Proc'n Out! but I Gotz Questions

[Maelwys]

Since we're really on a roll here...

I know some folk don't use Mids (either by choice or circumstance); but I do find it very useful for ballparking average damage per attack; including damage procs.

If your attack uses any procs, then often if an enhancement within it contains any +recharge% you'll get better return by lowering its level (either by purposely picking it up at a lower-level, or by not boosting it). However if that enhancement also contains +damage% (or Damage AND Accuracy AND Endurance reduction!) then there's a balancing act. You typically want each of your attacks to have at least a 95% HitRate versus +3s; and unless an attack's base damage is pitiful then it usually pays to enhance it a bit instead of sticking yet another extra 3.5PPM damage proc in there. And Mids can perform those calculations on the fly for you when it comes to damage output (drop enhancement level by 1; check average damage figure) - and it's usually pretty accurate providing you ensure you detoggle any guff like Build Up and Gaussian Procs and Scrapper Criticals OFF first... 🙂

Sometimes an attack will need to contain some "special" procs which don't fit in anywhere else; or there are set bonuses that you desperately need which sometimes take precedence over "optimal" damage slotting... but there's often still some room for improvement with specific enhancement level tweaks.

Let's take a few examples:


Pretty easy to see what is trying to be accomplished here - a +10% Global Recharge set bonus plus the 4.5 PPM purple proc and an Achille's Heel -Res proc.
Because Purple sets contain +Recharge% the proc activation rate won't be wonderful, but it's a trade off between raw damage output and a useful set bonus... however you can stack the deck a little in your favour by not taking the Dam/Rech purple, and only boosting the DAMAGE and DAMAGE/END Purples to +5; but leaving the Acc/Dam/Rech and Acc/Rech alone.


This is a ranged variant of the above (this was the only place in the build capable of slotting a Decimation proc). The Rech/Acc is not boosted; but the Dam/Rech/Acc is actually Lv50+3 because as it turns out that is the "sweet spot" for maximum average damage with a 4.5PPM damage proc in this particular case. Mids is great here for showing you the results of small level tweaks in realtime... as long as you ensure it's using accurate values for the power's recharge time - many of the Epic Powers had their stats tweaked a few pages ago and the Mids database guys can be a bit slow to include those changes!


For this one, we're going for the +3.75% Melee Defence set bonus plus a 3.5PPM Damage Proc. The Touch of Death set only contains a few IOs with "Recharge" - so those are taken at the lowest possible level and not boosted in order to buff Proc activation rate. The Proc itself gets attuned; and the other IOs in the set are all Boosted to +5.


Similar to the one above - this is going for a 6-piece set bonus but we want to make best use of the damage proc. As almost all the pieces in the Obliteration IO set contain "Recharge"; only the first (Damage-only) gets taken at Lv50 and boosted.


This one only cares about Set Bonuses, not about Procs. So we don't even bother 6-slotting it.


This one mainly cares about maximised raw damage output. Note the Lv53 Acc/Dam HO and the 50+5 Damage Obliteration; then the rest are all Procs. As a small concession to Set Bonuses; it goes for a 2-set Obliteration over a second Acc/Dam HO in order to gain a bit of extra S/L Damage Resistance.



Single-Target and Targeted AoE ranged variants of the one above - once again, maximised raw damage is the main aim here with a small concession for a useful 2-piece set bonus.




This is one case where Mids will NOT directly help you figure out the optimum enhancement level tweaks because the proc you're going for isn't a damage proc - so you'll need to calculate the optimal recharge enhancement figure manually and then repeatedly tweak the IO levels in Mids until you get as close to that number as possible.
Spoiler Alert: "Aim" and "Build Up" powers can take ~70.35% local recharge before a Gaussian Proc's activation chance drops below 90%. So this is my typical basic slotting.

And this is the "maximum damage" variant where I don't need any additional +Perception. That's a Lv50+5 Rech/EndRed/ToHit plus a Lv50+1 Rech.





This is the start of what I'd call true balancing acts - where you want a very specific set bonus as well as ED-capped damage and sufficient accuracy... then you utilise the remaining slots to boost the power in other ways via utility or damage procs.



This is multiple-plates-spinning-simultaneously levels of slotting. Where you've worked out precisely how much Accuracy and Endurance reduction the power requires in order for the relevant pet to end up with a capped hit rate vs +3 foes and not run out of endurance with all-guns-blazing; and are utilising all the slots to achieve that whilst simultaneously also ED-capping their damage, transforming any knockback-into-knockdown; including a damage proc that actually applies to multiple sub powers of each pet and fitting in some necessary utility IOs (Pet Aura Globals). Plus useful Set Bonuses. And also *just* softcapping your Defense. 😅


Obviously there are many, many more other possible slotting combinations... but the above should give a rough idea of some of the tweaking I actually do on each of my builds.

