What are we thinking about this endgame Claws/SR build?

[Story Archer]

My goal was to put something together that was sleek, efficient and didn't require any maintenance on the defensive side. One of the great things about Claws is that it offers the opportunity to use a wide variety of purple sets to their maximum effectiveness. The global Accuracy is so bananas on this set, I really only have Focused Accuracy to mule the Gaussian's to top off the defensive numbers. Global Recharge is more than enough not to have to worry about Hasten, and tossing the Rebirth Incarnate on top is just *chef's kiss*.

 

I haven't played these two sets together before - anything obvious (or not so obvious) that I'm overlooking?

 

[Sheen] (Claws - Super Reflexes).mbd

 

 

EDIT: Posted the wrong thing by mistake - fixed it now.

 

Edited October 10 by Story Archer

[Without_Pause]

I'm back to play testing mine. I need to figure out if I can swap out Hasten or not. I just need to test out adding in purples for Slash. I haven't switched Focus over to my new slotting yet. I'm undecided about what to replace Hasten with. I only use RoP as needed on the harder content for soloing, and I have Melee as well. I use Rebirth because again, I solo and try to push the envelop in terms of what I try to do. 

 

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[Story Archer]

52 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I'm back to play testing mine. I need to figure out if I can swap out Hasten or not. I just need to test out adding in purples for Slash. I haven't switched Focus over to my new slotting yet. I'm undecided about what to replace Hasten with. I only use RoP as needed on the harder content for soloing, and I have Melee as well. I use Rebirth because again, I solo and try to push the envelop in terms of what I try to do. 

 

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I don't know why, but I can't ever get the data chunks to work for me.

 

What is it that you use Hasten for? Personally, I've never found that Claws needed it for a tight attack chain and SR doesn't have any clickies that really benefit from it. 

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Story Archer said:

 

I don't know why, but I can't ever get the data chunks to work for me.

 

What is it that you use Hasten for? Personally, I've never found that Claws needed it for a tight attack chain and SR doesn't have any clickies that really benefit from it. 

1. It's an absolute habit I have been slowly trying to break across a number of builds. 

2. From what I can tell even Bill Z Bubba uses it, and they have more recharge than I have. There's this and I think a Savage/sr build I am testing out and seeing how much of a need it is. My current lean is that you don't. Also, getting the build to I think 75% -Recharge Res is doable, so there's not even a case for it due to that. 

[Without_Pause]

Also, you don't really need or shouldn't need Eviscerate or Energy Torrent. 

Without Hesitation - Scrapper (Claws - Super Reflexes).mbd

[Without_Pause]

I'll toss some other ideas onto Beta, but so far I think I will simply take out Hasten for my build and do Def and Def\End for Maneuvers. Why more Def on a build which is soft capped? I'm up to +3/x8 and +ToHit exists. 

[Without_Pause]

More soloing. I think higher diff settings like +3x8 for Scrappers are going to require having some sort of ranged attack to help pull mobs in ways to help take on certain mobs. I haven't found an armor which simply runs in and doesn't worry about any mob at the upper levels of diff settings. This is what makes Claws so great out-of-the-box.

 

For SR, I have a debate about Rebirth or Barrier. I think smart gameplay makes this more personal preference than anything else. I'll do some non 1:1 testing with using Barrier on my Dark/sr as I have Rebirth on my Claws/sr.

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

More soloing. I think higher diff settings like +3x8 for Scrappers are going to require having some sort of ranged attack to help pull mobs in ways to help take on certain mobs. I haven't found an armor which simply runs in and doesn't worry about any mob at the upper levels of diff settings. This is what makes Claws so great out-of-the-box.

 

For SR, I have a debate about Rebirth or Barrier. I think smart gameplay makes this more personal preference than anything else. I'll do some non 1:1 testing with using Barrier on my Dark/sr as I have Rebirth on my Claws/sr.

 

While that might not be true for more skilled players, it's definitely true for me.  I run at +4/8, but have to be VERY cautious and use Psionic Lance and/or Teleport Target to pull mobs, as opposed to diving right into the crowd, as I do with my Brutes and Tanks.  And even with these tactics, I still manage to go down for a dirt nap semi-frequently.  On a good team, this isn't an issue, but you (well, "I", at least) can have a tendency to be overconfident because that Crit ATO proc allows you to lay down such hideously devastating carnage that you think you can obliterate them all before they kill you.  Unfortunately, Scrappers just tend to be a little more squishy than other melee AT's, so you gotta use careful tactics when playing solo.

