Liquefy and what it does

[Lazarus]

I am playing a GRAV/SONIC troller and just got liquefy.

I am confused as to how it works, how often does the HOLD take effect?

Is this power worth using procs?

 

Other than the kd and 2 debuffs i dont see much effect.

 

thx for responses.

[Doomguide2005]

?

No I think procs are a bad idea.  Too large an AoE and other issues but I'm not a proc expert.  

I'm not particularly worried about the kd/kb personally but the huge value of the debuffs makes it quite worth it for me (especially at the new lower recharge values)

[Psyonico]

Liquify is best used for the -to hit debuff.  On controllers, it's -28.56% base, meaning ED capped gets you around -45%.  You'll want to slot it for to hit debuff and recharge to get it up as much as possible.

[tidge]

I have Liquify slotted with 3x Accuracy/Recharge (50+5) and 3x %damage: Gladiator's Net, Positron's Blast, and Bombardment. It's the most reliable and widest-reaching %damage power on my /Sonic Controller. I don't have it up quickly enough to rely on it for -ToHit debuff, even with something like 78% global recharge in the build. Sonic has so many more AoE controls that I don't think the -ToHit is doing that much in the grand scheme of things, considering the Attack/ToHit mechanics of the game (the perma 5% chance to hit or miss, no matter what ToHit is.).

[Uun]

The Liquefy power summons 2 pseudo pets. The first creates a 25 ft radius AoE with a 30s duration that debuffs defense, tohit and recharge, inhibits fly and jump, and has a 3% chance of knockdown every 0.2s. These effects are all autohit. The second does minor S/E dmg and applies a 5.5s mag 2 hold. These effects are not autohit and require accuracy. It appears that the hold only occurs once (and only effects minions). 

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.sonic_debuff.liquefy&at=controller

[Doomguide2005]

My Fire/Sonic/Power Controller has their Liquefy slotted with 2 Enzymes, a +5 recharge IO, a +5 Dark Watcher's Despair to hit debuff/rech and a +5 Touch of Lady Grey for a To Hit Debuff of roughly 44%, a Defense Debuff of 56%, and recharge of 75 sec. 

[Maelwys]

I had an old Sonic/Elec Defender on Live which took + used Liquefy; and back then its base recharge was a whopping 300 seconds.

They 6-slotted it in order to ED-Cap Recharge, -ToHit and -Def; for a total of ~56.3% -ToHit and ~58.6% -Defense; and on my Hastenless build it ended up with a 129s recharge time (and 30s duration). Since Sonic Resonance is otherwise exclusively a +Resistance set that made it an extremely useful "Oh Crap" button... however unfortunately the horrendously long recharge time meant it was impossible to use it as a regular debuff. So it was mainly just used to let the team "catch our breath" or to survive a particularly difficult alpha strike (pulling multiple AVs was a favourite IIRC!).

I remade that old Defender on HC as a Elec/Sonic Corruptor a while back; and they still take Liquefy. However it's only 4-slotted now (plus a Intuition Radial Alpha) with the aim to ED-cap Recharge and -ToHit; and largely ignore -Def. Despite Corruptor base numbers being considerably lower than Defender base numbers, it's still inflicting a smidge over 41.5% -ToHit (and about 33.25 -Defense...) and the recharge time (thanks to various changes by the HC team in recent years) is just 47 seconds even without going out of my way to push for major Global Recharge bonuses. Factoring in cast time that's about 30s up/20s down. That's FAR better than I was enjoying on live; almost to the point of being active every other spawn. Being able to effectively floor the hit chance of every other spawn is a MASSIVE plus for a Sonic Resonance toon (OK, yes, Purple patch reduces the effctiveness of all that -ToHit by a good bit... but I can still stack it with Diamagnetic and Barrier and Lores!)

I would not recommend procbombing Liquefy (although if you ARE going to then go for Cloud Senses, Touch of Lady Grey and Shield Breaker over any damage procs from Targeted AoE Damage or Hold IO sets; as those will get additional chances to activate every 10s) but I would 100% recommend taking it and ED-capping Recharge and -ToHit.

[EDIT: Testing shows that the Hold and Targeted AoE damage set Procs are actually using the recharge of the parent power, not the pseudopet. So you can ED cap Liquefy's recharge and these procs will still get a capped 90% to activate once on initial casting. Procs from the -ToHit and -Def sets get 15.3% chance to activate on casting and every 10s thereafter, for 3 opportunities total. Whilst personally I'd still recommend ED-capping its Recharge and -ToHit over damage procs; if you've no other source of AoE damage then procbombing it with Hold and TAoE sets is technically a viable option]
 

Edited Sunday at 09:05 PM by Maelwys

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Maelwys said:

I would not recommend procbombing it (although if you ARE going to then go for Cloud Senses, Touch of Lady Grey and Shield Breaker over any damage procs from Targeted AoE Damage or Hold IO sets; as those will get additional chances to activate every 10s) but I would 100% recommend ED-capping Recharge and -ToHit.

