[Is there really a massive proc nerf just around the corner?]

Oh gee, the usual suspects indirectly talking about ATs they admit they don't play and what is right and proper for them. 🙄

 

If there were any urgency to nerf procs the nerf bat would have swung by now. At this point the idea of a proc nerf is about as credible as Anastasia surviving the murder of the Russian royal family. I still have no idea what is thought to be gained by radically shifting the functioning of tons of players that would drive this supposed cataclysmic shift in the upper tiers of the game.

 

So the perpetual fear of Tanker players, that the, "Bad Old Days" will return is at best a fever dream of overanxious minds.

[Martial Arts Scrapper: Settling on a secondary]

3 hours ago, One IV All said:

 

This does sound fun, and like a boss killer haha. That was my question, if I'd be able to fit in TWO attacks in the span of EC's +crit window.

 

You will (possibly) get one crit by attacking from stealth. That sets up the 2s window of boosted crit chance. Getting two attacks in that time seems dubious to me given the cast/animation times involved. Testing it on the Test Server is probably worthwhile.

[Martial Arts Scrapper: Settling on a secondary]

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

So if you slap the scrapper ATO2 in that attack, and it activates, you now have a 83% chance to crit for your next MA attack. If you can fit another attack in that window...lol. You can bump that up to 86% with the ATO1 somewhere. Enjoy!

 

So the Ninjitsu opening would be with Eagle Claw from stealth, enjoying a 65% base chance (can be increased) to crit, then follow up with a second attack which enjoys a boosted chance to crit. 

 

Not quite the joy of openning with AoE crit, but not shabby.

[Rad/SS]

8 minutes ago, Ashford said:

Eh, with SS rad would be clunky. It works best with shield, invuln, but my personal best in slot for SS would be electric as it can be easily capped with a tanker and SS is very endurance hungry.

 

 

Endurance  hungry is an argument in favor of Rad Armor, not against it. Moreover, there Rad has a +Rchg power, another thing which benefits SS.

[Fighting Synergy, in-game statistics]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:45 PM, Jacke said:

 

I've got a build for a Invulnerability / Super Strength Tanker I'm still levelling.  Doesn't need Tough, so I went with Boxing + Kick + Weave + Cross Punch from the Fighting Pool.  Cross Punch with both buffs from Boxing and Kick in the build (just the base slots on them) on a Tanker is a brutal AoE attack.  On a Controller with Containment, whoa.  😼

 

Given Super Strength is shorted on AoE damage, taking Cross Punch is well advised, regardless of AT. Heck, I took Cross Punch on my Electric/Radiation Melee Tanker over Proton Sweep.

 

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

2 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Is herding even a thing anymore? Serious question.  Not intending to belittle your point. 

 

I think it is relatively rare--certain maps and situations.

 

Been doing it in solo play on my latest Tanker because at a certain point it is faster to merge groups of foes and be hitting everyone with the occasional AOE than mostly relying on single target attacks on separate spawns (driven by damage per endurance considerations). He's not the first Tanker I've taken that approach on.

 

I'm sure there is a sweet spot for difficulty setting and herding, but mostly playing it by ear as opposed to methodically figure out what it is.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

Just now, ScarySai said:

 

They were indeed nerfed.

 

But the reasoning was certainly not valid.

 

Or at least dubiously suspicious given the need to protect Blaster/Scrapper team viability due to what has been stated to be edge cases has not translated to a similar need to protect Brutes, especially given hard mode content being introduced where for damage Blasters, Scrappers, and Stalkers are better choices, and you'd NEVER want a Brute taking for you.

 

But that last point will be pooh-poohed as a minor portion of the game WHILE IT WAS ALSO THE CASE that Brutes outperforming required sufficient buffing as to also not the majority of situations.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

3 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

correction: it only makes a difference if you have your difficulty at x3 or higher. 

 

Additional correction: In the hypothetical that you ignore actual gameplay where lower Armor values makes herding a greater risk for certain ATs and the fact that dumpster diving has long history in game (as does farming).

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

1 hour ago, laudwic said:

 

The even shorter version:

 

Tanker if you predominately team

Brute if you predominately solo.

 

Correction: Brutes if you solo...only solo targets and not groups (majority of content).

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Buffing Tankers was not a swing of the nerf bat at Brutes.

 

I did not say or suggest it was. The discussion at that point was about how Brute damage caps were nerfed in regards to Blasters/Scrapers.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

8 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

If anything it's more likely to have tankers nerfed slightly to help Brutes fit better and bring the tanker edge cases down. 

 

I would genuinely like to see the Brute ATO changed to fit the AT better and Fury made to be 100% of capacity. 

 

I think I would prefer at this point something off the Damage/Survivability axis. I doubt any change to damage or survivability has much room to thread the needle of player satisfaction and moreover, playing around with another AT is how this ball of wax got rolling in the first place. Change brutes in a way that does not directly change their damage/survivability compared to Scrappers/Stalkers/Tankers.

 

Tie it to one-tenth their Fury value as a percent chance for some effect (or amplification of an effect of the attack) when dealing single-target damage. But what? I have no idea (because its time to be unconscious).

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

3 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Plenty is a stretch - it's mainly edge cases loaded with procs.

 

Its not as bad as it's being portrayed, but it is an issue. 

 

Is that edge bigger than the alignment of planets and stars required for "certain Brute combinations" to outdo  Blasters and Scrappers?

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

29 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

It was proven that certain brute combos were out damaging scrappers and blasters even with none of the risks those two faced. 

 

That's why Brutes were nerfed. 

 

And now that we have plenty of Tanker combos out damaging Brutes while also being tougher...well, clearly that is only right and proper.

[Why is Kinetic Melee still bad?]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I think I really need to make a scrapper to make a good call on it as I really don't play stalkers or brutes very often.