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Triumphant said:

 

While that might not be true for more skilled players, it's definitely true for me.  I run at +4/8, but have to be VERY cautious and use Psionic Lance and/or Teleport Target to pull mobs, as opposed to diving right into the crowd, as I do with my Brutes and Tanks.  And even with these tactics, I still manage to go down for a dirt nap semi-frequently.  On a good team, this isn't an issue, but you (well, "I", at least) can have a tendency to be overconfident because that Crit ATO proc allows you to lay down such hideously devastating carnage that you think you can obliterate them all before they kill you.  Unfortunately, Scrappers just tend to be a little more squishy than other melee AT's, so you gotta use careful tactics when playing solo.

I think it depends on the Brute or Tanker. It matters as to what kind of mob you are dealing with. Some sets simply don't want to deal with lots of debuffs or ToHit buffs and more so when they can be stacked. The plus side for those ATs and certainly Tankers is them having Taunt. I've been using it on my Shield/fire to great effect. 

[speczero]

On 10/10/2024 at 3:51 PM, Story Archer said:

 

I don't know why, but I can't ever get the data chunks to work for me.

 

What is it that you use Hasten for? Personally, I've never found that Claws needed it for a tight attack chain and SR doesn't have any clickies that really benefit from it. 

 

On 10/10/2024 at 5:03 PM, Without_Pause said:

1. It's an absolute habit I have been slowly trying to break across a number of builds. 

2. From what I can tell even Bill Z Bubba uses it, and they have more recharge than I have. There's this and I think a Savage/sr build I am testing out and seeing how much of a need it is. My current lean is that you don't. Also, getting the build to I think 75% -Recharge Res is doable, so there's not even a case for it due to that. 

 

I don't want to put words in Bill z Bubba's mouth, but the reason I use Hasten and want a lot of recharge is that Follow-Up stacks. So you want to be able to do your entire rotation while also getting stacked Follow-Up. It only stacks twice, but it takes quite a bit of recharge to do the entire rotation and also have double follow-up through the entire second part of your rotation.

[Without_Pause]

31 minutes ago, speczero said:

 

 

I don't want to put words in Bill z Bubba's mouth, but the reason I use Hasten and want a lot of recharge is that Follow-Up stacks. So you want to be able to do your entire rotation while also getting stacked Follow-Up. It only stacks twice, but it takes quite a bit of recharge to do the entire rotation and also have double follow-up through the entire second part of your rotation.

I'll have to go look into how it is stacking for me. The thing is. I currently don't change my attack chain with our without Hasten. Outside of Hasten, I think I'm just missing out on maybe 5% Recharge compared to Bill's build, but I don't think I have seen his build directly. I've pieced it together via posts. Note, I haven't really gone looking for it. I figured I could figure out a build well enough. I have made some changes as I've looked at info and saw them mention how they slotted things. I do know I differ on at least one power for the Claws side of things. I also need to update my slotting so I can get as close to a final build as I can and test that out. I'll leave Hasten in just to see if I feel like it's still required. 

[Story Archer]

Quick question regarding Claws since I've got some knowledgeable people about: how necessary is the KB/KD IO for Shockwave? Assume I'm running content that is at least +2, will that generally be enough to mitigate KB to KD, or do I need to get the IO if I don't want to be sending guys flying all the time? I see the mag listed in Mids as being KB: 1.82 but that doesn't mean much to me.

[Troo]

@Without_Pause I always thought of Hasten as training wheels until we got more experienced with a character. That said, I take it on nearly all finished characters.

 

Legend has it - On Claws characters, Recharge can get to a weird place. Follow Up -->  Zapp -->  Follow Up

 

 

Edited October 22 by Troo

[Flat Line]

9 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

Quick question regarding Claws since I've got some knowledgeable people about: how necessary is the KB/KD IO for Shockwave? Assume I'm running content that is at least +2, will that generally be enough to mitigate KB to KD, or do I need to get the IO if I don't want to be sending guys flying all the time? I see the mag listed in Mids as being KB: 1.82 but that doesn't mean much to me.

It’s not necessary at all, but it’s a nice ‘quality of life’.

 

For some reason, even with the KB to KD, some clockwork still get knocked back…

After getting used to everything getting knocked down, it’s definitely irritating IMO.

[Flat Line]

Regarding Hasten: My question is, do you have a better use for your auto-power?

 

Hasten lets you optimize your load out. You can avoid ‘filler’ attacks and only/mostly use your best/favourite powers.

 

BUT, it’s annoying to have to click it all the time. 
If I have another power that needs to be clicked all the time (build up, aim, domination, energize… etc), I try to have enough recharge in my build that I can skip hasten.

[Story Archer]

8 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Without_Pause I always thought of Hasten as training wheels until we got more experienced with a character.

 

Or, at the very least, a way to keep from repeatedly banging your head on the keyboard waiting for your attacks to recharge while grinding through the lower & mid levels.

 

I don't think it'll be needed in this build, but I'm also playing with a Claws/Rad Brute right now and all of a sudden Hasten is looking a lot more significant with Particle Shielding and the mini-nukes that come with it. The problem is that I'll basically have to give up Fold Space to get it, so I'm trying to see if I can get by with FF +Rech procs in Focus and Shockwave for now.

