Personal Bases / Lairs

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

You can already do that to a large extent.

And you left out the countering disadvantage.  The more granular your storage (the more SG's you have) the more complex and time consuming it becomes to manage.  And the more complex it is to manage, the fewer and fewer people that will actually do it.

Only the most dedicated basement dwelling neckbeard is really going to have the time, energy, and attention span to totally detach themselves from the economy.  Let alone the interest in doing so.

If players are already willing to make multiple SGs for storage as has already been shown in multiple discussions about having multi-base storage access on the other threads asking for the exact same thing, then the whole excessively granular becomes excessive to manage argument falls apart. Players are already willing to do this even with the complication of only being able to be in one SG per character at a time.

 

Edit: And just how complicated/difficult to manage do you really think it would be? You just treat the SGs like they are database entry names. Purple Danger Rangers, so the purples go here. Rare Hunters, so the rare salvage goes here. Fisticuffers, so non-purple melee sets go here. So on and so forth.

 

Edit again: But then they have to make the bases for all of that? Pop into new sorting SG base, add a single large room, throw your storage bins into said large room, and done. Maybe even throw a letter near groups for name of set sorting for the bins.

 

Edited March 4 by Rudra

[arcane]

I don’t have a dog in this fight, so I’m a bit ignorant, but I don’t understand the use of the word exploit here. It seems to me that exploits are called exploits because they are advantageous. I don’t really understand what advantages players would get from having extra storage space.

[Rudra]

23 minutes ago, arcane said:

I don’t have a dog in this fight, so I’m a bit ignorant, but I don’t understand the use of the word exploit here. It seems to me that exploits are called exploits because they are advantageous. I don’t really understand what advantages players would get from having extra storage space.

I don't remember the explanation for the exploit part, though I did call it an exploit in my post.

 

The more storage capacity we have, the less we need to offload into the market to free up space in our limited storage. The market is there to help burn our inf' and provide resources players may need but weren't favored by RNGesus to get to be able to get, so I don't support anything that further weakens the game market/economy.

[TheMoneyMaker]

13 hours ago, Rudra said:

I don't remember the explanation for the exploit part, though I did call it an exploit in my post.

 

The more storage capacity we have, the less we need to offload into the market to free up space in our limited storage. The market is there to help burn our inf' and provide resources players may need but weren't favored by RNGesus to get to be able to get, so I don't support anything that further weakens the game market/economy.

Everyone has a great deal of storage space with having personal bases already, additional storage by just dropping stuff in the auction house without posting it, 1000 character slots per server to mule stuff around, and a fairly decent on character storage capacity. Despite all that, the market does fine.

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Everyone has a great deal of storage space with having personal bases already, additional storage by just dropping stuff in the auction house without posting it, 1000 character slots per server to mule stuff around, and a fairly decent on character storage capacity. Despite all that, the market does fine.

Great! So with all the storage we already have, we don't need more. Thanks for the support.

[TheMoneyMaker]

17 hours ago, Rudra said:

Great! So with all the storage we already have, we don't need more. Thanks for the support.

It's not about need, it's about making that storage easier. Why should we have to make alts just to mule around more stuff?

 

It's obvious that more isn't hurting the economy as you say, so not wanting it for false reasons seems kind of petty.

[Rudra]

34 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

It's not about need, it's about making that storage easier. Why should we have to make alts just to mule around more stuff?

 

It's obvious that more isn't hurting the economy as you say, so not wanting it for false reasons seems kind of petty.

As I said, I believe we should not make it easier to hoard. If players want to hoard? Go for it. Play the way you want. Just like if players want to run farms? Go for it. Play the way you want. That does not mean the game should actively try to support it though. The market exists for us to place things we have no room to store and/or don't need/want so that others that may need/want it can get it. If the current effort players make to hoard is too much for them? Then there is the market ready and waiting. Otherwise, go on, hoard whatever you want. I don't support making it easier though.

[TheMoneyMaker]

42 minutes ago, Rudra said:

As I said, I believe we should not make it easier to hoard. If players want to hoard? Go for it. Play the way you want. Just like if players want to run farms? Go for it. Play the way you want. That does not mean the game should actively try to support it though. The market exists for us to place things we have no room to store and/or don't need/want so that others that may need/want it can get it. If the current effort players make to hoard is too much for them? Then there is the market ready and waiting. Otherwise, go on, hoard whatever you want. I don't support making it easier though.

