Erratic1
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Posts posted by Erratic1
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Base value for Kinetic Shield on a Tanker on test is: 17% Def S/L, 2.5% N
Base value for Kinetic Shield on a Brute on test is: 12.75% Def S/L, 1.88N
So that power starts with a 1.33x difference.
Perhaps if you looked at each power individually, you could find where things are off?
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23 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:
I was on the test server and this is my feedback:
Years ago I ran the numbers and figured out what Tanker Energy Aura would look like. I believe I took the Brute numbers and applied the Tanker modifiers. So my numbers said it should look something like this with even level SOs:
55% E Defense
47.06% N Defense
32.4% F/C Defense
29.12% S/L Defense
21.16% Toxic Defense
6.5% Psi Defense
29.32% Energy Resist
14.66% S/L/N/T Resist
Even without including the +Def from Energy Drain it's easy to see why the devs were worried about proliferating EA to Tankers. When I was on the test server and slotted my level 50 Tanker w/even level SOs here were the actual numbers:
35.1% E Defense
26.52% S/L/F/C Defense
21.84% N Defense
0% Psi/Toxic Defense
31.2% S/L/N/P/T Resist
11.7% F/C Resist
That's quite a difference. Those numbers are mediocre for a Tank and, in the case of Energy Defense, actually worse Defense than I've seen on my EA Brute. Shield tanks get numbers like that and they have a combat teleport and a damage buff!
So, other than Overload being better, how exactly is this version better than the EA that all other ATs get?
Did you consider what EA looks like on other ATs just using SOs without set bonuses?
My level 42 SS/EA Brute, who has all SOs, is as follows (live):
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4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:
Yea, Brutes are good. Still tougher than Scrappers, now unequivocally more dangerous than Tankers.
Still with no good reason to be on a team.
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5 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:
So are Brutes good this round? I read through three pages of comments in this thread about Tankers and I'm not seeing how this relates to Brutes.
This is the normal course of events in the Brute subforum.
I dare say the AT which gets mentioned the most in another AT's forum is Tanker in the Brute forum.
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4 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:
Fire/BA tanker
Live: 4:00
Test: 5:35
Tanky Crab (should be no change other than regen changes on mobs)
Live: 5:00
Test: 5:05
It is taking 39.58% more time for your Tanker to clear. It would take roughly 96 seconds for an opponent to heal that much. From the moment you started damaging targets, they would have to be living more than a minute and a half for their regen to account for that time difference. So, it does not strike me that health regen is the causative factor, or even necessarily a major portion of that increase.
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8 minutes ago, Neiska said:
I quite regularly engage 3-4 groups, especially while farming. At +4/8 difficulty. I do agree that is not the norm though, but that doesn't mean that its not impossible or people don't do it either. I actually prefer "en masse" fighting style, especially with tankers or MMs. Though with this, that is very likely to change.
I am not all that concerned with farming and doubt the game is going to be balanced around it.
Outside of farming, particularly solo, is there a good reason to be fighting more targets than your powers can hit other than you couldn't help but get whatever excess there is?
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4 minutes ago, Neiska said:
Unless you are engaged with more enemies, such as more than 1 spawn, in which case you will gain a G, H, I, etc.
The alphabet ends because you are not fighting infinite monsters. Nor are you, presumably, endlessly chain fighting from mission beginning to mission end--some foes are the end of the chain and so the damage calculation will go up because you are not fighting foes, but rather 12, or 8, or 4.
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21 minutes ago, Neiska said:
well the notes say each target beyond the first takes reduced damage after the next, so unless im reading it wrong its a stacking reduced damage per target effect.
In that particular instant of being hit, yes. But the calculation of doing 31% less damage is only for that particular attack. Things are going to be defeated leaving partially damaged foes to be fully hit on the next area attack and they will always be fully damaged by single target attacks.
[NNNNNNNNNN][A][B][C][D][E][[F] will become [NNNNNNNABC][D][E][F] once the first three [N] are defeated, with [A], [\B], and [C] now taking full damage and [D], [E], and [F] taking increased damage.
Granted, as the decreased damage will be distributed randomly, it is true that the average will hold while targets live, once they start going down, you are going to see more damage going out compared to your calculation because the lowest damage is falling out of the consideration.
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3 hours ago, Neiska said:
I agree. It is pretty dang harsh, if this is correct.
3 hours ago, Maelwys said:There are going to be a lot of upset Tanker players that never even touched damage procs thinking "why is this taking me so long to clear big groups of mobs now"
I am not sure the calculation is correct. It presumes that those taking reduced damage continue to take reduced damage. But as targets are defeated, those still standing and partially damage start taking normal damage.
I am playing a boardgame just now, but if the turns are slow enough perhaps I can (a) make sure the above thought is correct and, if so, (b) come up with a different calculation.
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9 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:
Self damage buff lowered from 1.0x to 0.875x
This a nerf to Build Up and Rage. - Nerf
Left out Follow Up.
Build Up has a recharge period of 90 seconds with 10 seconds duration. The game allows for maximum haste of 400%, so you could drop the recharge to 16 seconds--10 seconds up and 6 seconds down. Under a current damage buff of 80% that is 180% damage for 10 seconds and 100% for 6 seconds. That is 180%*10 + 100%*10 = 2400% damage over 16 seconds or an average of 150% damage.
Nerfing the damage buff to 87.5%*80%=70% changes that average to 143.75%, which is 95.83% of the previous value. And this is assuming you reach and sustain 400% Haste. The lower your actual Haste the higher the percentage and hence lower the impact of the nerf (as goes Build Up).
Follow Up is a bit different since it can be stacked and maintain stacks. Even so, worst case would be three stacks of 30% for 90% reduced to three stacks of 26.25% for 78.75%. That means 1.7875/1.9 = 94.08% effectiveness. So anytime you would have hit a target for 400 damage previously you will now hit for 376.