 

I want to say that I tried all combinations of %damage in it, and it was the hold piece for the Pets.Liquefy and Liquefy.Shock that was the most reliable. The Targeted AoE %procs go off on-cast, and are incredibly reliable. IIRC everything else was acting as a pseudo-pet, so "bad %proc" chances.

[Maelwys]

21 hours ago, tidge said:

I want to say that I tried all combinations of %damage in it, and it was the hold piece for the Pets.Liquefy and Liquefy.Shock that was the most reliable. The Targeted AoE %procs go off on-cast, and are incredibly reliable. IIRC everything else was acting as a pseudo-pet, so "bad %proc" chances.

IIRC because those effects live under Liquefy.Shock rather than under Liquefy itself and the parent Liquefy power is executing Liquefy.Shock as a "new power" (rather than redirecting to it like what happens in many other pseudopet abilities) any Targeted AoE or Hold Procs end up getting based off the listed base Recharge Time of that new Liquefy.Shock power (10s) rather than that of the parent Liquefy (150s). Meaning that they would get exactly the same initial 15.30% chance to activate as the -ToHit and -Defence debuff procs (assuming enough +accuracy or -defense to cap the hit rate of all the procs equally). However because that new Liquefy.Shock power is also flagged as inheriting Recharge Reduction enhancements, the internal "local recharge" of that new power can drop; which in turn lowers the proc rate of those Targeted AoE or Hold Procs... and since the lingering Liquefy.Liquefy pseudopet only inherits ToHit debuff and Defense debuff enhancements, those other types unfortunately won't get any additional opportunities to activate after that first initial tick.

However I could well be misremembering things; as it's been a while since I poked at it (my Corruptor isn't exactly as hurting for AoEs as some Controllers might be; the only proc they've ever used in it is an Achilles' Heel!) and unfortunately I won't have the chance to hop on Brainstorm until the middle of next week.

-ToHit/-Def procs in the Pseudopet should definitely be getting a 15.30% chance to apply on cast and every 10s thereafter (e.g. 3 opportunities total; per proc) though.

[EDIT: Testing shows that the Hold and Targeted AoE damage set Procs are actually using the recharge of the parent power, not the pseudopet. So you can ED cap Liquefy's recharge and these procs will still get a capped 90% to activate once on initial casting. Procs from the -ToHit and -Def sets get 15.3% chance to activate on casting and every 10s thereafter, for 3 opportunities total. Whilst personally I'd still recommend ED-capping its Recharge and -ToHit over damage procs; if you've no other source of AoE damage then procbombing it with Hold and TAoE sets is technically a viable option]
 

Edited Sunday at 09:05 PM by Maelwys

[Doomguide2005]

Very often mine is added in under a Bonfire (or two) with me sitting in the middle with 3 Imps while running Hot Feet and using proc'd up Char on foes.  It's not always a fast defeat but it makes for a satisfying stream of orange numbers.  Fold space is a handy way to load up the area as well, but unless solo that tends to be fairly judicious in use preferably while standing next to the Tanker or Brute.

[Maelwys]

  

21 hours ago, Maelwys said:

However I could well be misremembering things; as it's been a while since I poked at it (my Corruptor isn't exactly as hurting for AoEs as some Controllers might be; the only proc they've ever used in it is an Achilles' Heel!) and unfortunately I won't have the chance to hop on Brainstorm until the middle of next week.

FWIW I managed to grab 20mins earlier and did a few very quick + dirty RWZ pylon tests with a bunch of procs and enhancement unslotters.

Long story short, it looks like @tidge is correct here and the Hold and Targeted AoE damage set Procs are indeed actually using the recharge of the parent power. So you can ED cap Liquefy's recharge and these procs will still get a capped 90% to activate once on initial casting. Procs from the -ToHit and -Def sets are definitely getting a lesser chance to activate on casting; but it's repeating as expected every 10s thereafter for 3 opportunities total (the predicted 15.3% pseudopet chance seems about right for these procs; so that's what I'm going with!). Whilst personally I'd still recommend ED-capping Liquefy's Recharge and -ToHit over loading it up with damage procs; if you've no other source of AoE damage then procbombing it with Hold and TAoE sets is technically a viable option.

[6-slotted with 6x Damage Procs from TAoE and Hold sets]



[6-slotted with 2x Lv50+5 Rech IOs and 3x Damage Procs from -Def and -ToHit sets, plus an Achilles' Heel]



(I also did 10 more tests with a mix of 3x Hold and 3x -ToHit/-Def Damage procs - it was rare that any of the Hold procs failed to kick in on casting; but there were only seven instances where one of the other procs kicked in on casting... which is much closer to the predicted 15.3% pseudopet proc chance than it is to a capped 90% proc rate!)
 

Edited Sunday at 09:33 PM by Maelwys