Well, I disagree with your premise of hoarding vs reusing things, and I think the existence of all this potential storage proves that your concerns are unfounded. It comes off as more doom and gloom "people won't sell the stuff I want and I disagree with that" than anything else.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Well, I disagree with your premise of hoarding vs reusing things, and I think the existence of all this potential storage proves that your concerns are unfounded. It comes off as more doom and gloom "people won't sell the stuff I want and I disagree with that" than anything else.

Interpret it however you want. I don't care. However, I don't think requests to enable players to bypass/ignore parts of the game should be supported. You don't agree with me? That's fine. We disagree.

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Interpret it however you want. I don't care. However, I don't think requests to enable players to bypass/ignore parts of the game should be supported. You don't agree with me? That's fine. We disagree.

START Vendors and Null the Gull are all about bypassing and ignoring parts of the game that people don't like. So is AE. So are a lot of things. I fail to see why storage is the line that can't be crossed, especially when your reasoning for it is categorically false.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

START Vendors and Null the Gull are all about bypassing and ignoring parts of the game that people don't like. So is AE. So are a lot of things. I fail to see why storage is the line that can't be crossed, especially when your reasoning for it is categorically false.

You want to continue? Okay.

 

START vendors don't give us the means to bypass or ignore any parts of the game. What the START vendors provide are formerly prestige powers, non-power pool travels (that were already available back on Live), some supplemental powers like charges of summons, some vanity powers, and the ability to increase the rate at which we level at the cost of non-mission completion reward inf'. You can't camp at a START vendor and just level up there or craft there or store there as a part of using START. So that comparison fails.

 

Null the Gull has a power that turns you into a gull for a badge, lets you turn off being able to be affected by Group Fly because it prevents some powers from working, prevents some emotes from working, and there are players that simply don't want to be affected by it and the only way to do that was with a hidden power; lets you access other zones that have a theme but aren't available for doing missions in or defeating mobs in, lets you know what AVs you are still missing for a badge, and generally provides options that could not be incorporated into the options menu. And as the Live devs stated, they wished they could remove Null the Gull, but he was the only way they could provide some of the services that were asked for. He does not level you up, does not provide you with storage options, doesn't craft anything for you, or do anything that would bypass or ignore the game. So that comparison fails.

(Edit: Right, Null the Gull also lets players simply change to their desired alignment. And yes, that can be argued as bypassing/ignoring the game, but it mostly enables playing the game with friends on the other side or by expediting access to said other side to play its content, or even let players start their characters as vigilantes or rogues rather than have to wait until level 20 to have the correct alignment for their character. That's the only part of Null the Gull that works in your favor for this discussion.)

 

AE was intended to give players the ability to create new stories for other players to experience (and hopefully) enjoy. What it is most commonly used for however is farming. Yes, playing through AE lets players bypass/ignore the game. They can sit all day at an AE hub and level from 1 to 50+3 while earning the inf' needed to buy their enhancements and still get enhancement, recipe, and salvage drops just like they are playing the game outside of AE. However, there are no mission completion rewards for using AE and as far as I am aware, the xp and inf' rewards available from AE are reduced as compared to dev provided content. Farming is very much allowed. The live devs found out the hard way there was no way to stop farming. So farm away to your heart's content if you want. However, it is not encouraged by providing means to simplify the farming process such as by having infinite mobs spawn on a map so that a single map can be used indefinitely, increasing the xp/inf' rates of the AE mobs, or granting mission completion rewards; all of which has been requested on these forums. Because while it is fine if players choose to use AE instead of the dev provided content? The game is not being adjusted to encourage or simplify it. So AE is the only relevant comparison you provided, and even it supports my stance.

