Toggling Group Fly options

[Rudra]

  On 8/26/2024 at 1:22 AM, Wavicle said:

My preferred solution would be that when someone on your team is running Group Fly, INSTEAD of simply putting you in the air, the power grants YOU a Flight Toggle on your Server Tray that you can toggle on and off as desired.

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That's actually a very elegant solution....

[megaericzero]

  On 8/26/2024 at 1:25 AM, Rudra said:

That's actually a very elegant solution....

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Assuming the game can treat players like that but still give henchmen normal +fly; you know how pets/henchmen act with toggles.

[Rudra]

  On 8/26/2024 at 4:03 AM, megaericzero said:

Assuming the game can treat players like that but still give henchmen normal +fly; you know how pets/henchmen act with toggles.

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It is a popup tray power. I don't think pets can use those. For instance, a Robotics MM's pets have Super Jump, but I've never seen them use the Double Jump power that appears in the popup tray when that power gets used to keep up with my MMs.

[PoptartsNinja]

MM Pet Super Jump isn't player Super Jump, it's just a really strong +Jump Height (not jump speed) boost so they can get up into warehouse rafters and etc.

[Rudra]

  On 8/26/2024 at 4:38 AM, PoptartsNinja said:

MM Pet Super Jump isn't player Super Jump, it's just a really strong +Jump Height (not jump speed) boost so they can get up into warehouse rafters and etc.

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MM pet Super Jump grants them +2,780% jump height, +249% jump speed, +4,000% movement control, +4,000% movement friction, and +35% running speed for all the bots.

 

However, I see you are correct in that it is a different super jump. Since players get +2,780% jump height, +249% jump speed, +165% max jump speed, +1,000% movement control, +200% movement friction, and 100% chance of a 100% chance global chance mod which I am guessing is the Double Jump toggle power.

[Rudra]

  On 8/26/2024 at 4:03 AM, megaericzero said:

Assuming the game can treat players like that but still give henchmen normal +fly; you know how pets/henchmen act with toggles.

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Actually, wouldn't that be a simple problem to address? We already have powers that cannot be used against ally NPCs. Look at Mystic Fortune. You can try to use it on a Mastermind pet all you want, but the pet keeps coming up as an invalid target. Why couldn't the pop up power @Wavicle proposed also be coded to have the same Target: Player (Alive) setting?

[srmalloy]

I wonder whether it would be possible to create a "Pet Fly" power for the START vendors that would act like Group Fly, but only for the character's pets; it would further marginalize the Group Fly power, but even for MMs I don't know whether Group Fly gets enough use to justify a power choice in most builds. There are a few examples of content where not having Group Fly gimps a MM -- the Seed of Hamidon is one good example, where not having your henchmen flying eliminates the vast majority of their DPS. Perhaps the temp flight power you get from defeating Seedlings could be tweaked to affect your pets as a test to see how well it would work while keeping it limited before deciding whether to implement it as a START product.

[megaericzero]

  On 8/26/2024 at 4:14 AM, Rudra said:

It is a popup tray power. I don't think pets can use those. For instance, a Robotics MM's pets have Super Jump, but I've never seen them use the Double Jump power that appears in the popup tray when that power gets used to keep up with my MMs.

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  On 8/26/2024 at 8:31 AM, Rudra said:

Actually, wouldn't that be a simple problem to address? We already have powers that cannot be used against ally NPCs. Look at Mystic Fortune. You can try to use it on a Mastermind pet all you want, but the pet keeps coming up as an invalid target. Why couldn't the pop up power @Wavicle proposed also be coded to have the same Target: Player (Alive) setting?

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Right. That's what I'm getting at. Having Group Fly grant a pop-up tray power is an elegant solution... for player-to-player interactions. If you change Group Fly to that wholesale, though, pets and henchmen will no longer benefit from it.

 

When I said:

  On 8/26/2024 at 4:03 AM, megaericzero said:

Assuming the game can treat players like that but still give henchmen normal +fly; you know how pets/henchmen act with toggles.