I guess I need to figure out a character conception for a kinetic scrapper.

My first go at KM was a KM/Shield scraper back on live. I kept hoping things would improve all the way to level 50.

 

It's why I have only attempted KM twice since (a Brute on Homecoming stuck on his low 40s and my current Tanker).

[Why is Kinetic Melee still bad?]

Have not had a lot of time to play, so character is only at 27. Playing solo is mostly fine, but there is a bit of humor from pre-activating an attack then using [F] to run up to a target so in theory you arrive and make the attack--he runs up, starts waving his hands about, and not infrequently gets hit before he deals damage. To be fair, I could beat mobs to the (literal) punch by using either of the T1 or T2 attacks, but I love the thought of the bad guys confronted with a hero taking so long to make an attack they just pull out their weapons and whack the hero.

 

In groups I am more focused on AoE attacks to try to keep foes focused on me (need to slot a KB->KD converter in Repelling Torrent), so slow solo attacks are less of a concern.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Soooooo…….  Glad you like Brutes

 

This is the “entire Brute nerf” in one sock

 

The perspective from a former Brute ( now mostly Blaster/some Corr) player;   “Some whiny Scrapper players showed formulas that indicated on edge cases with certain powersets Brutes could do more damage than Scrappers.  The Devs rewrote Fury so it was easy to get and impossible to peg the bar to the top”

 

Brutes used to have to use tricks to build and MAINTAIN Fury.  Constantly fighting and agroing mobs.  It was glorious. Now….yawn. 
 

To add insult to injury now Tanks out damage Brutes.  Tanks and Scrappers both got great ATOs and one of the Brute ATOs is only useful if you are do bad a player you keep crayons next to your game so you have something to eat. 

 

Waiting for Snarky to break out in song...

 

Now and then I think of all the times Brutes got screwed over,

But had us believing it was always something we had done.

 

And I don't wanna live that way,

Trying to reach maximum fury.

I just had to let it go, 

And you won't catch me hung up on some AT that I used to know.

 

 

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

Tanker's get the arc/radius boost, which definitely makes them more valuable versus groups of foes (and by extension, more attractive to most teams) but there are plenty of cases where Brutes have the damage output edge. Such as Levelling up, Soloing; and AV/GM fights.

 

*Thinks about his Bio/Rad Melee Tanker who lives in Offensive stance and how much mileage he gets out of the extra survivability while using two damage aura on top of the Offensive stance* 

 

And its not like extra survivability cannot be turned into extra xp by upping the difficulty setting. As I noted upthread, I got through a full story arc and halfway through the next without realizing on my latest Tanker I had left it set higher from a TF I had run the night before. The benefit is there until levelling is done whereas the realm where Fury is putting you way out of ahead of other melees is quickly run through: Buy two hour long xp boosts, do DFB, Posi 1, and Posi 2 and now you are level 24. 

 

I can assure you, not a single one of my Brute tosses out the following numbers at the same level as the scrapper I was playing was doing so:

 

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

2 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

Just reported this incident to the Mod. I believe you are being antagonistic and it needs to end.

You dropped in to claim the person you accused of cherry-picking, then downvoted, then made a production about notifying the mods about is being antagonistic?

 

I asked a straightforward question of you and got accusations of in incitement. 

 

Remind me who is being antagonistic here.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

1 minute ago, Gobbledigook said:

Actually they have. Yet again you are cherry picking to incite argument. Have fun lol.

 

If they had, you'd have quoted them.

 

Bye-bye!

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

I don't rest. It's victory or death. And death is rare. lol. 

 

My only problem with fury is how you can't hit and hold 100%.  That's a problem honestly.  Generating it is a non issue though. 

 

I look at 100 Fury like I look at 150mph on my car's speedometer--ain't never gonna happen.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

27 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

I think you are unnecessarily carrying this to the extreme there - that just is not nor ever will be the case.  I am currently leveling 2 brutes that I have a tanker counterpart. That I am having more fun on the brute - because they do more in your face damage up front and there's also an excitement from playing on the edge of victory or defeat and biting off more than you can chew occasionally - and still winning.  I like the brute better in those cases. 

I was running my latest Tanker though the Nance/Adair clone arc and at one point thought, "I'm not moving that much more slowly than on a brute." 

 

Then I wondered why oranges kept showing up and remembered the night before someone on the Posi 1 I was leading had asked for +1 and I had forgot to set myself back to 0. Pretty sure I would have noticed sooner on a Brute.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

9 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Then you should try it again. Thunderstrike was recently buffed such that the set is better than it used to be.

 

I'll dust off my Elec/Stone Brute and check it out.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

9 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

It's good on all 4 actually, I think it's best on the stalker - just IMO though. 

 

I've done it multiple times...just not loving it though I want to.

 

But I'm crazy. I'm currently play up a KM Tanker.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Brute Energy Punch, bone Smasher, total focus, and energy transfer is a bad day for most groups.  I never use Barrage on anything unless I have a free spot or have to. 

 

I the brute aoe is still good enough and stronger than a tanker aoe and will kill the trash just not as many as the tanker will at one time.

 

So when the Tanker ignores the first group, who will follow him, and leads them to the second group, confident in shrugging off a group's worth of attacks, and AoEs them down, the Brute is working the groups separately and taking longer to do it?

 

Real data point here: Fury decays. If you have to rest as a Brute, you are doing inferior damage for need to rebuild Fury. You are now hitting fewer targets for less damage. If Tankers had to build up the size of their AoEs....

 

...hmm....

 

You know...area tied to Fury...

 

Nah, the wailing from the Tanker subforum would be too painful.

[Were Brutes that Badly Nerfed?]

11 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Electric Melee is another. 

 

In fact, Stalker is the only AT I have ever heard found Electric Melee good.