Thugs... optimal slotting advice?

[tjknight]

Hey all, 

 

This is my current slotting for my Thugs/Empathy MM. It's an older toon I'm working on updating. Does anyone have tips on optimal slotting for thugs. Also, any build advice for Thugs/Empathy is welcome. 

 

Thanks!!! 

[benai]

You cant slot an MM this way.

MM's also are frankenslotted, weirdly mixed and you need to look which proccs matches inside your pets.

Proccs like Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff, Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown, Chance for xxx Damage are a good take inside your Minions.

Then you mix the MMs special origin Enhancements in it with the 6 important Minion Auras. A mule power like Gang War can be helpful.

 

 

 

 

**Level 1: Call Thugs**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage
- 3: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Endurance
- 3: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Endurance
- 5: Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up
- 5: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
- 7: Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown

 

**Level 12: Call Enforcer**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage
- 13: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- 13: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense
- 17: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

 

**Level 18: Gang War**
- A: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- 19: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- 21: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- 21: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura
- 43: Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage
- 50: Call to Arms: Defense Bonus Aura for Pets

 

**Level 22: Call Bruiser**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage/Endurance
- 23: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen
- 23: Sovereign Right: Accuracy/Damage
- 25: Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus
- 25: Edict of the Master: Accuracy/Damage
- 27: Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus

 

**Level 12: Call Enforcer**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage
- 13: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- 13: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
- 17: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff

 

That would be my slotting. But maybe wait for someone that actually knew what he is doing.

 

 

Edited October 29 by benai
I missed Gang War in the picture and a bit of text

[tjknight]

1 hour ago, benai said:

You cant slot an MM this way.

MM's also are frankenslotted, weirdly mixed and you need to look which proccs matches inside your pets.

Proccs like Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff, Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown, Chance for xxx Damage are a good take inside your Minions.

Then you mix the MMs special origin Enhancements in it with the 6 important Minion Auras. A mule power like Gang War can be helpful.

 

 

 

 

**Level 1: Call Thugs**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage
- 3: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Endurance
- 3: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Endurance
- 5: Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up
- 5: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
- 7: Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown

 

**Level 12: Call Enforcer**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage
- 13: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- 13: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense
- 17: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

 

**Level 18: Gang War**
- A: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- 19: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- 21: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- 21: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura
- 43: Call to Arms: Accuracy/Damage
- 50: Call to Arms: Defense Bonus Aura for Pets

 

**Level 22: Call Bruiser**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage/Endurance
- 23: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen
- 23: Sovereign Right: Accuracy/Damage
- 25: Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus
- 25: Edict of the Master: Accuracy/Damage
- 27: Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus

 

**Level 12: Call Enforcer**
- A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage
- 13: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- 13: Soulbound Allegiance: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
- 15: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
- 17: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff

 

That would be my slotting. But maybe wait for someone that actually knew what he is doing.

 

 

 

Thanks!!!

[Meknomancer]

13 hours ago, tjknight said:

Hey all, 

 

This is my current slotting for my Thugs/Empathy MM. It's an older toon I'm working on updating. Does anyone have tips on optimal slotting for thugs. Also, any build advice for Thugs/Empathy is welcome. 

 

Thanks!!! 

 

I agree completely with what @benaisaid, you cannot slot thugs that way and expect any decent damage from them. Since thugs didn't get the upgrades that some of the other pets sets got you can search through forum posts all the way back and find the slotting for them there is still good for today. I recommend reading this one a thugs/dark explaining why you should slot them differently. Slotting them heavily with procs will boost your damage into a different class.

 

  

As for the empathy side of things, there's a ton of posts with ideas on slotting in the fender forums if you can't find stuff here. For example:

 

 

Edited October 29 by Meknomancer

[tjknight]

Thanks a lot guys. this is how I'm slotting now. I'll snatch up some Soulbound Allegiance pieces after I earn the $$$ for them. A noticeable improvement in solo performance by just making these few changes. 

