[Extract Character Models for 3D printing?]

On 9/8/2021 at 3:08 PM, ParagonMan said:

Is there a known best way to extract the 3d model information for a character? 
I have a 3d printer and would love to have some physical copies of my favorite toons.

 

I understand the desire to have physical copies of your character. But the actual 3d models used in the game are very low rez, triangulated meshes. 

Would you actually want that printed, vs a more realistic treatment of the characters?

[What is the ideology of the Council?]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Ok well I guess my original question has to be altered from “How can you try to rule the world without being fascist” to “How can you try to rule the world without being like fascists”. The former question has been thoroughly discredited, but I still say you can’t rule and subjugate others and whatnot without at least having some major commonalities with fascism.

 

But are we talking real world or superhero comic fantasy? If it's the latter, you're only limited by your imagination. You could take over the world by offering a better world. You could subjugate people through some way that doesn't involve violent force. A super sexy race of aliens come to Earth. They are so damn sexy that people just do what they want. etc. Not saying any of these possibilities necessarily make for good storytelling btw.

[What is the ideology of the Council?]

Fascism I think is best understood as a kind of hyper-nationalism centered around a mythological, idealized,  and/or nostalgic view of a certain group. Typically an ethnic group although I think that in certain cases a religious grouping would work as well (eg. the religious right in the USA exhibits fascist tendencies). The outward traits--antidemocratic sentiment, forceful suppression of the opposition, etc.) extend out from that ideological center. 

 

It kind of breaks down when you start talking about aliens. If the council are footsoldiers for the Nictus, then I wouldn't label them fascists.

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

After watching your video, I went back and tried again. This time shooting enemies point blank in the face with the insta-snipe. And it was nothing like the weird results you're getting. 

I can see the projectile come out, it hits the target and then they get damaged. Consistently. 

 

Yeah I agree that that there is a bug present in your footage. I don't know why it is so apparent on your character and not present on mine. Does it happen on all your characters with moonbeam? I'm sorry I browbeat you about the power activation issue. What I pictured in my head based on your description was a lot less severe than what you actually showed in that footage. My bad.

 

 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

You're on a stalker. See the hide power there? I'll post a vid shortly.

It's a scrapper. Look at the ATOs in the beginning of the video. I think you must be looking at the shinobi-iri toggle.

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Somebody official already has weighed in on it. The Homecoming developers in the patch notes in August 2019. BillyMailman posted a link to those patch notes, just a few posts up, showing that the devs already tried to fix this at least once. I'd say that's a pretty good indication that it's a bug.

 

I'm just gonna ride off on my High Horse now.

 

 

Wooooooooooo!  Riding my high horse!!!

Well you certainly love to assume things. 

 

I did another test with a scrapper, moonbeam slotted like Bill's. I'm still not seeing this issue. If anything, the insta-snipe looks a tiny bit delayed at times:

 

 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

3 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Uhm, @battlewraith?

 

A "substantial commitment of development time to address somebody's gripe with their snipe animation, which is probably occurring while they're soloing a task force on a scrapper."

 

What, and I cannot stress this enough, the flaming pigeonshit does what @Bill Z Bubba is *doing* when he notices a bug have anything to do with anything?

 

It's either a legit bug or a poor design, and I've noticed similar things with Psi Blast while I'm masochistically leveling a Psi/FF corruptor through TFC. Projectile speeds are all wonky, which throws off damage hitting, which affects survivability (even on a scrapper). 

 

Please roll up your e-peen, read the room, and bow out of this one gracefully because Bill is not someone who brings up things like this just to be an asshole. 

 

EDIT: "bow," not "now"

 

Reread the thread from the beginning. I didn't come in here talking crap or trying to gaslight people or whatever morons are accusing me of in this thread. I asked him what the problem was, to which he replied that it was dumb and ugly. Sorry, that's a nonjustification to me and I explained why. Now if people are actually having with their animations in ways that impacts performance then yes, obviously that needs to be addressed. 

 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

 

4 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Reporting the events as they honestly appear to me is not "riding your high horse." It's simply reporting the events as they appear to me.

Also, you have no idea whatsoever how much effort I've put into becoming informed about PvP in this game or not, whether I like PvP or not, and what my bias' are. You're simply making assumptions about my motivations.