 

If players want to build bases simply for storage? They can. More power to them. As someone who loves building bases, I understand the joy they (hopefully) feel putting it all together. If players want to link their SGs in coalitions? They can. The limit should probably be increased, but we can have personal bases and group bases at the same time already like how the OP is asking for by use of coalitions. (What s the Justice League after all? They are a coalition of super heroes that have a shared facility for coordinated group actions. While still having a personal base/lair from which they more routinely operate out of as applicable to the character.) If players want to make storage bases and link them for storage? Go right ahead. They already can. However, just like with AE farming, I don't think doing so should be encouraged such as by making base storage across coalitions open to all coalition members or for "public" use (since the bases would likely be given access codes and not shared with the public but rather be used for ease of storage and transfer). Rather, if players don't want to make use of the market? If they want to use as many bases as they possibly can for their personal use? Go right ahead, but I firmly do not believe the game should be changed to make it any easier than it already is.

 

Does that clarify my position? Can we simply disagree now? Or is there need for further clarification that you will insist is petty because you don't agree with it?

 

Edited March 6 by Rudra

[TheMoneyMaker]

START Vendors offer 5 free enhancements at the start, bonus attack powers, skipping the need for earned levels to have some additional firepower at level 1. And for some influence you can get both an individual and team mission teleporter that skips you right to the door of an instanced mission, buffs to your attack, defense, and survivability, and even more attack and travel powers.  Some people choose not to use any of the START vendor optional stuff, or maybe just a little bit.  It doesn't hurt the game for anyone else how they choose to use or not use the options.

 

Null the Gull lets you skip past the need to run alignment missions to switch alignments, and doing so immediately gives you access to the alignment power of the alignment you choose rather than having to wait 7 days.  But people still run alignment missions despite the shortcut being there.

 

There already exists ways to skip through aspects of the game, ignoring what used to be considered necessary time sinks.  And since we're talking about base storage and changes to the game, let's talk about prestige being turned off so that anyone can create a supergroup and build a base for each character they create, as big as they want with every amenity available at zero cost... at level 1.  Again, people can create as much storage space as they want and it hasn't stopped the game economy from working.

 

You are perfectly entitled to not want to see options added, but don't make up reasons for not wanting it that are obviously false.  I mean, if you want to, I guess go ahead, but I'll happily point out the fallacy rather than just "agree to disagree." I mean, since when are you Mr. Agree to Disagree anyhow? I've seen you like a dog with a bone vehemently naysaying some people's ideas because you don't like the idea of it, and you refuse to just let those arguments sit with a simple agree to disagree.  So come on, give me better arguments than the game economy will suffer or just admit you're making up excuses because you don't want the change.

[Rudra]

10 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

START Vendors offer 5 free enhancements at the start, bonus attack powers, skipping the need for earned levels to have some additional firepower at level 1.

None of these skip leveling. They give your character additional tools, but you still have to level up to get your sets' next powers and enhancement slots.

 

11 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

And for some influence you can get both an individual and team mission teleporter that skips you right to the door of an instanced mission,

Does not skip the game. It lets you get to the game's current mission for your character faster, but you are still playing the game. Just saving travel time.

 

12 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

buffs to your attack, defense, and survivability, and even more attack and travel powers. 

Does not skip or ignore any parts of the game. It makes the game easier to play.

 

12 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Null the Gull lets you skip past the need to run alignment missions to switch alignments, and doing so immediately gives you access to the alignment power of the alignment you choose rather than having to wait 7 days.

No it doesn't. Using Null the Gull to change alignments still has the 7 day wait period to unlock the new alignment's power. I've swapped using Null frequently and always still had to wait for the alignment power. So, nope, not skipped/ignored.

 

15 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I mean, if you want to, I guess go ahead, but I'll happily point out the fallacy rather than just "agree to disagree." I mean, since when are you Mr. Agree to Disagree anyhow? I've seen you like a dog with a bone vehemently naysaying some people's ideas because you don't like the idea of it, and you refuse to just let those arguments sit with a simple agree to disagree. 

I have on several occasions elected to simply agree to disagree. Mostly on things I don't feel that strongly about. I have also been making a conscientious effort to be less argumentative on the forums. Though you seem dead set on making sure that goes out the window.

 

18 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

So come on, give me better arguments than the game economy will suffer or just admit you're making up excuses because you don't want the change.

The fact that you don't think the game economy is a sufficiently good argument in your book is not my concern. It is still a valid argument no matter how much you disagree. You stated you disagreed with me. I agreed we disagreed. We could have just left it at that. You don't like my justification for base storage being linked as proposed by not the OP or the author of this thread do not be done? That's fine. We have different opinions on the matter. So if you feel as strongly as you seem to about letting base storage be linked across coalitions, then how about you give a reason why that change should be done rather than argue that you don't like the reason I gave for not doing it?

