A de-backpack costume power for Crab Spiders

[Talen Lee]

I did search, couldn't find this specific thing.

 

I recognise there are all sorts of problems with turning off the backpack and animation jank. But I'd really appreciate just as a roleplay tool, a toggle in the vein of Disable All Powers/Only Affecting Self powers, for Prismatic Shards, that at least let me hide the model  of the crab backpack for situations where a character is meant to not have it. 

 

'Twould be nice.

[Rudra]

The backpack is where all the Crab Spider's attacks come from. Why should it be able to be disabled? Now, if you were saying to be able to make it go away when you swap over to your Bane Spider build? That I can agree with.

[Talen Lee]

5 hours ago, Rudra said:

Why should it be able to be disabled

Oh sorry, you might have missed this bit in the original post:

6 hours ago, Talen Lee said:

that at least let me hide the model  of the crab backpack for situations where a character is meant to not have it. 

Happy to help!

[TheMoneyMaker]

8 hours ago, Rudra said:

The backpack is where all the Crab Spider's attacks come from. Why should it be able to be disabled? Now, if you were saying to be able to make it go away when you swap over to your Bane Spider build? That I can agree with.

My character has flight. Why should I be able to turn it off?

Some people have gun attacks. Why should their guns not ALWAYS be in hand and ready to use?

Nature Affinity characters can control plants and are surrounded by plant life, but only when using their powers.....why not have them wrapped in plants at all times?

 

Because sometimes you're not actively using your powers and don't want to have some visual effect dominating your presence.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Talen Lee said:

Oh sorry, you might have missed this bit in the original post:

Happy to help!

I didn't miss it. The issue is that as long as the character has his/her/their/its attacks available, the source of those attacks needs to be available. It isn't like a sword or gun that can be sheathed or stowed. It is a backpack. It is both stowed and deployed right where it is. So the only way I can see this working is if whatever hides the backpack also renders all the Crab Spider attacks no longer available.

[TheMoneyMaker]

30 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I didn't miss it. The issue is that as long as the character has his/her/their/its attacks available, the source of those attacks needs to be available. It isn't like a sword or gun that can be sheathed or stowed. It is a backpack. It is both stowed and deployed right where it is. So the only way I can see this working is if whatever hides the backpack also renders all the Crab Spider attacks no longer available.

No attacks available should allow for the backpack to not be rendered, such as activating Walk, which suppresses all powers and makes attacking impossible.

 

Just because it is a backpack does not mean that it should be impossible to hide it. Characters with the two-handed titan weapons can choose not to carry them on their back and the weapon appears to be pulled out of nothingness. Why is this (and all other weapon attacks) acceptable but concealing a backpack with mechanical arms not an option?

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

No attacks available should allow for the backpack to not be rendered, such as activating Walk, which suppresses all powers and makes attacking impossible.

 

Just because it is a backpack does not mean that it should be impossible to hide it. Characters with the two-handed titan weapons can choose not to carry them on their back and the weapon appears to be pulled out of nothingness. Why is this (and all other weapon attacks) acceptable but concealing a backpack with mechanical arms not an option?

Because I always considered character weapons sheathed/stowed and carried on the character's body when not in use, but until recently the game lacked the ability to show it. Well, even when the backpack is stowed, it is on the character's back. If it wasn't, then lugging the backpack around would be way more tiring and cumbersome to the character or it simply would not be there for the character to use for it being left at base/home/lair.

 

Edit again: Even if the character possessed some sort of spatial storage system to not have to wear the backpack and immediately retrieve it for combat, there would be the matter of getting the backpack and putting it on. Even Iron Man with his tricks and advanced gimmicks had to wait for his suit to put itself on him, which was downtime where he wasn't fighting or wait time while he was plummeting to his death.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 05:32 PM by Rudra
Edited to remove unnecessary "do".

