Erratic1
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Posts posted by Erratic1
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27 minutes ago, tidge said:
So this is showing that by some measure there may be a 5-to-10 second difference in something?
EDIT: I mean to say: Is this something like a trapdoor test? a Pylon?
Trapdoor:
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30 minutes ago, Infinitum said:
I wonder if the fire melee difference is due to combustion only being on tankers.
I'd had the thought but was waiting for someone more knowledgeable to comment.
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Running DFB and Posi 1 on my newly created WP/KM Tanker last night and already it sucks to repeatedly have the third attack's wind up be so long that foes with 40% health when I initiated the attack are dead before the attack lands. Radiation Melee has a slow pace but at least its attacks land like a hammer dropped from space. By comparison, with KM it's a long wait for love tap.
At level 19 now. Will see how I feel once I get him to his 30s.
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6 hours ago, tidge said:
The Brutes v. Tanks argument is a corner case that relies primarily (my PoV) on very specific build/slotting choice
If we go by this (higher is worse)...
...the specific builds are anything other than Electric Melee, Titan Weapon, Dual Blades, Psionic Melee, Staff Fighting, and Broadsword--that works out to be 16 of 22 powersets. I would usually expect an edge case to be a tiny fraction of the possibility space, not 72.7% of it. A similar usage of the word "edge" puts the majority of the US population in the edge states east of the Mississippi.
Edit: It was an actual edge case which got Brutes nerfed in the first place. FWIW, I think Tankers should be left alone at this point. Just give teams a reason to have Brutes along.
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43 minutes ago, skoryy said:
Condider that the tanker advantage at the high end game could be their reward for being less fun leveling and exemping than the brute.
Then Defenders should be seriously boosted.
I have played and exemplared plenty of Tankers. They were plenty fun.
43 minutes ago, skoryy said:An SG mate's Dark/Dark tank had me considering one of my own until I realized what few attacks he'd have for the first half of his leveling journey. So I made him a Dark/Dark brute instead. Much more fun.
I do believe the latest big patch has suitable altered the pace of power acquisition for everyone.
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10 minutes ago, Maelwys said:
MO Brutes are indeed fine when compared to other melee ATs before a tricked out IO build is taken into consideration; particularly when soloing.
If performance while soloing were the yardstick of comparison, Brutes did not need any nerfs as Scrappers were just fine while soloing.
11 minutes ago, Maelwys said:But they bring very little to teams - Tankers have better AoE damage and sustainability (even if both are at the res caps, Tanks still have a bigger HP + Absorb pool); Stalkers and Scrappers have better Single Target and Spike damage.
And then there is this. There is no reason to have a Brute along--the Tanker is tougher, taunts just for being there, and does more AoE damage and the Scrapper as you note deals much better burst.
It is worrisome that in the lead up to the most recent patch, the Developers That Be apparently mentally lump Brutes in as some sort of faux-Tanker, as that was the role assigned to Brutes before the system was scrapped. Brutes do not survive so well. And when the difficulty setting starts getting turned up, it becomes painfully obvious.
16 minutes ago, Maelwys said:The Scrapper and Stalker ATOs increase the peak damage output of those ATs considerably, and the same is true for the the Tanker ATOs in terms of survivability... but Brute ATOs are not in the same ballpark performance-wise. They could honestly do with a tweak to get them into the same ballpark.
This is something noted by a lot of people and has been noted for a long time. But there is NOTHING to suggest it is even under consideration.
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48 minutes ago, Wavicle said:
I’m sorry but the idea that BRUTES, the number one most popular AT in the game....
You have something to back up that claim? Or are you relying on statistics from long ago, say like claiming GM is the number one car seller in the world because they sold more cars than anyone else in 1972?
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1 hour ago, Maelwys said:
Personally I'd still like to see one of the Brute ATOs altered to grant an AoE teamwide damage buff based on their current Fury level.
That way bringing a Brute along would actually benefit the rest of the team a little bit more than bringing a Scrapper/Stalker; and it'd serve a slightly different role to a tanker.So the Brute would get nothing from slotting the ATO?
