Superman: Legacy First Look

[ZacKing]

14 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Superman leads by example through his actions, not by using his super powers to lord over anyone.

 

^ Exactly that.

[battlewraith]

27 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Superman leads by example through his actions, not by using his super powers to lord over anyone.

 

Superman stops bad guys. Like most other comic book superheroes. His actions involve flying, lifting heavy objects, heat vision, etc. 

The reasoning behind his actions is not some alien philosophy or something unique to him--it's the small town decency of the Kents. This inspirational message is something that is already part of human culture--figures like Jesus, Ghandi, etc. In fact Supes is often seen as a secularized version of Jesus. The difference is that Superman is nearly indestructible and can punch through steel. Superman is inspirational, but I don't see any real indication of him leading anything other than maybe coordinated crime fighting efforts.  

[Excraft]

39 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

His actions involve flying, lifting heavy objects, heat vision, etc. 

 

Well no, his abilities are flying, lifting heavy objects, heat vision etc.  He uses those abilities to fight crime and help people, not lord over them.

 

43 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Superman is inspirational, but I don't see any real indication of him leading anything other than maybe coordinated crime fighting efforts.

 

He's inspirational through his actions.  He doesn't need to act.  He could let Luthor or Brainiac or any other bad guy take over the world.  He doesn't.  He decides to act and use his abilities to inspire others to do good deeds.  

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

Did Lex really fake it, or is the Daily Planet trying to squash fear and distrust in Superman?

 

I would say the latter.

[Ghost]

35 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

I would say the latter.

Which if true, could lead to a very interesting storyline down the road.

[Excraft]

46 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

This just seems like a reading comprehension fail. I said his actions involve flying etc. You're just reiterating what I said. 

 

If you say so.

 

46 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

He's inspirational in that he decides to act to do good things.

 

Correct and no one here has suggested otherwise. 

 

47 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

That's not leadership, particularly in the sense of Jor-el telling him to guide humanity.

 

I take it you aren't familiar with the phrase "lead by example"?  Either that or you're trolling.  I suspect I know which.

 

48 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Supes fights crime and helps people caught up in disasters.

 

And how many ordinary people are doing that?  I guess you missed the crowds of people standing around doing nothing while Superman was doing his thing.  Only that falafel stepped in to help Superman when he was down.

[ZacKing]

21 minutes ago, Excraft said:

I take it you aren't familiar with the phrase "lead by example"? 

...

Only that falafel stepped in to help Superman when he was down.

 

Exactly!  Leading by example.  

[battlewraith]

12 minutes ago, Excraft said:

If you say so.

It's not up to me, it's just how language works.

 

14 minutes ago, Excraft said:

I take it you aren't familiar with the phrase "lead by example"?  Either that or you're trolling.  I suspect I know which.

 

You're equivocating. Lead by example as a phrase is about how people should conduct themselves. It says nothing about what people should do. 

 

27 minutes ago, Excraft said:

And how many ordinary people are doing that?  I guess you missed the crowds of people standing around doing nothing while Superman was doing his thing.  Only that falafel stepped in to help Superman when he was down.

 

What a weird thing to bring up. First of all, if a godlike being gets punched and goes flying to the ground into a crater--it's not really a good idea to be around that. Getting killed or endangered in this instance doesn't help Superman. Falafel guy's support was nice, but it didn't actually do anything. And it put him in harm's way. In reality we have police, fireman, etc. because we don't want ordinary people rushing in to help in dangerous situations--the reason being that the most likely outcome is a higher fatality rate.

 

Moreover, if you think that Superman's purpose is leading by example, then...I guess he's a failure? What depiction of Superman has involved him transforming the world by virtue of being a great role model--as opposed to punching out Brainiac?

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Let's please leaving the reading comprehension failures, trolling, and accusations of trolling to Anna Kedrick and Justin Timberlake.

 

 

Thank you.

[ZacKing]

7 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Let's please leaving the reading comprehension failures, trolling, and accusations of trolling to Anna Kedrick and Justin Timberlake.

 

If I can provide some feedback, this isn't helpful.  There are people who deliberately come into these threads looking to start arguments with the intent to get threads locked.  

[ZacKing]

Superman, like other superheroes are meant to inspire others to do good things.  

 

Their actions promote empathy toward others, provides hope, motivates others to be more altruistic and motivating us toward making ourselves better.  They show us how we can overcome challenges and help others. 