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Because I always considered character weapons sheathed/stowed and carried on the character's body when not in use, but until recently the game lacked the ability to show it. Well, even when the backpack is stowed, it is on the character's back. If it wasn't, then lugging the backpack around would be way more tiring and cumbersome to the character or it simply would not be there for the character to use for it being left at base/home/lair.

 

Titan weapons conceal all too well if someone chooses not to display it on the back. I think that's the point of contention here, though....that those items have an option to sheath or simply disappear when not in use but the backback must always be visible whether in use or not, even if the attacks are suppressed and not able to be used.

[Rudra]

Just now, TheMoneyMaker said:

Titan weapons conceal all too well if someone chooses not to display it on the back. I think that's the point of contention here, though....that those items have an option to sheath or simply disappear when not in use but the backback must always be visible whether in use or not, even if the attacks are suppressed and not able to be used.

 

45 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I didn't miss it. The issue is that as long as the character has his/her/their/its attacks available, the source of those attacks needs to be available. It isn't like a sword or gun that can be sheathed or stowed. It is a backpack. It is both stowed and deployed right where it is. So the only way I can see this working is if whatever hides the backpack also renders all the Crab Spider attacks no longer available.

 

[TheMoneyMaker]

Well, I hope we can all just choose to ignore your "logic" and move forward with what to do about it rather than trying to explain why nothing should be done.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Well, I hope we can all just choose to ignore your "logic" and move forward with what to do about it rather than trying to explain why nothing should be done.

You don't bother reading my comments, do you? Let me post it a third time now:

 

58 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 So the only way I can see this working is if whatever hides the backpack also renders all the Crab Spider attacks no longer available.

(Edit: Which as it happens, was part of the OP, but I had missed it in my original response.)

 

Edit again: Though I also think a delay for getting those powers back after turning off the toggle is also called for.

 

Edited Thursday at 05:46 PM by Rudra

[Aracknight]

There's no real delay for drawing an invisible sword, bow, or gun to attack.  Why would there be for this?   You don't toggle on/off sheathing/unsheathing your sword, bow, or gun.  Oh, or mace.  Or axe.  Or fire sword.  Or ice sword.  Or etc.  IMO the attacks come from a weapon like anything else, and should follow the same internal logic as any other weapon or set of weapons.  If a gorram titan sword can appear in one's hand out of nowhere, why can't a backpack?   

 

If you want to compare it to other backpack powers instead, my main can't fly without his jetpack temp power.  But when I toggle it on, the backpack appears from out of nowhere and I start flying PDQ.

Edited Thursday at 07:35 PM by Aracknight

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

There's no real delay for drawing an invisible sword, bow, or gun to attack.  Why would there be for this?   You don't toggle on/off sheathing/unsheathing your sword, bow, or gun.  Oh, or mace.  Or axe.  Or fire sword.  Or ice sword.  Or etc.  IMO the attacks come from a weapon like anything else, and should follow the same internal logic as any other weapon or set of weapons.  If a gorram titan sword can appear in one's hand out of nowhere, why can't a backpack?   

You pull a weapon out of your spatial storage system or out of thin air. It is in your hand. Just swing it. You pull a backpack out of your spatial storage system. Now you're holding it, put it on.

 

6 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

If you want to compare it to other backpack powers instead, my main can't fly without his jetpack temp power.  But when I toggle it on, the backpack appears from out of nowhere and I start flying PDQ.

And if that is the route the devs choose to go, that's fine. I would rather it have a delay though. (Edit: If I'm being frank though, I would also rather the temp power jetpacks also have a delay when activated. That ship has sailed though.)

 

Edited Thursday at 07:42 PM by Rudra

[Major_Decoy]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

The backpack is where all the Crab Spider's attacks come from. Why should it be able to be disabled? Now, if you were saying to be able to make it go away when you swap over to your Bane Spider build? That I can agree with.

You can shoot laser eye beams from a headless character. 

[Rudra]

Just now, Major_Decoy said:

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

The backpack is where all the Crab Spider's attacks come from. Why should it be able to be disabled? Now, if you were saying to be able to make it go away when you swap over to your Bane Spider build? That I can agree with.