[Story Archer]

Just now, Flat Line said:

Regarding Hasten: My question is, do you have a better use for your auto-power?

 

Hasten lets you optimize your load out. You can avoid ‘filler’ attacks and only/mostly use your best/favourite powers.

 

BUT, it’s annoying to have to click it all the time. 
If I have another power that needs to be clicked all the time (build up, aim, domination, energize… etc), I try to have enough recharge in my build that I can skip hasten.

 

This is ALWAYS the deciding factor for me when it comes to Hasten. I don't like 'clicky' defenses to begin with, so if I have a defensive power that I NEED to auto-fire (like Practiced Brawler), I'm less likely to take it. I've been told that I could theoretically keybind other click powers like Hasten to my basic move commands, but I haven't been able to figure out macros / keybinds yet.

[Flat Line]

Side note with Claws having two solid ranged attacks:

With enough recharge, you can cycle just those two powers in cases where you want to play at range.

[Without_Pause]

10 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

Quick question regarding Claws since I've got some knowledgeable people about: how necessary is the KB/KD IO for Shockwave? Assume I'm running content that is at least +2, will that generally be enough to mitigate KB to KD, or do I need to get the IO if I don't want to be sending guys flying all the time? I see the mag listed in Mids as being KB: 1.82 but that doesn't mean much to me.

Odds are you aren't running +2 when you get it. If you do any teams at all, your odds of doing content at +0 gets higher with various speed runs. I slot it with the Sudden Acceleration IO and don't even blink. To me it just feels better having it in there with no chance for KB. IIRC, in the Blaster forum there was data showing Energy Blast doing better DPS with slotting in some KB to KD.

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Without_Pause I always thought of Hasten as training wheels until we got more experienced with a character. That said, I take it on nearly all finished characters.

 

Legend has it - On Claws characters the Recharge can get to a weird place. Follow Up -->  Zapp -->  Follow Up

 

 

I die on the hill of not taking the snipe. My attack chain is FU + Slash + Focus. No, it isn't max DPS, but outside of Lethal being resisted, I find my ST damage to be fine. Slash and Focus both have two procs in them. Both have a purple damage proc. Add in Musculature and I just really don't see the need for a snipe. It also frees me up to take a different Epic. I would much rather have Physical Perfection compared to a snipe on a Claws/sr. Note, you could technically talk me into using the Psionic pool with it having a snipe and Harmonic Mind.

[Story Archer]

5 minutes ago, Flat Line said:

Side note with Claws having two solid ranged attacks:

With enough recharge, you can cycle just those two powers in cases where you want to play at range.

 

I actually saw this with a Brute once - they had taken Shockwave, Focus and Energy Torrent. With FF +Rech procs in all three attacks, they would just stand back and hammer groups at range, keeping them at distance with all the KD. Very cool.

[Story Archer]

7 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Odds are you aren't running +2 when you get it. If you do any teams at all, your odds of doing content at +0 gets higher with various speed runs. I slot it with the Sudden Acceleration IO and don't even blink. To me it just feels better having it in there with no chance for KB. IIRC, in the Blaster forum there was data showing Energy Blast doing better DPS with slotting in some KB to KD.

 

That's actually my biggest hang-up on taking the KB/KD IO... that it's breaking up IO set bonuses, especially if I'm already trying to fit +Rech procs in there from FF.

 

Edit: Could the KD proc from Ragnarok theoretically mitigate some of the KB by superseding it? I'm not sure how that interaction works.

 

Edited October 22 by Story Archer

[Without_Pause]

12 minutes ago, Flat Line said:

Regarding Hasten: My question is, do you have a better use for your auto-power?

PB is the auto power. I don't think I ever really have Hasten on auto even if a build has it perma. You don't 'need' to have PB on auto, but I also don't want to think about clicking on it for no other reason I will forget about it, and then I'm a Level 50 Scrapper who is mezzed. 

[Without_Pause]

2 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

 

That's actually my biggest hang-up on taking the KB/KD IO... that it's breaking up IO set bonuses, especially if I'm already trying to fit +Rech procs in there from FF.

You'll need KD more than +Recharge for the Claws side of things. 5th slot bonuses tend to be good enough for me. 

[Story Archer]

2 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

You'll need KD more than +Recharge for the Claws side of things. 5th slot bonuses tend to be good enough for me. 

 

Incarnates aren't affected by global recharge bonuses, are they?

[Without_Pause]

13 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

 

Incarnates aren't affected by global recharge bonuses, are they?

I don't believe so. Two of the six are auto. I don't really use Lore even if I grab it, and you likely don't care about it recharging anyway. Hybrid and Destiny look to be perma when at 120 second duration. So any recharge is really just for Judgement.