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1 hour ago, Wavicle said:
People who want to solo maps made for teams. It SHOULD be a slog. For EVERY AT.
I do not recall making a comment on ease or difficulty, just which AT is better.
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4 hours ago, Wavicle said:
Who even cares who is the best at farming trash mobs with no bosses?
All those people who choose to farm, and they are dealing with the bosses which are there.
But what is being addressed here is the contention that Brutes are fine because of the claim they are top farmers (which they aren't any longer).
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After a hiatus, I am back to try a couple of character ideas I had.
First up is the replacement for my go at a Stj/Inv Brute. Loved the character concept and costume but not so much the end result. So I adapated the costume for his EnM/Inv replacement, Ultracharge:
Having an enjoyable Fire/Bio Sentinel, I wanted to try another and came up with a Storm/Ninjitsu character named Zephra:
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54 minutes ago, Warboss said:
Bio/KinMelee or SR/KinMelee, haven't see many (if any of those around).
Because with Kin Melee you are waving your hands around in the air like you just don't care...
...just don't care that any other AT, including Defenders, will have finished off the target before your hit lands.
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17 minutes ago, kito said:
So to say you need a tank might be a bit hyperbolic
UKase did not say you need a tank to farm, he said that Tankers were better farmers:
5 hours ago, Ukase said:So, according to the farm guides, the tanker is the best farmer, due to the changes in AE that happened...page 5, I think.
If you want to farm on a Defenderwws, it will be slow and painful, but you can do it. But Brutes being the best farmers is an absurd thing to maintain, especially in light of Trapdoor results showing Tankers well outperforming Brutes for clears. Yes, a Brute can farm. A Tanker does it better regardless of your memories of sometime long, long ago. You will (a) survive better as a Tanker and (b) hit more targets with your AoEs than a Brute can.
The ONLY way a Brute will pull ahead is if you are farming solo bosses, which I am pretty sure is not what people have in mind when speaking of farming.
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Bio/Rad
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18 minutes ago, Sovera said:
Hmm, well, I play both extensively. Brutes do more damage, but the Tanker gets two pbAoEs.
When anything involving cross-AT testing across various scenarios supports that claim, call me.
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53 minutes ago, Sovera said:
I know you said you particularly wanted to be a Brute but a Stone/Fire Melee Tanker is an AoE machine (it gets two PbAoEs unlike the Brute version that only has one) that cruises through the game barely touching inspirations starting at level 13 with minimal investment.
I am truly wishing I had a dollar for all the times of late where people in the Brute forum are told, for purposes of dealing damage, go play a Tanker.
About the ONLY reason to play a Brute, it seems, is you want to play Super Strength with Energy Aura as that combo is uniquely open to Brutes.
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1 hour ago, Thraxen said:
Just tried in game. Even unstoppable doesn’t have graphics.
Dull Pain has a cloud like effect, even when set to No Effect.
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4 minutes ago, Thraxen said:
Just tried in game. Even unstoppable doesn’t have graphics.
I ran put together the custom colorizations for an Invulenrablity character I made last night and they were definitely showing throw despite being set for no effects.
Will check again once I get back.
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13 minutes ago, Thraxen said:
Inv can be made to be non existent if that is the preferred word needed.
Mostly non-existent. Even in its no effects mode a few leak through.
9 minutes ago, Thraxen said:I build with invincibility set to 1. Anything else is a bonus or makes up for not great ddr.
Invincibility set to 1, Hasten not toggled on unless it is perma, Fury set at 80.
Also I prefer to post builds where the spread between endurance consumption and recovery is at least 2/sec (unless there are endurance recover powers involved).
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7 hours ago, Thraxen said:
Adaptations can’t be minimized.
"Minimized" is not synonymous with "non-existent".
I will grant Genetic Contamination is going to be rather present on your screen but that is true of all the damage auras.
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6 hours ago, Thraxen said:
If it weren’t for the unavoidable graphics those two add maybe. I think inv is correct.
Bio has a minimum gfx setting with only one power retaining it's full effect (and can be played as a sort of transformation thing). The lesser effects can be mostly hidden via costume color choices and are no more obtrusive than Invulnerability's effects.
