WarShade

[EricR701]

wanted to see if your planning on changing them up ? like adding more powers when your in your dwarf form and nova, there awesome but the amount of attacks you have feels very slugglish !! just wanted to see if you have any plans to upgrade them ??

[TygerDarkstorm]

If you browse around, you'll see that any major changes for Khelds are not likely to happen until the dev team is able to figure out some way to fix the changeling exploit.

You're also not likely going to get a direct dev response here--they don't tend to reply to these threads. I can't imagine that they would add more attacks/abilities to Nova/Dwarf form, but never say never I suppose.

 

Also, as an aside, if you want to stay "in the know" of what the devs are cooking up for HC, I believe applications for closed beta are open.

[Psyonico]

Just going to say if they were to add more powers to the forms, it would make PBs and WSs even more slot hungry.

[tidge]

To the OP:

 

Khelds are in a weird spot (and have been for a long time). My PoV is this: The multi-form basis of the AT(s) essentially means that the performance of the powers inherent to the (non-human) forms is going to be effectively 'level-locked', in this sense:

• The Nova form blasts are pretty much the equivalent of low-level blaster powers
• The Dwarf form gets great survival tools, but mediocre melee tools (akin to lower-level melee powers)

The "changeling exploit" is a sort of way to overcome the otherwise poor performance the ATs will have if they rely (mostly) on one form... so there is a dual issue with Kheldians that:

1. The dev team has to come up with something better,
2. The dev team has to close the 'changeling exploit' loophole (without crippling the multi-form identity of Kheldians)

I think it is an open question if #2 is possible... but the bigger issue is probably #1. I've liked a lot of what the HC devs have added, but when it comes to power sets for players, the bag of tricks appears to be: combination mechanics, pseudopets, (semi-hidden) status flags. I don't think any of these approaches would translate well to the multi-form Kheldians, and I don't think there is an appetite to scrap the ATs and start over.

 

My (personal) current thinking is that (assuming changeling exploit is done away with) the most natural way to allow Kheldian non-human forms to "scale up" with level content would be to alter the powers of the non-human forms to use formula (for damage, mostly) to have a sort of extra dynamic scaling (based on player level) so that (for example) the Nova form blasts don't always feel like a player is using a bunch of T1-T4 attacks against level 50s.

[Jacke]

6 hours ago, tidge said:

My (personal) current thinking is that (assuming changeling exploit is done away with) the most natural way to allow Kheldian non-human forms to "scale up" with level content would be to alter the powers of the non-human forms to use formula (for damage, mostly) to have a sort of extra dynamic scaling (based on player level) so that (for example) the Nova form blasts don't always feel like a player is using a bunch of T1-T4 attacks against level 50s.

 

The current Kheldian Powers do scale up as the Level of a Kheldian increases.  Sure, they're still T1-T4 attacks, but that can be adjusted as well as these tables (looking at the Kheldian column).

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/modifiers-table.html?mod=melee_damage

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/modifiers-table.html?mod=ranged_damage

 

 

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

 

The current Kheldian Powers do scale up as the Level of a Kheldian increases.  Sure, they're still T1-T4 attacks, but that can be adjusted as well as these tables (looking at the Kheldian column).

 

I was thinking specifically as a 'extra' (additive) scaling factor right in the power formulae (with a subtractive recharge factor?) to make them essentially bridge from being the equivalent of a T4 to something more like a T7 or T8 as the Nova player levels up. Alternatively, based on MM henchmen summons, we know that player level can be checked prior to the power manifesting... so I can imagine flat-out different formulae, but this would be a step-change rather than a gradual ramping up.

 

My thinking was "low level blasts from other ATs typically get disfavored as those ATs level, but Nova forms are stuck with them".

[Jacke]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

My thinking was "low level blasts from other ATs typically get disfavored as those ATs level, but Nova forms are stuck with them".