Yes, it's a nerf. Not sure that single impact would ever be noticeable had it been snuck in.
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4 minutes ago, Octogoat said:
So should I be farming up a farming brute or will my rad armor tanker still do ok?
Tankers will remain your best farming option.
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6 hours ago, Wavicle said:
They're nerfing tanks, not buffing them.
Are Tankers getting Energy Aura, which the patch notes claim was a bit too good, at values which are higher than any AT which had access to it previously?
Well, time for me to start the campaign for Bute Ninjitsu. Not sure why Brutes don't get it since apparently every AT deserves every power.
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3 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:
The mistake was letting people play blue side ATs red side, and red side ATs blue side. They should have stayed with their original faction.
The mistake was (and is) continuing to proliferate every power between melee ATs. At one point, if you wanted to play Dark Melee or Energy Aura, you couldn't do it on every AT, you had to choose the AT(s) which had it. Want to play SS/Energy Aura? On live, you can only do that on a Brute, but come this the next patch...well.
Honestly not sure why they didn't proliferate Super Strength to Scrappers and Stalkers at this point. I suppose on the upside, someday a Ninjitsu Brute and Tanker will be available.
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5 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:
Correct, and because of how mobs group around a tank, this means that wide end is more likely than not to be empty.
Only if you don't move. You can also use the cone on approach. One of my former Tankers made quite extensive use of Energy Torrent and would leap away to do so.
And the cone use consideration is completely off the table when talking PBAOEs.
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9 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:
Functionality for these Cones has been kneecapped as well. Previously, an 80degree cone like Shred would be 120degrees on a Tanker (while procing like 80 still); effectively the character's entire frontal arc. Now it will be 80degrees, same width as Brutes. It will be a whopping 3.5 longer... 10.5ft instead of 7ft.
Area grows as the square of the radius but linearly with angular increase (between 0 and 360 degrees). 7' at 120 degrees is 50% more area than 7' at 80 degrees. 10.5' at 80 degrees is 225% more area than 7' at 80 degrees.
Cones have the issue that their wide end is at the furthest point, but more than double the area is not a downside.
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11 minutes ago, Snarky said:
So, another buff for Tanks. If, perhaps, a minor buff.
Lowered proc rates because powers now get a penalty for their radius and arc, which was not happening before, a 12.5% reduction to the effectiveness of self-damage-buffs (Build Up, Rage, Follow Up), and a somewhat steep damage falloff for mob beyond original target cap being hit is undeniably a bit of a trim. Reports from people playing on Test seem to note it is not exactly being dragged into a dark alley and mugged though.
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10 minutes ago, Uun said:
Resistance provides resistance to resistance debuffs. If your resistance is capped, only 10% of the debuff is getting through.
https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Resistance_(Mechanics)#Resistance_to_Resistance_Debuffs
My understanding is that while your resistance is capped, resistance to debuff is not, so you could push to 100% and prevent any debuff getting through.
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3 minutes ago, Psyonico said:
EA getting nerfed on other ATs is no bearing on Tanks being nerfed.
I responded to your questioning my assertion that BRUTES had been buffed. What you quoted of me makes no mention of Tankers. Here, let me remind you:
QuoteYou could perhaps show where Brutes have been buffed? I must have missed it.
Not seeing Tanker there.
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3 minutes ago, Psyonico said:
Unless I’m missing something, every armor set that is getting changed in this page (except Enery Aura, which tanks didn’t have before this) is getting buffed.
Energy Aura is being nerfed for all ATs which had it so Tankers can get it.
Elect Armor is having Power Sink weakened, nevermind draining mob endurance being worthless.
Perhaps you have "buff" and "nerf" reversed in understanding?
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1 hour ago, skoryy said:
Tankers: "We've been unfairly nerfed!"
Brutes: "Tankers have been unfairly buffed!"
You could perhaps show where Brutes have been buffed? I must have missed it.
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2 hours ago, lemming said:
I wouldn't mind having the Stealth component taken off Brutes and given to Sentinels.
Give Brutes another nerf? Sure. That's why the AT exists, to be nerfed.
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4 hours ago, Jacke said:
Didn't love Tanky enough to give Tanky stealth in Energy Aura. 😾
Stealth is for those cowardly and weak ATs. Not Tankers.
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3 minutes ago, Snarky said:
Yes, the “oh we reduced something on Tankers” is a beautiful smokescreen for the ignorant. And, as current events show, it is easy to fool a great number of people because they some stupid MF-ers and no one listens to the nerds. Chef’s kiss.
Do you know how hard it has been for me to restrain myself in the Focus Feedback thread on Tanker changes as goes complaints about Tankers being nerfed?
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25 minutes ago, Snarky said:
and Brutes. been out in the cold a decade now.
Right now I am thinking of "adapting" my SS/EA Brute (a combination that prior to this only could be done on a Brute) for Tanker glory.
Sure, Tankers are getting a slight nerf to their damage boosting powers. But given their larger area of effects and greater survivability, keeping Entropic Aura saturated and achieving double stacked Rage with maximum overlap of the Rage effects should be even easier.
Checking my Brute's numbers on Mid's, that is double-stacked Rage backed Foot Stomp every 5 seconds, Cross Punch every 1.97 seconds, and Knockout Blow every 6.55 seconds.
And that ignores my KB->KD Energy Torrent set to resistance debuff everything.
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I am done with Brutes
in Brute
Posted
Tankers got extra area via their implicit but proc rates look at the area on the power. "Fix" is probably not the right word, though yes, their areas now count against proc rates in alignment with other ATs. I think the original situation was meant to give them more area with no downside.