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6 minutes ago, KITANYA said:
Is it Energy Cloak you mean?
Can you not customize it so it looks better?
Given the person you are responding to last visited the forums over 3 years ago, I would not hold out much hope for a response.
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On 3/7/2024 at 8:36 PM, Jokerace said:
I would appreciate any feed back in ways you think I could make it better or went wrong in my thinking when building it.
I try not to change other people's power choices too far from what they have selected because they presumably know what powers they want, but in this case I did do a bit of alteration. I also moved away from my earlier path of looking towards buffing your resistances...in fact, went completely opposite by designing a build meant to run in Offensive stance:
SpoilerG/xhQCwK7IbjC4emWlXfnAX8U0lDtQhI116rNlUWVW9QkPivdS8TI6GYHGnzA3ryhOJ0OpVvcrc8tGUASl/J+6raO60Gf02zd4/B3rELlPR8JkJTAkVduv+0zNlTOkbGZ9ddhEVY3JU/f6ilzHboLk1F0pqluy71odW9T5tZ1YTDEUdwCOGwMVLtoHN82jznQFQkdiw9s6LOrxTi3f1E7xSK1PEyExDXE3B8GIX7rasdBlghraEAhKLAPMT4ro4jzrP1NhsPNkhnUXgWkLWXUR/NSXZw++AEjpTWUjAnW0tgebblgsX+joI3gmK3ODwqoUG33VxxznfEoD5HOT+tF3K7lJa8mV2QhF/NyRcdUaDAar9FnywjR3d00zWDOzjawLZXTF2zLL4xbLCOJzBdypEexSPgvyG+/aPPAC1kHsHvdkrDuvIc1r6d902EMxmUOauJ2WdgqEmxc+cCiuvjeSA4/rEl5uZYb0f3VjaqIruAqVvXa9+7iyPYCYfFd20xjMy6txNhZn7XDL7IBGDuf0UYR6T3pTyAUcJd4d+wFj8rE52K7BFustf9FLPXEvy+LgZCbbY8tJ3tyD1s+tTGC2DuMAKjOsVCj//BqvSOuu+O5Fv5H/M2OUx7N2N1Ogx9t26bkI8dWYbyaNVNDURMc/baLNuxJNCUveKSKMYnJjGElNUI78gc+yn6z9s838W9LrUz84SzT1zrXAPDvxUdOKcLfMeRDwCEC2ua1XBQp7wk2XkbBdldBY+1fKI9qXAvH/vHMOK/MCTr+kFaENg1cVHoxPgqwAGeLv7f41FYxW6KEglfKZQicoB7Syo8VaYOJWljP955nGxU8nzFnZWtnNCO4LNOfAzEOqBstamT4SsDDQsmnDuLN2HkhsXMz9u8g3c7e/cka+WHQ34okRvs6Jqzzhick6YxGlLW3dJbh1AMrH90eT1t1IgG5yakzHtPwfDr5DlCsvYgOBs15Qgz6LV1XmL8cqlm17sxYIXG0ETv94qNJv+iiIEmi+ZIZ3d68iI4mcX/F0HGqqp1C/O0eCwvRWWjaJnI8R3Zo74gyUSPUpo8Tj2R36h89CKTRCs8c/1vWcEz6AeZRog8mufbHiD9bJayHNnG3ZLAuV1duNUtU2XLVD5dwkdyHp84YnmPXwjK1j2PPpK4nBdJG/zuoMRMXAos1HNwCH3O6nnGlJEOj57h2oToQYKbEuQ/czqG7CtfTTVAS7VKS103UR1DvskW7GUaedwvbZpvVstBjQbW/XS8o1SABTDZZ8VVfhRcEhDwZFC7zVR/EgnSzwwaz/1xltmITXdGqLLfJvywYzeFMtGAjhYU006ZrwZYAGMgmImFD9CmDNGDPf8SNDFeheob5aWBR2vSzmI3Vyt5DdMYyenq66zBTu6tUsjtUncdKFVRXjxynatTkl+QlkQ04SXWq+Ps9P83WXN8yyoBTwsw/fYmNtPhJVlO/jnK5X3A176tWhgsSyUGZKqfzxUXj1PsVqwRxemRnZ2HxJYx01mOltihkTbZcbz+gN9WFt1aRzYtJ+Gyz7fuUONfW6TODV2c3MOlPZadVV01WlYD7H/X8bRQBOpiZUT3jDWLhABAduQXNCNV5IcV3jUj/715JgNAaxQCMBzczIjCx8Rv4TZvJ5XXN9xwTw/YEuDqRMHwAh0cxXvWpHEs99OKQ884b3XKVTiav1xqyeQ9/gJqz0L3M1gAOvICz0IP0Fd+OlRNemAbH9Sfmgr/WvwXMTrjH3yHwxM8no7TXTWSsMfxlZVUiwlGdFp0mV+4eb8lb3qc47tL24e5Tt+ucey4oBm1Lmz9VmTJZ+uQiWXnsbPBeC5vkmpEMuuEp0Ns5z5fcO2weWVnbV07nLNVMyP6h9T8fS8pMWXVtwziwG5Z21kpYmpG8iPiM5HvwpvQjBAz99kxIdrEYe4lmHcs63IdLoeQpgMWSyVTPrvbweO+UPRWWH/3kclEy0ThLHPZFpt3XZxRQAzjDam5DxenUt4pGbn8PWAseD1V3xx589TguemEqs1Lh7dNYdMaJYFFOd8vXD/kTmlkP39Jeb27dP6pN5ormMla2V4mBT0Xrna/omjsxLhyWMFWBfUfSz0V4qcc4WYz+7u/TH56VZzTghmFDOEV2fMu4lwUe95O/HbyokN2jjI+xtcPtDIZ+MGtUDTLPF8AAB5x0G3T9Aoxot27ujdVZso49Ooj5A6NFjs1JNKlaZ2moR7WECN9yT4=
