like this one... but the only way to know would be for them to actually try it to determine if they can or cannot.

 

I understand that the # is just a place holder.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.  I'm not sure all symbols are usable in names, but the idea does have merit.  I think it's a lot more difficult than some might think to implement this idea though.

 

As far as whether HC can do it, I've no doubt they can.  They've got a great group of very smart, very talented people working on the code.  From posts I've seen them make over the years in threads around this topic, it's pretty clear at least to me that they know what they're doing.  I've no doubt they could re-code the entire engine to get it to work the way Cryptic did with their next generation engine they used for CO and STO.  It looked to me like it's less about what they can do versus what made sense to do with the limited time they have.  Re-enabling the old name release policy was the low-hanging fruit version of a fix.

 

I don't have any doubt that if they really wanted to fix the name issue once and for all through code, they could do it.  Again, they're very smart people and they know what they're doing.  It's just a matter of time and effort.  I'm not sure most people would be too happy if the HC people spent the next year or two re-coding the entire game just to fix names and didn't release any new content at all.

[Player2]

21 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I understand that the # is just a place holder.  Sorry if that wasn't clear.  I'm not sure all symbols are usable in names, but the idea does have merit.  I think it's a lot more difficult than some might think to implement this idea though.

 

The limit on symbols in names seems to be an entirely arbitrary one that the Cryptic team set, probably to keep people from doing 133t5p34k names... even though that's something they use for named boss Freakshow.  We get a couple of different symbols to use and only one at a time... not even duplicating the same one, like if I wanted to make Mr. I.P. Freely.  I could make Mr. IP Freely or Mister I.P Freely or even Mr IP Freely., but then I would probably get generic'd for the urine reference.  But can't even have two periods for a character with initials in their name.  I've never heard of an explanation for why not, so while it could be a limitation of the game code I think it's more likely an arbitrary one to prevent people from making B.A.T.M.A.N. or similar nonsense... because then they'd have to add acronyms for every name on the restricted list.  And if that's the case, adding one specific symbol with a specific function should be possible.

[Captain Fabulous]

37 minutes ago, Player2 said:

There is only so much that can be done even with coding.  If there is more name, then simply hiding it doesn't solve some problems... like being able to send private messages to people.  Again,  to bring up the harassment example, what's someone to do if someone else uses a more popular player's name with a hidden symbol and number system to send hostile or otherwise problematic messages to someone and they do it from another zone where you can't mouseover the player to pop up their actual name?  Making the hiding too effective opens it up to abuse.  I say let people play and have whatever name they want, but transparency should still be a thing.

 

In Marvel Comics there were like six Captain Americas over the years, and not everyone in the story knows the secret identities of all of them... so they might refer to some who they do know by also referencing a real name but those they don't know they might associate with a specific time period or just say something like "the third Captain America."  Having the number more visible would equate to this... we would all know that people using copies of a name aren't the original and can see which iteration they are.  But for gameplay purposes, the story refers to the player by name only without the hidden number and the player wouldn't see the number over their head.

 

It's really no different than if we could get a system like other games where character names are tied to the global names... but since that idea has been debunked as not possible, we just have to move on to the next one but not go overboard to where it could possibly be abused.

There's definitely a balance that needs to be struck, but some of what you present are issues already present in the game, such as when someone substitutes a capital I for a lowercase l (and as you can see right here the two are indistinguishable in a sans-serif font), so is that character's name you want to message Bluestar or BIuestar? Or maybe it was Blue Star? Wait, could it have been BIue Star? Oh no, but what if it's Blue-Star, BIue-Star, Blue.Star, BIue.Star, etc etc etc. You see where I'm going with this? This problem already exists and we deal with it by clicking on the name in the chat or search box to send messages or adding people to your friends list so we can always find them. And yeah, sometimes you try finding someone and you just can't. It happens. And life goes on. I have confidence the devs will (eventually) find the right balance. Again, see STO/CO.

If someone is harassing you you report them. A screenshot with time stamp is taken and the GMs can figure out who the culprit is. Also there's nothing right now that stops people from harassing and then changing their name in an attempt to avoid being caught. But the GMs have ways of finding them. That wouldn't change.

I think these are niche issues that are fairly trivial compared to the potential benefit.

[Captain Fabulous]

41 minutes ago, Excraft said:

I'm not sure most people would be too happy if the HC people spent the next year or two re-coding the entire game just to fix names and didn't release any new content at all.

To be fair, the person(s) who work on client changes are unlikely to be the same person(s) who create new powersets who are also unlikely to be the same person(s) that make costumes or create new content. But I get what you're saying.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

There's definitely a balance that needs to be struck, but some of what you present are issues already present in the game, such as when someone substitutes a capital I for a lowercase l (and as you can see right here the two are indistinguishable in a sans-serif font), so is that character's name you want to message Bluestar or BIuestar? Or maybe it was Blue Star? Wait, could it have been BIue Star? Oh no, but what if it's Blue-Star, BIue-Star, Blue.Star, BIue.Star, etc etc etc. You see where I'm going with this? This problem already exists and we deal with it by clicking on the name in the chat or search box to send messages or adding people to your friends list so we can always find them. And yeah, sometimes you try finding someone and you just can't. It happens. And life goes on. I have confidence the devs will (eventually) find the right balance. Again, see STO/CO.

Your comment has no bearing on the post you are responding to. If someone gets a tell from Bluestar, then they click the tell to respond. If they see someone named Bluestar and they want to message them, they can simply type in Bluestar for their message. And if it is BIuestar instead? That's a quick correction because only one letter in that name may be something other than what it appears to be. And if the player saw Bluestar and couldn't remember if the name was Bluestar, Blue Star, Blue-Star, or whatever? That isn't a problem with the name system, it's a problem with that player's memory. Contrast that to a name system where anything I put in parenthesis for this example is hidden and there is Bluestar(96), Bluestar(54), Bluestar(72), and Bluestar(15). Or to CO's and STO's system where you want to chat with someone you saw named Bluestar but a search turns up Bluestar@Bluestar, Bluestar@BluestarBluestar, Bluestar@TrueBluestar, and Bluestar@TheRealBlueStar. Which Bluestar did you want to talk to? You don't actually know the player and they haven't messaged you? Just click their name in chat, right? They aren't making comments in chat or more than 1 is in zone so you aren't sure if the one you want to talk to is the one posting? Then good luck.