 

 

I think those assumptions were pretty reasonable since you came into the thread accusing me of abusing exploits and "shading the truth". I honestly don't care what your motivations are. I gave you a list of powers that don't fit with how you assume things should work in this game. Get somebody official to weigh in on it. If the current devs feel that using these powers in an attack chain is an exploit, that's one thing. If you they don't, or you won't bother to ask, then you're just blowing smoke. Put up or shut up. 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

This is a pretty embarrassingly bad look to a random passerby, battlewraith.

 

I'm sorry random passerby, but I think it speaks more to a lack of shared common experience. 

 

When I read about this bug, I was initially surprised because I never noticed it myself. I was actually intrigued because, if this is true it would be a very small plus in moonbeam's favor.

 

Bill is more or less correct about the state of pvp. The majority of builds do not work. A lot of ATs see very little if any use. If it isn't well suited to pvp, you don't use it. Now picture if PVE were like that. You needed the most optimal of builds in order to even participate. Now picture some sort of tier of build that maybe can function at a sort of ok level. But then some player wants something changed to the detriment of a power because THEY think it's dumb or ugly. That superficial of a reason is going to affect your gameplay. 

 

I did test this power on an unenhanced character. I did not see any issue with it. If Bill coughs up his preferred slotting, I will slot mine and test it again. I don't think it's an issue with the power itself. My purpose here is not to discourage a bug report. I'm making the case that instant cast damage might have value that outweighs someone's aggravation for how the in-combat version of the power looks.

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

58 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

OR... you could simply stop abusing exploits in PvP.

 

 

Yes, using and relying on a power which is obviously bugged, not reporting it (and then coming the forum and... shall we say... shading the truth a bit in order to discourage people from reporting it as a bug), is abusing an exploit.

 

Except these are not exploits or bugs. This is simply how these powers work and have worked for years, both in pvp and pve. And you are stumbling on to the subject now. Here is a breakdown that is from the stickied pvp resources section that lists some commonly used powers (moonbeam isn't even on the list):

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18cNntfcyoaC9DUVS9B-4XYS6ogDRtT44H2o4GGTf4mM/edit#gid=0

 

Cast time, projectile speed, root time all factor in to why a power is preferable in a pvp context. Fractions of a second in timing matter when chasing someone down who is moving fast, about to phase, etc. The use of these powers still entails animation time before another power can be cast, rooting, etc. But by all means, ride your high horse to the nearest dev and ask them if the use of these powers is an exploit. That would at least involve some effort to actually become informed rather than slandering someone else's motives purely out of your own ignorance and bias.

 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Broken games become less broken when broken code is corrected. PvPers whining about broken powers being corrected are not a concern of mine. As you say, wanna PvP? Don't use builds not suited for this game's PvP.

The bug that needs fixing has been logged in the bugs forum as requested by the devs. The bug is repeatable and constant in builds people actually use. Are we done now?

 

OR...you could simply stop using moonbeam if you think it's dumb and ugly. The only one whining here is you. You want the utility of a power affected because you don't like how it looks and you've got zero empathy for other players may be affected. 

 

That aside, are we done now? No. You're filing a bug report but you're ignoring the fact that this bug doesn't occur on my unenhanced character. What does that tell you? To me it suggests that the power is not bugged in general. It may be a general effect of certain enhancements or how certain enhancements interact with that particular snipe. 

 

"The bug is repeatable and constant in builds people actually use."

 

Which involves what slotting of moonbeam? 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Why is this relevant?

Because I think it's relevant to look at his complaint in light of the big picture. He initially complained that he wanted this power fixed because it was "ugly and dumb". I guess he realized his personal preferences weren't gonna cut it so he pivoted to it being broken (which it isn't). The point is that the question of whether of not something is broken is often largely subjective. This was initially a team game with ATs that were intended to complement each other. The fact that individuals can solo content that was intended for teams is a break with that design philosophy. This break has ramifications for overall game balance but he obviously is fine with that because it suits his interests.

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Ummm, no. This happens while solo or teamed, in radio missions or TFs. It happens 100% of the time with insta-snipe. No need to try to downplay the actual broken code by blaming it on me "doing things I'm not supposed to be doing" while trying to get the fix stopped because you enjoy utilizing broken powers for undue advantages.

 

I tested insta-snipe. After reading your message, I logged on and tested it again. Same result. It works the same as the snipe--the projectile is cast, it hits the target, and then the damage occurs. Again, maybe the issue is something that happens due to an interaction with procs, ATOs, or something. When I'm sniping things on my unenhanced scrapper, I'm not experiencing this issue at all.