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... I was voicing concerns that there might be spaghetti getting in the way of reprogramming Group Fly to simultaneously:

• grant other players a pop-up tray toggle but NOT give them +flight as a buff
• give pets/henchmen and themself +flight as a buff but NOT attempt to grant them a pop-up tray toggle

The reason I brought it up is largely that I'm currently unaware if the game can have one player emit an aura that grants pop-up tray powers to other players (as opposed to themself).

 

EDIT: On a different note, what's stopping Group Fly from granting a pop-up tray toggle to the caster instead that filters Group Fly to only affect the caster and their pets? That eliminates other players from having to fiddle with the pop-up tray and lets the caster swap it in real time with no one needing to visit Null.

Edited August 26, 2024 by megaericzero

[Wavicle]

A full explanation of my suggestion.

Group Fly when toggled on would:

A) Make you and all YOUR pets fly.

B) Provide teammates with a server tray power that when toggled would make them and all THEIR pets fly.

 

I would also increase the range by a lot to make it easier not to drop people, and maybe provide a buffer period of 15 seconds after you leave the AoE but the power persists.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Wavicle

[Rudra]

  On 8/26/2024 at 7:21 PM, megaericzero said:

Right. That's what I'm getting at. Having Group Fly grant a pop-up tray power is an elegant solution... for player-to-player interactions. If you change Group Fly to that wholesale, though, pets and henchmen will no longer benefit from it.

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That is not what I am saying. I am saying that a popup tray power that only affects players could be added to Group Fly that when activated by a player prevents Group Fly from affecting them. This would mean that pets have no say as to whether Group Fly affected them or not, because the toggle would be activating the hidden power that prevents Group Fly from affecting the character, would only be a valid power for players to even receive, and so would only be available for players to activate. So pets would still always be affected.

 

(Edit: Because the popup tray power would only be valid for players to receive, like with Mystic Fortune, only players would get to activate that toggle power while within the radius of the affecting Group Fly power.)

 

 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Rudra
Edited to add multiple items to the sentence that starts with "This would mean that pets:"....

[Psyonico]

What happens when players have decided to turn off the pop up tray?

[Rudra]

  On 8/27/2024 at 12:41 AM, Psyonico said:

What happens when players have decided to turn off the pop up tray?

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*shrug* Guess they need to visit Null then.

[megaericzero]

  On 8/27/2024 at 12:05 AM, Rudra said:

That is not what I am saying. I am saying that a popup tray power that only affects players could be added to Group Fly that when activated by a player prevents Group Fly from affecting them. This would mean that pets have no say as to whether Group Fly affected them or not, because the toggle would be activating the hidden power that prevents Group Fly from affecting the character, would only be a valid power for players to even receive, and so would only be available for players to activate. So pets would still always be affected.

 

(Edit: Because the popup tray power would only be valid for players to receive, like with Mystic Fortune, only players would get to activate that toggle power while within the radius of the affecting Group Fly power.)

 

 

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I believe we got some wires crossed in communication. For starters:

Wavicle's suggestion is for Group Fly to grant other players a temporary power that gives them flight when turned on, which you said was an elegant solution; your response now sounds like you assume the temporary power would remove the flight when turned on, though you hadn't elaborated as such in contrast to Wavicle's version.

[Rudra]

  On 8/27/2024 at 2:10 AM, megaericzero said:

I believe we got some wires crossed in communication. For starters:

Wavicle's suggestion is for Group Fly to grant other players a temporary power that gives them flight when turned on, which you said was an elegant solution; your response now sounds like you assume the temporary power would remove the flight when turned on, though you hadn't elaborated as such in contrast to Wavicle's version.

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My apologies then. I read it as a flight toggle that disabled Group Fly's effects on the player receiving the toggle to use.

[Wavicle]

  On 8/27/2024 at 2:34 AM, Rudra said:

My apologies then. I read it as a flight toggle that disabled Group Fly's effects on the player receiving the toggle to use.

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That's not what I intended, no. I was suggesting that Group Fly have NO immediate effect on anyone besides the caster and their pets EXCEPT to grant a toggle that would then allow flight for others.