Grav/ Immobs not converting KB to KD?

[Darling]

Question I couldn't find an answer for.

 

I made a Grav/En Dom and anticipated the Immob powers to help compensate for the annoying KB in /En, as noted in the 5/30/19 patch notes:

"Immobilize Powers in Controller and Dominator primary power sets should no longer make their targets immune to KnockUp. KnockBack will be converted to KnockDown. This helps sets like Ice and Earth, as their AOE Immobilize power will no longer make their AOE Knockback power useless."

 

In running the character, however, I don't find this to be the case. Even while immobilized, Power Push will still send the target backwards. As will the other powers when their KB proc goes off.

 

Is this something that only affects Grav? Has anyone had this same problem on other powersets?

[Machariel]

I believe it was a design choice on Gravity to make the Hold powers, rather than the immobilize powers, prevent knockback.  Why that choice was made (by the original Paragon devs), I'm not sure.

Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought that back on Live, Immobilize powers usually just prevented the knockback instead of converting it to knockdown (which is why AoE Immob + Bonfire didn't work before the KB to KD IOs).

[QuiJon]

Well like everything keep in mind this is likely all a numbers game. The idea behind all of this was that power sets that had powers like ice slick or earth quake those powers were kind of rendered useless because an immbl to keep mobs on the target of effects also provided them with a certain level of knockback/down protection. So it is likely what they did was to take the mag resistance out of the immbl so that it still had the possibility to knocking down an enemy when holding them in place, but increase the knocback resistance to limit the ability of that mob to fly backward out of the target area of the aoe. That number represents a percentage just like a damage resistance would. 

 

But there are knockback effects that have very very high chance of knocking back, like Ki Push or your power push you mentioned because it is all those powers do. It is likely that the resistance that the Immbl gives is just not enough to compensate for everything like very strong powers and procs that are intended to go off and be unable to resist accept by the highest of resistant foes. 

 

Also keep in mind you quoted this yourself 

Quote

...AOE Immobilize power will no longer make their AOE Knockback power useless.

 

The changes you are talking about are not intended to negate a heavy knockback power like power push, a knockback proc or even probably the knockback built into the single target and cone attacks in energy. It was intended to make sure that weaker effects like an AOE immobilize didn't overcome the benefit of dropping an earthquake and making the mobs flop around and stop attacking you. Which is essentially what was happening. My stone cages would provide enough protection that mobs would stand in earthquake and continue to attack rather then be flopping helplessly on the ground like they should have. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by QuiJon

[oedipus_tex]

Prior to the i25 change, there were two types of AoE immobs:

• Class A: Totally Stop Knockdown/Knockup/Knockback by applying a combo of kb protection and resistance
• Class B: No Effect Whatsoever on Knockdown/Knockup/Knockback

 

Class A applied to Ice, Fire, Earth, Plant, and Dark.

 

Class B applied to Gravity and Electric. In both cases it was because it was believed the -kb would interfere too much with the knockback/down of these sets.

 

 

In i25, all Class A powers lost their knockback protection but not their resistance. The result is all kb converts to knockdown.

 

Class B powers were not changed. So Gravity and Electric AoE immobilizes dont convert knockback to knockdown. Perhaps they should, since they are the sets developers originally worried most about. In the meantime, tho, they still work as they have since live.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[QuiJon]

Ah good to know I didn't know they separated the sets like that. I always kind of figured that Grav didn't allow for the protection because it would be messing with the intended consequences of using wormhole. Like they didn't want you immbl a mob and then wormholing them into a night tight group avoiding the way they spit out the other side all over the place.

[justicebeliever]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Prior to the i25 change, there were two types of AoE immobs:

• Class A: Totally Stop Knockdown/Knockup/Knockback by applying a combo of kb protection and resistance
• Class B: No Effect Whatsoever on Knockdown/Knockup/Knockback

 

Class A applied to Ice, Fire, Earth, Plant, and Dark.

 

Class B applied to Gravity and Electric. In both cases it was because it was believed the -kb would interfere too much with the knockback/down of these sets.

 

 

In i25, all Class A powers lost their knockback protection but not their resistance. The result is all kb converts to knockdown.

 

Class B powers were not changed. So Gravity and Electric AoE immobilizes dont convert knockback to knockdown. Perhaps they should, since they are the sets developers originally worried most about. In the meantime, tho, they still work as they have since live.

 

 

There are several posts on this I've seen, this was the clearest and most well stated...Thanks Tex

[oedipus_tex]

On 7/29/2019 at 2:15 PM, QuiJon said:

Ah good to know I didn't know they separated the sets like that. I always kind of figured that Grav didn't allow for the protection because it would be messing with the intended consequences of using wormhole. Like they didn't want you immbl a mob and then wormholing them into a night tight group avoiding the way they spit out the other side all over the place.

 

I don't think Wormhole factored into it, altho it is possible I am wrong. The original Gravity was widely considered one of the weakest in the game until its revamp late in the game's life cycle. One of the few selling points of Gravity back in the day was "At least its AoE immobilize doesn't interfere with knockdown." It was considered a bonus at the time, and some Controllers even slotted knockdown procs in the power to take advantage of the extra control (we were much more innocent in those days and valued those kinds of effects more).

 

When Electric came out it was given the Class B type of AoE immobilize to avoid interference with Jolting Chain. This was interesting because Ice and Earth Control had long struggled with interference  with Ice Slick and Earthquake. But Electric Control, as the second to last Control set ever designed, was built with higher attention to in-set conflicts than either of those sets.

Edited July 30, 2019 by oedipus_tex