 

I didn't mean to imply you only experienced this on TFs. I'm just pointing out how you're complaining about what you see as a broken power in what is a generally broken game--something that you enjoy because you can legitimately do broken things like soloing content meant for teams. 

 

I don't enjoy utilizing broken powers for undue advantages. In pve, my only concern about moonbeam would be getting it to fire off before the rest of the team nukes everything into oblivion. In pvp, melee in general and scrappers in particular are subpar in group encounters. The soul pool is generally the preferred set to take for some ranged damage. If what you're saying about moonbeam is correct, then scrappers can get one ranged instant-damage power that is on a par with what other ATs can have in their primaries or secondaries.  Scrappers and stalkers are still not going to be that competitive but maybe viable in a more casual setting. Your "fix" would make all melee builds based on this pool marginally worse. And what would be gained? Bill would have the satisfaction of seeing the orange numbers match the blob of smoke hitting the target.

 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

If it's broken, it needs fixing. It's broken. Any other powers in the game broken in this way should also, of course, be corrected.

 

Edit: And it seems I should add that gaining advantages from broken code tend to be frowned upon in general.

 

Well, first of all I dusted off one of my scrappers with moonbeam and I'm not seeing this issue. The projectile is firing, it's hitting the target, and then damage numbers are appearing. I don't really see any difference between instant cast and regular snipe either. Now the scrapper I used was largely stripped of enhancements--there were only a couple of damage SOs in there. Perhaps the issue you're having relates to procs firing off?

 

Secondly, it's not broken. Mismatched animation or not, the power works just fine. Your complaint is an aesthetic one. The current Devs can do whatever they like with the game, but if they're going to worry about this being broken AND be at all systematic in their approach, they would need to address not only the powers that hit early but that ones that are delayed as well. A substantial commitment of development time to address somebody's gripe with their snipe animation, which is probably occurring while they're soloing a task force on a scrapper. I personally frown upon such irony in general.

 

 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

It's a problem because it's ugly and dumb. And, no, powers have specific timings that can be altered. See below where Animation Time before Effect is lower than the Animation Time. Edit: Even that doesn't explain it though as the critter takes damage immediately.

 

 

Somebody's notion of ugly and dumb is a pretty subjective criteria upon which to prioritize changing something. And when I asked about it being a general problem, I was alluding to the fact that there are other powers with similar timing issues. You're asking the developer's to specifically address moonbeam because it irritates you--rather than a general request that damage effects of powers more closely match the animation timing of said powers.

 

As long as the power is consistent, I would want them to leave it alone. Functionally it either doesn't matter when the damage hits or the instant damage is a bonus. If I'm trying to spike a target with the maximum amount of damage in the smallest window of time, powers that have wack timing like this may be viable in an attack chain when the expected timing would be undesirable. For example, a long-cast but instant damage power could be used as the last attack in a chain because, at that point, the target is either dead or was able to get away. Waiting for the animation at that point, after the damage, isn't a big deal. On the other hand, if the damage registered with the timing of the animation then that power might be a much less desirable option. 

[Scrapper Moonbeam - Please Fix Hit Timing]

Why is this a problem? And if it is a problem, wouldn't it be a general problem with how powers activate ingame rather than moonbeam specifically?

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event]

Thanks! 

There is no conversion process. The people getting prints would give me screenshots of their characters, or whatever reference they want to use (fanart, etc.), and I would sculpt it in ZBrush then convert the file to STL and print it.

[Hot Take: DIY!]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

The skin off my back is a guy giving a toddler a car to drive and then me being the pedestrian that toddler crushes like a rotten peach on the sidewalk, because the toddler asked if he could drive. 

 

Both the toddler (the new player, asking for it whether they know they're not capable of driving or not) and the enabler (you, not caring), are the issue. 

 

 

So you're saying that, in the course of playing the game, you are being damaged somehow by inexperienced players using builds they got from other players? And that this is somehow....causing teams to go awry?

 

How are you quantifying this? If someone on your team sucks do you confront them--"Hey mister did you build that? Or did SOMEONE ELSE make if for you?!?"

 

I suspect that this discussion is simply a proclamation of how you feel things should be but I'd love to hear about some actual confrontations.

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event (Cancelled)]

This is what that sculpt I posted above actually looked like printed:

 

The ones for the captains will be slightly less detailed, probably neck or shoulders up instead of waist up.