 

 

Doctor Craine - Villain Mastermind
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.7.5 rev. 21
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Thugs
• Secondary powerset: Empathy
• Pool powerset (#1): Flight
• Pool powerset (#2): Leadership
• Pool powerset (#3): Force of Will
• Pool powerset (#4): Teleportation
• Ancillary powerset: Mace Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Call Thugs

• A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage
• 3: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen
• 3: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 5: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
• 5: Expedient Reinforcement: Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• 7: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge

Level 1: Healing Aura

• A: Preventive Medicine: Heal
• 7: Preventive Medicine: Endurance/RechargeTime
• 9: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance
• 9: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime
• 11: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
• 11: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 2: Heal Other

• A: Doctored Wounds: Heal
• 15: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Endurance/Recharge
• 17: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Endurance

Level 4: Hover

• A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)
• 17: Winter's Gift: Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
• 19: Winter's Gift: Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
• 19: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 6: Equip Thugs

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 8: Fly

• A: Hypersonic: Endurance/Flying

Level 10: Resurrect

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 12: Call Enforcer

• A: Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 21: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage/Endurance
• 21: Sovereign Right: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 23: Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Damage
• 23: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff
• 25: Invention: Defense Buff

Level 14: Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
• 25: Luck of the Gambler: Defense
• 27: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 16: Tactics

• A: Adjusted Targeting: Endurance/Recharge
• 27: Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Recharge
• 29: Adjusted Targeting: To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge

Level 18: Assault

• A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 20: Fortitude

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
• 29: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge
• 31: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance/Recharge
• 31: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 31: Luck of the Gambler: Defense
• 33: Luck of the Gambler: Endurance/Recharge

Level 22: Gang War

• A: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 33: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage
• 33: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• 34: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• 34: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura
• 34: Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus

Level 24: Call Bruiser

• A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Endurance
• 36: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage
• 36: Sovereign Right: Accuracy/Damage
• 36: Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus
• 37: Call to Arms: Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
• 37: Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 26: Upgrade Equipment

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 28: Recovery Aura

• A: Preemptive Optimization: Accuracy/Recharge
• 37: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Endurance
• 39: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance
• 39: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Recharge
• 39: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Endurance/Recharge
• 40: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge

Level 30: Clear Mind

• A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 32: Regeneration Aura

• A: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Endurance
• 40: Doctored Wounds: Endurance/Recharge
• 40: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Recharge
• 42: Doctored Wounds: Recharge
• 42: Doctored Wounds: Heal
• 42: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Endurance/Recharge

Level 35: Scorpion Shield

• A: Reactive Defenses: Defense
• 43: Reactive Defenses: Endurance/RechargeTime
• 43: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance
• 43: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
• 45: Reactive Defenses: Defense/RechargeTime
• 45: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 38: Weaken Resolve

• A: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff

Level 41: Adrenalin Boost

• A: Doctored Wounds: Heal/Recharge
• 45: Doctored Wounds: Endurance/Recharge
• 46: Doctored Wounds: Heal
• 46: Preemptive Optimization: Accuracy/Recharge
• 46: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
• 48: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Recharge

Level 44: Web Envelope

• A: Enfeebled Operation: Accuracy/Recharge
• 48: Enfeebled Operation: Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
• 48: Enfeebled Operation: Immobilize/Range
• 50: Enfeebled Operation: Endurance/Immobilize
• 50: Enfeebled Operation: Accuracy/Endurance
• 50: Enfeebled Operation: Accuracy/Immobilize

Level 47: Evasive Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 49: Teleport Target

• A: Invention: Accuracy

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Sprint

• (Empty)

Level 1: Supremacy


Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• A: Invention: Run Speed

Level 1: Health

• A: Miracle: +Recovery
• (Empty)

Level 1: Hurdle

• A: Invention: Jumping

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Efficacy Adaptor: EndMod/Endurance
• 13: Efficacy Adaptor: EndMod/Recharge
• 15: Efficacy Adaptor: EndMod

Level 8: Afterburner


Level 24: Bruiser's Fury
 

 

 

Edited October 30 by tjknight

[TheSpiritFox]

 

This imo is the ideal slotting. 

Basic thugs get 2 sets that provide 2 10% recharge bonuses, has both of the uniques from the sets, and hits close to 95% acc/dam enh. 

Enforcers I need to get the hamis to 53 (just havent spent the money yet) but those provide just base like 95% acc/dam. Then, enforcers have 4 -def attacks that can proc both of those procs, then a little defense enhancement and a LOTG slot filled. 

Gang war is just recharge to get it up and 4 uniques slotted. Gang war doesn't add all that much, its mostly just chaos and extra HP and targets. Its honestly imo more of a flavor power than something you take because its effective. You take it cause it mules stuff and because its funny to run around with 16-26 pets following you. 