You can shoot laser eye beams from a headless character. 

Pointing out things I consider to be flaws doesn't help. It just makes me wish the powers checked for costume selections and did something else instead in cases like that.

[TheMoneyMaker]

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And if that is the route the devs choose to go, that's fine. I would rather it have a delay though. (Edit: If I'm being frank though, I would also rather the temp power jetpacks also have a delay when activated. That ship has sailed though.)

 

That's what it always breaks down to, though. What you would rather have. You had your say, but you're less here to contribute to the idea and more to make sure it fits with what you want. So.....opinion easily dismissed.

[Forager]

I haven't given this idea a lot of thought and didn't really read the OP... but I'm totally against this idea because it doesn't fit my limited and specific view of this game world's rules.

 

No amount of sensible and obvious comparisons will make me rethink this position!

 

Just kidding. Yeah it's whack that you can't get rid of it.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 07:59 PM by Forager

[Major_Decoy]

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Pointing out things I consider to be flaws doesn't help. It just makes me wish the powers checked for costume selections and did something else instead in cases like that.

This is not an unreasonable request. You don't like it, you don't have to use it. It does not have to impact your game play at all.

 

You feel like it's lacking Watsonian explanation: There is invisibility technology, there is dimensional warping technology. There is magic. There is hologram technology that can make you look like a tiny version of yourself, with all of your powers emanating from knee height.

 

I am not saying you are wrong for having your preferences, but you are presenting a very weak argument. 

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

This is not an unreasonable request. You don't like it, you don't have to use it. It does not have to impact your game play at all.

 

You feel like it's lacking Watsonian explanation: There is invisibility technology, there is dimensional warping technology. There is magic. There is hologram technology that can make you look like a tiny version of yourself, with all of your powers emanating from knee height.

 

I am not saying you are wrong for having your preferences, but you are presenting a very weak argument. 

You don't read my comments either, do you? Again, and hopefully large enough to not be missed:

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

So the only way I can see this working is if whatever hides the backpack also renders all the Crab Spider attacks no longer available.

See it now? The part where I agree there is a way to make it work? How about this part?

 

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Which as it happens, was part of the OP, but I had missed it in my original response.

 

You jumped in on my thought that there should be a delay for the Crab Spider attacks being available after turning off the power. Okay, you don't think it should. The jetpacks are a good counter to my opinion. Except I also said:

 

50 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And if that is the route the devs choose to go, that's fine.

See that part? That means I am not dead set on the delay. I would prefer it because it fits the idea of putting the backpack away and then putting it back on. And Iron Man doing the same is my justification. You disagree? Okay, I get that. However, in my statements, I am saying the circumstances under which I would find the OP acceptable, and funny enough, the author also says the same thing for how it would work. And here you are, arguing like I am against the OP.

 

For clarity, in my original response, I missed the:

 

12 hours ago, Talen Lee said:

a toggle in the vein of Disable All Powers/Only Affecting Self powers,

So I responded with the assumption the request was for Crab Spider attacks to be available without the backpack. That was not what the author had requested. And to be clear, yes, I will always oppose any request to make a weapon set weaponless. (And yes, a headless character using eyeblasts is wrong to me for the same reasons. Where is the attack coming from?) That was not what was being requested however. What the author requested, and what I said was acceptable, turned out to be the same thing. So where am I opposing the OP?

 

Edited Thursday at 08:29 PM by Rudra
Edited to add missing "the author". And again to correct "Crag" to "Crab".

[Major_Decoy]

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You don't read my comments either, do you? Again, and hopefully large enough to not be missed:

 

See it now? The part where I agree there is a way to make it work? How about this part?