 

Edited October 25 by Maelwys

[Maelwys]

21 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

Doesn't the Scrapper Rad Armor set also include PBAoE -Defense? I find that on my characters that can apply an AoE -Defense debuff, that the %procs are much more reliable, without having to worry as much about Accuracy.

It does indeed, but the debuffs from Beta Decay (the PBAoE Toggle) won't always actually kick in on a target before your first hit (or two) land. Especially if you're barrelling from one group to the next like a rabid werebadger.

[Ukase]

55 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

You may want to find a place to slot Kismet +tohit.  Ups your chance to to hit on all attacks and can be slotted very early.  Great on proc heavy builds where you have limited Acc slotting.  I usually put it in Combat jumping in the teens as I'm leveling up.  Soul Drain is also an excellent place to slot a Gaussian's Build up proc.

I want to echo this. 
I also want to say that no matter how much accuracy/toHit you may have, you're going to miss. And sometimes, it's going to seem like you put the wrong kismet in, or the wrong kind of enhancement in. While it's in an odd way true that perception is reality, this game and it's rng "dice" will have you swearing off gambling for sure. And then it'll have you getting a 2nd mortgage to head to Vegas and put it all on snake eyes. 

In this fashion, procs are strange. We slot them, and even at 90% chance to fire, sometimes they don't. I'll ask myself STUPID questions like, "is the fact that I converted this from something else making it fire less often than it should?" or "This damn thing is attuned. Should I take it out and put the level 7 in?" 

Or maybe that's just me. I'm hyper-sensitive to the whiffs. 

[Ukase]

5 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Since we're really on a roll here

For those that don't know, this is a pun. It may not have been intended, but it is a pun. See, I was just typing up about the rng dice and all that...dunno how Maelwys knew that...but he nailed it! 

[Ukase]

46 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

The Proc itself gets attuned

Why? Do the damage procs not work the same whether they're level 25 or 40 or 50? Or is that just something you like to do? 

[Maelwys]

23 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Why? Do the damage procs not work the same whether they're level 25 or 40 or 50? Or is that just something you like to do? 

More force of habit since it means I get to slot it early (and it's engrained in my hindbrain that only the PVP and Purple set IOs are "auto attuned"). I typically just buy an attuned version of each proc off the AH - as since it pools all the copies of the same enhancement together, buying an attuned copy is no more expensive than buying a levelled copy.

[Bionic_Flea]

AH!  I see it now.  Missed it on first look.

 

And yeah, you've gotta balance everything in a build to your preferences.  I've also slotted KD in Soul Drain and it makes a great opener to be buffed and your enemies flopping.

 

[shortguy on indom]

8 hours ago, Maelwys said:

ballparking average damage per attack; including damage procs.

• THIS.
• WAS WHAT MY GOAL WAS, SO NEEDED TO CALC PROC CHANCE(S) TO GET THERE.
• ENDED UP USING ESTIMATING, SO NOT THE IDEAL WAY.  RESULTS NOT EXACT.
• CAN SEE ON MY SCREENIES ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

 

• my 2 influence on the whole multi-proc thing:
  • maximizing acc/chance to hit/tohit.... then there are: purple patch/your +1,+2,+3,+4 settings/etc are probably more important.
  • ymmv.

[shortguy on indom]

 

• CHANCE TO HIT:  MISSES 5% ON LOW AND HIGH ENDS, SO 10% INHERENT MISS.
• CHANCE TO PROC:  MISS 10% ON HIGH END, SO 10% INHERENT MISS.
• ADD EM UP TO GET MAX MISS.
• 1/2 THAT FOR IF ATTACK LANDS AND DOES NOT PROC.
• THIS IS PROLLY WHY SOME FOLKS THINKS THAT THERE IS ANOTHER TOHITROLL?... NO IDEA, MAYBE ANOTHER MECHANIC IN PLAY.

[Riverdusk]

On 10/25/2024 at 7:47 AM, Maelwys said:

More force of habit since it means I get to slot it early (and it's engrained in my hindbrain that only the PVP and Purple set IOs are "auto attuned"). I typically just buy an attuned version of each proc off the AH - as since it pools all the copies of the same enhancement together, buying an attuned copy is no more expensive than buying a levelled copy.

 

Well, unless you buy the recipe and craft it yourself.  Doing it that way often it is a lot less expensive and something you can do on unattuned ones.   I typically end up buying my procs as the lowest level recipe available for that set (since level doesn't matter might as well go for the earliest one you can use) and craft them myself.  Can save quite a bit of inf.   If you want the rest of the set attuned then I buy the rest of the set attuned.  

 

And yes, you can mix attuned and unattuned without any issues (sometimes a question I see in game).  Just don't mix superior and normal.