Suggesting that Superman and other heroes aren't meant to be inspiring and to encourage others to be empathetic and do good through their actions is completely and utterly wrong.

 

Heroes inspire us through their acts, which are qualities to admire. They show us how we can overcome all types of challenges and help others. The idea of a superhero and their actions is to inspire us to create a better world.   One doesn't need to have god like super powers to be a hero.

 

The falafel vendor is a great example.  The dialogue says it all.

 

"Once I gave you free falafel, when you saved a woman from being hit by a taxi. Are you all right, Superman? ... You saved us so many times. Now it’s our turn."

 

He's an ordinary guy that didn't need to do anything to help, but he stepped up.  He could have stood by and watched.  He didn't.  He put himself in harms way to act and did what he could to help Superman.  He did so because Superman inspired him to do good things.  

 

That's what superheroes do - inspire others.

 

Those aren't the only examples.

 

Batman Begins -

 

"In the depression, your father nearly bankrupted Wayne Enterprises combating poverty. He believed his example could inspire the wealthy of Gotham to save their city."

"People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy."

 

The Dark Knight -

 

"That wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I said I wanted to inspire people."  

 

Man of Steel -

 

"You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards.  They will race behind you.  They will stumble.  They will fall.  But in time they will join you in the sun.  In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."

 

I'm sure others can add more as there are a literal shit ton more examples.

 

Suggesting that Superman and other heroes aren't meant to be inspiring figures and to encourage others to be empathetic and do good through their actions is completely and utterly wrong.

[battlewraith]

2 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Suggesting that Superman and other heroes aren't meant to be inspiring figures and to encourage others to be empathetic and do good through their actions is completely and utterly wrong.

 

Who said that? Who is making that claim?

 

This whole spat seems to be centered around equivocation of the actual circumstance of being a leader and the notion of leading by example. 

Nobody is denying that Superman is a role model that inspires people. That doesn't make him an actual leader. 

Bob Ross inspired lots of people. Some people may have started art careers because of him. I've never seen any artist describe Bob as their leader.

Similarly, Supes probably inspires a lot of people to be better people. But he is not a world leader. He is not even the leader of the Justice League. 

Apart from his robots and maybe Krypto, he does not have subordinates. He does not set policy and does not order people to do things unless there is a crisis and he has to save their lives.

 

3 hours ago, ZacKing said:

That's what superheroes do - inspire others.

 

Superheroes fight superpowered bad guys. That's the gist of it. That's generally why people read comic books. 

You don't need Superman to be inspired to be a better person. There are plenty of heroic examples in real life. You need Superman to fight giant monsters and cartoon criminal masterminds.  Batman is a funny example because he's actually doing the opposite--he's inspiring fear into the criminal element in order to reduce crime. 

 

 

 

[Excraft]

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Their actions promote empathy toward others, provides hope, motivates others to be more altruistic and motivating us toward making ourselves better.  They show us how we can overcome challenges and help others. 

 

Heroes inspire us through their acts, which are qualities to admire. They show us how we can overcome all types of challenges and help others. The idea of a superhero and their actions is to inspire us to create a better world.   One doesn't need to have god like super powers to be a hero.

 

Couldn't agree more.  Their actions inspire and they lead by example to inspire others to be better people.  They're not generals or politicians barking out orders from on high, they're walking the walk.  Hell, in the case of Superman, his symbol from the House of El literally translates to "hope" on Krypton and represents being a force for good and an ideal for people to strive toward.  Superman isn't telling everyone to sit back, relax, put their feet up and sip a cocktail because he's got this, he's using his powers for good and to inspire others to do good and make a better world.  He does his best to help make the world a better place, and in doing so inspires others to do the same.  

 

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Suggesting that Superman and other heroes aren't meant to be inspiring figures and to encourage others to be empathetic and do good through their actions is completely and utterly wrong.

 

^ 100%.  

[battlewraith]

Alan Moore sums it up well:

 

[ShardWarrior]

6 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Heroes inspire us through their acts, which are qualities to admire. They show us how we can overcome all types of challenges and help others. The idea of a superhero and their actions is to inspire us to create a better world.   

 

Absolutely!  Well said.  There has actually been quite a lot of news articles and academic studies published over the years about this very subject.  They can be a very interesting and insightful read!  

 

This has always been something I think superhero films tend not to show enough - the ordinary person stepping up and getting involved to help others.  It does happen, just not as often as I would have liked but then again, I temper that with this is generally not the focus of the overall plot.  