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event]

Also going to throw this in here incase people don't follow the link. The captains/farmers of the teams will get a custom 3d printed bust of their character as a reward for participating, win or lose. It would be similar to this Juri Han (from the Streetfighter games) print--most like likely with a slightly more elaborate base and neck or shoulders up, rather than waist up:

 

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event (Cancelled)]

So what type of farmer you use is a tactical choice for the match. You may choose to use a farming build that is not quite as good as spines/fire but that has better utility as a pvp build in matches. Any of the farmers that fight in matches will have to be using a second or third build slot anyway in order to be SOed and they should respec to be more suited for fighting other characters than npc mobs.

 

A lot of the details of the actual structure of the event remain to be finalized. Things like scheduling, which we can't really do until we have enough people signed up. But for example, I would not want to have to do the entire event, all the farming and all the pvp in one go. It's much more likely we'll, for example, do an initial match, then farm a run or two, and then have people fight again. Then we can say "ok let's convene again tomorrow or the next day at a certain time, farmers have your team to lvl 38 by then." That way the farmers can farm at their convenience, maybe accommodate teammates with weird schedules, etc. If people are having fun we might mix it up as well, do impromptu kickballs, 2v2s, 3v3s, huge solo matches, whatever. Then pick up the leveling part when people are ready.

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event (Cancelled)]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

I have several farm builds, and farming is something I can get behind. PvP with S/O builds... Not so much. 

It's an experiment. In the early days of pvp on live people were playing all kinds of different characters. Buffs and debuffs made a huge difference. You had damage spikes but not the crazy procced-out damage you see now. With IOs people can make tankmages that can melt your face nonstop are are very surviveable. So I'm hoping that this will be a fun alternative.

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/28-the-arena-pvp/

 

You might get more traction here or on the Excelsior thread. Good luck!

 

Thanks! This section gets far more traffic than the Excelsior forum and the arena section combined, so I was hoping to get some bites. I'm also not looking for dedicated pvpers, just regular players who want to do something different for the duration of an event. 

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event]

Hola, 

 

I'm running a pvp event on Excelsior that is centered around farming. Farmer captains will pl their teams from 1 to 50, taking breaks to go to the arena and pew pew other teams. Signups and details in this thread:

 

This is the most casual pvp I think the game will currently permit. If you're a captain, you need to do some farming with your farm character. Everyone else just needs to show up with a brand new alt, get leveled, and punch other lowbies. There will be no incarnates and no maxed out IO builds. The only enhancements allowed (in matches, not the farms) are SOs when they become relevant. I'm looking to recreate pvp as it was like in the early days when builds weren't completely broken and it was silly fun.

 

The other thing of note is that I'm offering custom 3d printed busts of the farmers/captains as participation prizes. 

[Hitters and Sitters Pvp Event (Cancelled)]

5 hours ago, EnnVee said:

Curious how this is going to play out............. I can understand the "SITTERS" using SO's only, but I must admit that a farmer on an SO build is going to take a VERY LONG TIME to get anyone levels. IF the farmer can even survive, they won't be of much help in a farming sense without a decent build. I also think the FARMERS should NOT be allowed to PvP, that should be reserved to the sitters as they hit benchmark levels. The Farmers as captains should take a side line in the PvP to cheer on and support their team. 

Just my opinion, but want to get your feedback because I have 2 fully slotted farmers, and would love to join this, just not on an SO'd farmer.

 

I would also like to volunteer the use of my Discord server !! I can create channels for each team so that captains can communicate with their team !
I know that some people may not have mic, but I want everyone to know that if you have a smart phone, you can download discord mobile app, and then your phone becomes your mic, so no one would have to make any sudden purchase! This would be a great way for teams to ask questions, plan out builds, and laugh with each other !

 

Ugh, sorry for the confusion. No, you don't have to pl on an SOed farmer. What I mean is, everyone in the pvp matches has to be SOed. So I was picturing the farmers as either using one of their build slots to bring in an SOed version, or if that isn't possible for some reason they can bring in a lvl 50  SOed double of the farm character. Also, the SO build that the farmer brings in to pvp with doesn't have to be designed for farming. It can and should be aimed at pvp.

 

Regarding the farmers being in matches--i'm flexible on that. We can decide as a group if we get enough captains to run the event. My main concern right now is getting enough people in matches to run the event. Back in the day on live if I offered 3d busts for something like this I'd have had dozens of art whores in here climbing over each other to get one. Now all I'm hearing is crickets. We might need the captains to fight in the matches just to have enough bodies in there.