[TheMoneyMaker]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The fact that you don't think the game economy is a sufficiently good argument in your book is not my concern.

If you're going to present it as an excuse for your disagreement, it was your concern to start with. If you want to present your opinions and walk away with whatever "evidence" you choose, then you certainly can. But as you can put those opinions out there, so too am I free to refute them.  No one is forcing you to argue the point, but no one forced you to comment to start with either.  Everything is on you the moment you choose to involve yourself in the discussion.

[SeraphimKensai]

Why not be in your personal SG? And make a macro to the main SG for entering the base?

 

My guild has a main base and multiple sub teams that have individual bases that we use macros to navigate. Quite a few of us have individual sg/bases too.

[Excraft]

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

The market exists for us to place things we have no room to store and/or don't need/want so that others that may need/want it can get it

 

While true, the market is also seeded.  This game doesn't have the population to be relying solely on players putting stuff up for sale on the AH. 

[mistagoat]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Why not be in your personal SG? And make a macro to the main SG for entering the base?

 

My guild has a main base and multiple sub teams that have individual bases that we use macros to navigate. Quite a few of us have individual sg/bases too.

I don't know how I've never tried this before but could you be inside your main base and go over to the entrance portal (without leaving) and click your macro to go to another base? 

I always exit my main base to Pocket D then click the macro to go elsewhere but I'd love to cut a load screen out of the process.

[ShardWarrior]

43 minutes ago, mistagoat said:

I don't know how I've never tried this before but could you be inside your main base and go over to the entrance portal (without leaving) and click your macro to go to another base? 

 

Yes.  The /enterbasefrompasscode macro will work from within bases. 

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

While true, the market is also seeded.  This game doesn't have the population to be relying solely on players putting stuff up for sale on the AH. 

While the market is indeed seeded, the set costs for those seeded items is so high, we will never hit those seeded items until players stop dropping things into the market.

[Excraft]

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

While the market is indeed seeded, the set costs for those seeded items is so high, we will never hit those seeded items until players stop dropping things into the market.

 

There's no reason to believe that players would stop putting things into the market.  Everyone already has the capability to hoard insane levels of salvage and enhancements, but there's still plenty of stuff available in the market. 

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

There's no reason to believe that players would stop putting things into the market.  Everyone already has the capability to hoard insane levels of salvage and enhancements, but there's still plenty of stuff available in the market. 

Yes, players can already hoard things. That doesn't mean we should make doing so any easier than it already is.

 

Edit: It's like that one request to simply have all missions be at a single door someone posted a while ago. Yes, we have Mission Teleporter and Team Transporter that will move us directly to the mission door, but why should we simply let players camp at a single door AE style to do game content? Well, players can already build all the SG bases they want and store as much as they want, but why should we make doing so any easier than it already is?

 

Edited March 6 by Rudra

[mistagoat]

49 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Yes.  The /enterbasefrompasscode macro will work from within bases. 

OMG! Thank you! I can't believe I never knew this! Think of all those wasted seconds!

[Excraft]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Yes, players can already hoard things. That doesn't mean we should make doing so any easier than it already is.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think opening up salvage racks and enhancement tables to everyone is needed either, but if it were implemented, I don't see it having the negative impact you seem to be concerned about. 

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think opening up salvage racks and enhancement tables to everyone is needed either, but if it were implemented, I don't see it having the negative impact you seem to be concerned about. 

Then while we agree on one aspect, we disagree on another.

[TheMoneyMaker]

7 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Why not be in your personal SG? And make a macro to the main SG for entering the base?

 

My guild has a main base and multiple sub teams that have individual bases that we use macros to navigate. Quite a few of us have individual sg/bases too.

Unless you can share resources with people outside of the supergroup, then being a member of the supergroup becomes necessary for utilizing the storage items of the SG base. It's easy enough for everyone who wants to link their characters with a personal base to a supergroup with coalitions. The inconvenience comes from not being part of the supergroup.....can't access the SG base's storage, don't get the SGMotD, etc. It's like none of the benefits of SG membership but at least you can enter the base at will.