And then bruiser gets 4 pieces of pet set, an acc/dam to round out the stats, and soulbound because it procs constantly and considering the damage the bruiser can do it can add some nice punch to some of his attacks But an overwhelming force would also be a good choice, adding chance to knockdown to everything he does. Explosive strike can add damage to a fair few of his attacks that already have knockdown. 

 

 

Edited October 30 by TheSpiritFox

[Maelwys]

On 10/30/2024 at 2:42 AM, TheSpiritFox said:

 

This imo is the ideal slotting. 

Definitely looks pretty close to it! 👍

IMO exact optimal slotting is going to differ depending on your secondary (you may not need the +Def uniques on something like an FF or Power Boosted Time, for example!) but I tend to go with the below. Numbers assume a Musculature Core Alpha; but it works fine with other flavours:

 



That way Gang War is giving decent set bonuses; and the T1s are benefitting from the Soulbound Proc (Bruiser gains proportionally less from +damage% due to Fury; and the T1s tend to benefit more from additional +ToHit). Note that Bruiser can also make decent use out of an Explosive Strike damage proc.

With Leadership and Incarnates etc. I find Enforcer Maneuvers Defense is typically sufficient to push the henchmen to softcap with just a single LoTG global; but the Lv50+5 Soulbound can be swapped for a 53+3 Cyto HO if you really want all the +defense you can get.
 

+19.63% Def to all (Enforcer Maneuvers, slotted with a single attuned LoTG +7.5% global)
+10.00% Def to all (Aura IOs)
 +3.94% Def to all (MM Maneuvers, slotted with a Lv50+5 EndRed/Def, Lv50+5 EndRed/Rech/Def and an attuned LoTG 7.5% global)
=33.57% Def to all

SCoM Aura IO grants another 15% to AoE Def; putting everything beyond the AoE softcap.

Barrier Core Destiny will add a minimum of another 5% Def to all, constantly.
Support Core Hybrid will grant another 12% Def to all, with 50% uptime.
Lore Radial can grant some more too (Talos or Arachnos, etc) albeit with lower uptime.

And that's without even considering your secondary.

Also if you're not taking "Tactics" and slotting the Gaussian proc into it, then that proc should be worked into Enforcers if possible (and in that case the pets may also require a smidge more accuracy to cap their hit rate versus higher-level foes; even with Supremacy + 2x Enforcer Tactics...)
 

Edited October 31 by Maelwys

[kelika2]

acc/dmg hami x2

end/def/tohit hami x2

1 lotg def/global rech

1 misc acc/dmg/end pet enh

is what i do for my enforcers

 

this maxes their acc/dmg/end/def

 

build.txt

[benai]

Your selection of Thugs and Empathy seems quite interesting.

Thugs have due to Enforcer and Auras quite good Def values (beside +damage and +tohit (enforcer leadership pool)) when your Minions are in each of the Enforcers range. Your Bruiser could be the biggest problem because he might not be near your Enforcers, so he should be your main focus with Fortitute and maybe Adrenalin Boost. And depending on how you set up your Recharge Value you should be able to have at least 4 maybe 5 times Fortitute on your Minions, so at least Bruiser, Enforcers and Lighter Guy can be heavyly buffed with +dmg +def +tohit

 

With your two none Auras Recovery and Regeneration Auras maybe nearly perma (?) they have a steady supply of health and endurance gain, maybe you can combine them with the healing uniques from panacea and preventive medicine for Regeneration Aura when it gives steady additional absorb, endurance and hit points.

The same could work for recovery aura with performance shifter and power transfer none uniques self heal and + endurance.

 

Your Adrenalin boost has the problem that your minions have no benefits from recharge but at least one can get a strong recovery and regeneration buff at a time.

 

But the above mentioned things have to be validated by those that actually have knowledge in procs, building and such.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of curiosity i made a build but i have no clue how you get the values of Enforcer and Gang War as you have them above

Thugs Emp v0.0.mbdThugs Emp v0.01.mbdThugs Emp v0.02.mbd

Version 0.01 is with Mace Scorpion Shield and Power Boost seems with Fortitite and stuff a good option.

Maybe Numina +Regeneration/Recovery is the better option in Regeneration Aura then Preventinve Meddicines + Absorb

Shuffle Shuffle V.0.02 has Assault instead of Clear Mind

Edited November 1 by benai