A couple of things:
- There is a base 2.2 end/s gap between endurance expenditure and generation. I do not believe Mid's takes into account Performance Shifter procs, so in reality it build is a bit better off. On top of that you have DNA Siphon and Genetic Contamination. Dark Consumption's only purpose would be as a slow recharging AoE, so I dumped it.
- Melee Defense is 42.6%. At various points it pushed to 45%+ and E/N/F/C were over 50% but then I got distracted by the bright shiny of...
- I chose the Darkness Mastery Epic pool for you because Tar Patch was just too good not to get--22.5% resistance debuff...while you are in Offensive stance...with the potential of having used Soul Drain!!! Given the Ablative Shield and ability to pump regen (and recovery) and Siphon Life all on top of Dark Melee's power debuffing To-Hit, I figured not completely topping off S/L Resistance (you do have scaling resistance) and Melee defense was livable.
- At one point Soul Drain was sitting at 40s recharge instead of the 47s or so it is at now. If it is critical for it to be perma-available you can probably dance things around to get there.
Edit: Most people look at Bio and think they should be dancing between stances. I'm lazy and approach Bio from the perspective of mostly staying in one stance and departing from it only as absolutely necessary. All of this to say, you can toggle to Efficient or Defensive stance if needed but the goal is not to do so.
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I would change the slotting on Touch of Fear from Scirocco's Dervish to Erradiction for more E/N defense. I would probably look into splitting Superior Avalanche 3/3 between two powers for the extra Fire/Cold resist and doing the same with Gauntleted Fist for the Energy/Negative resist. I would suggest full slotting Environmental Modification with a Defense set and move the Shield Wall IO to Weave.
But running late for a long day of work, so no real chance to build something right now.
Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?
in Brute
Posted · Edited by Erratic1
I think the issue was your claim that in only edge cases were Tankers outperforming Brutes--something I pointed out was true only be stretching the definition of edge past majority of cases.
A team is just plain better off bringing a Tanker over a Brute for most scenarios where you have a team. The Tanker is more likely to live and will do more in terms of speeding how quickly the group gets through the missions/TF.