 

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

Their actions inspire and they lead by example to inspire others to be better people.  They're not generals or politicians barking out orders from on high, they're walking the walk.  Hell, in the case of Superman, his symbol from the House of El literally translates to "hope" on Krypton and represents being a force for good and an ideal for people to strive toward.  Superman isn't telling everyone to sit back, relax, put their feet up and sip a cocktail because he's got this, he's using his powers for good and to inspire others to do good and make a better world.  He does his best to help make the world a better place, and in doing so inspires others to do the same.  

 

Totally agree.  How do you feel this was handled in the new Superman?  

[JKCarrier]

3 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Superheroes fight superpowered bad guys. That's the gist of it. That's generally why people read comic books. 

You don't need Superman to be inspired to be a better person. There are plenty of heroic examples in real life. You need Superman to fight giant monsters and cartoon criminal masterminds.

 

"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe." - Lex Luthor

[ShardWarrior]

8 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe." - Lex Luthor

 

"Otisburg??"  - Lex Luthor 🤣

[battlewraith]

24 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

 

"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe." - Lex Luthor

 

"It's all about the conviction that what you did was right."--Jor-el talking to someone.

 

[Excraft]

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

How do you feel this was handled in the new Superman?  

 

That's an interesting question.  For the new Superman in specific, I think the falafel guy coming to help Superman got the point across.  I do agree it is something they could build upon  more.  It's as you said though, how much or how little this kind of scene showing ordinary people inspired to do good is dependent on what the story calls for.  You do see it in other films.  The passengers on the train stepping in to protect Spider-Man from Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2 comes to mind.  

 

It's an interesting topic for discussion.  Might make for an interesting thread.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

By the way… in case no-one’s mentioned it, you get to continue the discussion in 2027.

 

There’s quite a lot going on in the book arc to choose from - but if they borrow from the 2020 animated movie, we’d be getting a whole lotta Lobo.

[Ghost]

36 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

By the way… in case no-one’s mentioned it, you get to continue the discussion in 2027.

 

There’s quite a lot going on in the book arc to choose from - but if they borrow from the 2020 animated movie, we’d be getting a whole lotta Lobo.

Isn’t Lobo reported to be in the upcoming Supergirl movie?

[ShardWarrior]

41 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Isn’t Lobo reported to be in the upcoming Supergirl movie?

 

Yes.  I believe there are a few set photos/videos out on the interwebs people have surreptitiously taken of Jason Momoa filming his scenes for Supergirl.

[El D]

31 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Isn’t Lobo reported to be in the upcoming Supergirl movie?

 

He is, played by Jason Momoa. More of a cameo apparently rather than a major role in the film, so no telling if he'll remain in it until the movie's actually showing. Considering the tone of the Guardians films, Lobo does seem like the kind of character James Gunn would do his best to keep around, though. Apparently one of the original pitches for the Supergirl movie even had him in as a full-on secondary protagonist in a team up between Lobo and Supergirl framed as 'True Grit In Space.'

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

1 hour ago, El D said:

'True Grit In Space.'

...what D said. (And I woulda done if it hadn't been for that meddling mobile site...)

 

And while I would have loved that, it risked turning the Supergirl movie into the Lobo show.

As it is, the original Woman of Tomorrow arc still borrows a core theme from that particular Western (and I prefer the Coen Brothers remake, with Jeff and lil' Hailee.)

 

Kara is approached by young orphan Ruthye. She persuades Kara to help find Krem Of The Yellow Hills, who murdered her father for not laughing at a joke.

(Sheesh. Some people just can't handle a tough crowd.)

 

Lobo doesn't appear in the original comic, but I can think of ways of working him in. Not as heavily as the LaBoeuf role, more for colour, humour and a.... call it a "casual antagonist". Someone who pops up to cause issues, either for fun or because they're pursuing similar goals - but isn't the Final Boss.

 

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Yes.  I believe there are a few set photos/videos out on the interwebs people have surreptitiously taken of Jason Momoa filming his scenes for Supergirl.

I've seen a couple - and these days, I'm never sure if anything's real or an AI fake.

This one's from Reddit: what does your forum-sense tell you?

 

Makeup's a little more Dragula-era Rob Zombie to my eye, and the motorbike looks like an old Norton in WW2 camo drab - but maybe they had it kicking about on the lot, Momoa liked it and they'll dial in the 'Hog later.

Edited September 4 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Ghost]

Won’t stop me from watching, but Lobo and Cable were two very popular characters that I just cannot stand.