 

Radiation Blast's T1 Neutrino Bolt (1.5s Base Recharge) on Defenders and Corruptors has such good DPS that it's immensely better than any other attack.  It has slightly less DPA than the T2 X-Ray Beam, but the T1's far faster Base Recharge really matters.  Skip the T2 and the T1 with the T5 Snipe Proton Volley (12s Base Recharge) and the T7 Cosmic Burst (10s Base Recharge), that's all that's needed for ST, just add in the AoEs and maybe Aim to boost the T9 Nuke.  (The Cone is brutally slow and doesn't fit with the near-Melee Range that Radiation Blast Toons fight at, especially after being used to the best Cone in the game, Assault Rifle's Buckshot.)

 

The problem with the Squid Blasts could be fixed by being a bit more like Defender/Corruptor Radiation Blast.  That would need 3 total ST attacks, matching Radiation Blast's Neutrino Bolt, Proton Volley, and Cosmic Burst.

 

That would mean adding another ST Blast, which, as @Psyonico has pointed out, would make Kheldian's slot hunger worse.

 

But adding another ST Blast isn't necessary, as in Issue 25, Kheldian Forms got access to the T1 and T2 from their Blast Powerset if they're taken.

 

The Dwarf gets the Neutrino Bolt equivalent T1 Luminous / Umbral Blast Power, Gleaming / Shadow Bolt (1.5s Base Recharge), good for a Ranged ST taunt and damage.

 

The Nova gets the X-Ray Beam equivalent:

• T2 Luminous / Umbral Blast Glinting / Ebon Eye (4.0s Base Recharge)
• Along with the Nova attacks
  • Bright / Dark Nova Bolt (1.5s Base Recharge), Neutrino Bolt equivalent, and
  • Bright / Dark Nova Blast (4.0s Base Recharge)

These could make a good 3-Blast set, likely with a ST chain like this: ( Nova Bolt - Eye - Nova Bolt - Nova Blast ), Powers below for a Warshade:
https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=warshade_offensive.umbral_blast.dark_nova_bolt&at=warshade

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=kheldian_pets.umbral_blast.nova_ebon_eye&at=warshade

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=warshade_offensive.umbral_blast.dark_nova_blast&at=warshade

 

So, the Human-form T2 needs to be slotted as well as the Nova T1 and T2 (the Human-form T1 as many Extra Slots as can be spared...?).  But there's only 67 Extra Slots to go around....

 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so this needs testing..  It's been a while since I did anything with Kheldians.  May test it out when I get some good Kheldian builds.

 

 

[biostem]

On 4/19/2025 at 10:34 PM, Psyonico said:

Just going to say if they were to add more powers to the forms, it would make PBs and WSs even more slot hungry.

IMO, Kheldians are only "slot-hungry" because taking Nova and/or Dwarf forms gives you like 5 powers for the price of 1, not to mention all the other freebie powers they get from their versions of flight or teleportation pool powers.  If we take into consideration all the free slots they get as a result of this, they can be quite far ahead of other ATs in terms of total available slots - it's just moving past the urge to have all your powers 6-slotted that's the difficult part...

[tidge]

5 hours ago, biostem said:

IMO, Kheldians are only "slot-hungry" because taking Nova and/or Dwarf forms gives you like 5 powers for the price of 1, not to mention all the other freebie powers they get from their versions of flight or teleportation pool powers.  If we take into consideration all the free slots they get as a result of this, they can be quite far ahead of other ATs in terms of total available slots - it's just moving past the urge to have all your powers 6-slotted that's the difficult part...

 

I don't disagree about being judicious in the choice of where to put slots (in a multi-form). On my builds the Nova form ST attacks often simply hold a small number (3 or fewer) enhancement pieces (IIRC, I slot one of the ATO here). Dwarf form tends to get more slots in its powers, since the Dwarf is the survivable form.

 

The extra potential for slotting the forms' travel powers is somewhat hit-or-miss. I like those powers as mules, with occasional extra slotting, but I don't consider them (extra travel powers for mules) to be that advantageous.