 

 

You jumped in on my thought that there should be a delay for the Crag Spider attacks being available after turning off the power. Okay, you don't think it should. The jetpacks are a good counter to my opinion. Except I also said:

 

See that part? That means I am not dead set on the delay. I would prefer it because it fits the idea of putting the backpack away and then putting it back on. And Iron Man doing the same is my justification. You disagree? Okay, I get that. However, in my statements, I am saying the circumstances under which I would find the OP acceptable, and funny enough, the author also says the same thing for how it would work. And here you are, arguing like I am against the OP.

 

For clarity, in my original response, I missed the:

 

So I responded with the assumption the request was for Crab Spider attacks to be available without the backpack. That was not what the author had requested. And to be clear, yes, I will always oppose any request to make a weapon set weaponless. (And yes, a headless character using eyeblasts is wrong to me for the same reasons. Where is the attack coming from?) That was not what was being requested however. What the author requested, and what I said was acceptable, turned out to be the same thing. So where am I opposing the OP?

 

 

I did read your comments. An invisible backpack does not need to be removed. A backpack in a pocket dimension doesn't necessarily have to be summoned to your hand, it could be summoned directly to a mounting point on your back.

 

Just because you don't immediately think of a reason why there wouldn't need to be a delay doesn't mean there couldn't be one. I am also not arguing for invisible weapons, but I believe there is plenty of in-game explanation for it.

 

(and, to be entirely honest, I get kind of annoyed when my illusion dominator's assault rifle just disappears whenever I cast something from illusion control, even though it's really easy to explain using illusion powers)

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

An invisible backpack does not need to be removed.

This will fall under making a weapon set weaponless to me.

 

2 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

A backpack in a pocket dimension doesn't necessarily have to be summoned to your hand, it could be summoned directly to a mounting point on your back.

Good point. I sit corrected. Doesn't change my preference, but again, my preference isn't something I am dead set on.

[biostem]

I wonder how difficult it would be to simply have a set of invisible crab spider claws;  For all intents and purposes, they're still there, you just can't see them, (chalk it up to cloaking tech or some sort of instantaneous nano-tech assembly as needed)...

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

I wonder how difficult it would be to simply have a set of invisible crab spider claws;  For all intents and purposes, they're still there, you just can't see them, (chalk it up to cloaking tech or some sort of instantaneous nano-tech assembly as needed)...

And why would you make just the arms invisible? If you are carrying around a weapons backpack and you don't want people to know, you hide the entire backpack. If you are going to use cloaking tech to avoid people finding out you are there with a weapons backpack, then why not just completely cloak yourself so people don't even know you are there? If the intent is to socialize with your weapons backpack available, then all you are going to do is cause confusion and panic as the cloaked arms or backpack are still there and people wander into them or you knock things over or other physical interactions find an invisible weapon set or backpack there.

 

(Edit: And I am opposed to weapon sets going weaponless.)

 

Edited Thursday at 08:55 PM by Rudra

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

And why would you make just the arms invisible? If you are carrying around a weapons backpack and you don't want people to know, you hide the entire backpack. If you are going to use cloaking tech to avoid people finding out you are there with a weapons backpack, then why not just completely cloak yourself so people don't even know you are there? If the intent is to socialize with your weapons backpack available, then all you are going to do is cause confusion and panic as the cloaked arms or backpack are still there and people wander into them or you knock things over or other physical interactions find an invisible weapon set or backpack there.

Same reason a person might conceal-carry a firearm or hide a backup weapon;  Your presence somewhere may be unavoidably detectable, but your true capabilities need not be.

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

Same reason a person might conceal-carry a firearm or hide a backup weapon;  Your presence somewhere may be unavoidably detectable, but your true capabilities need not be.

Difference being a handgun can be easily hidden on the body. To the point that it takes a good pat down from someone that knows the concealment tricks to find it. And we are talking about a large spider-shaped backpack with four large arms. Make it invisible and you still have all the mass and space the backpack has smacking into things and otherwise getting people's attention as already mentioned.

 

Edit: It would be far easier to have an accomplice sneak the backpack to you from outside when things go wrong.

 

Edited Thursday at 09:05 PM by Rudra