Abraxus

It was in reference to a previous post, where I talked about the transformative changes that were forced on the music, and movie industries due to the realities of the digital landscape. People didn't like paying $20 for a single CD album of music, and so they resorted to torrents, and sharing of the ripped files. Same went for movies on disk, though I forget exactly what the pricing structure was before they relented. Essentially, they tried to fend of the tide of this new reality by employing legal means. Law suites against individuals, then later on torrent hosts. They managed to take a few down, and preserve the status quo for a time. But, ultimately even they had to admit that things had changed, and these things were going to continue to happen, and there was precious little they could do to stop all of it. So, they reduced the price of music, and made individual tracks available, also at a more reasonable price. What the folks were doing was technically illegal. However, it underscored the concept of infinite resource, and the power of the web to distribute it pretty much at will, so eventually they were hauled kicking and screaming into the new age. I don't know if that is what will happen here. But, the same basic concept applies. The code is out there. They can choose to fight that, or capitalize on it. It didn't work out so well in the long run for those other, larger industries, so there is a historical lesson to be learned there if they choose to fight it.

I only maintain that we at lager-heads, impasse, however you choose to label it, and that further discussion serves no purpose except to fall into the kind of debate that will get us both GM smacked. I like it around here, so if it preserves the peace, I choose to cease discussion on that portion of the topic before said "smacking" begins. 😎

Yup. We still agree to disagree. Situation normal, and moving on....😉

The lack of data, or specific information only means that we don't know exactly who is participating, or the content/status of what is being discussed. However, I don't see that lack of data, or specific information as proof positive of your assertions. You tell me that all I am talking about is hope, when it seems all you're talking about is the exact opposite, with no more empirical evidence than I have. The bottom line is that neither of us KNOW what's going on. But, I'm giving them a little credit, and exercising a little faith, that they collectively know what they're doing, and that their intentions are without ulterior motive. All that said, neither of us is being moved by the other's arguments, so we agree to disagree, move on, and no hard feelings. Yes? 😎 (Oh, and await the outcome hoping for a positive response, in spite of any obstacles, of course)

All I can say to that is, without knowing for sure who is involved, you seem sure that they are unqualified. There might very well be additional folks participating that meet the requirements you spoke of, or at least consultants furnishing pertinent information. We just don't know. But, I have optimistically assumed that they would have brought in whatever expertise was necessary, where you seem to assume that they just took on NCSoft all by themselves. Neither of us have any proof one way, or the other. But, my way has the benefit of logic, in that nobody willingly walks into an unknown situation without having thought the matter through, and knowing their own limitations. I'll go so far as to admit it's a possibility, but I would think unlikely. We both want a good outcome, but only I seem to believe it's reasonably possible. Perhaps just a difference it outlook, but I'm good with mine for the moment. 😎

A very real possibility. But, I maintain that if things weren't looking very positive, and close to completion, they would not have shared what they have already. They know things that we don't know, so all we can do is speculate based on what we have. However, there are some inferences that can be made from that small tidbit of information. Your observation that if there wasn't a compelling reason to do so, NCSoft would have never even shown up, and just smacked everyone with a C&D right away. That would have been the easiest thing they could have done, and yet they didn't. What has happened since is that the community is thriving, and enjoying this game again. Hopefully, they see some value in that. We are all waiting on the edge of our seat for a positive conclusion. But, as has been pointed out already, things could easily go sideways at any moment. We have encouraging words from the Devs that would suggest otherwise, at least for now. We don't know where it will end, or when. We only know it's going to be one hell of a ride!

I take "transparency" in this context to mean, they are telling us all that they can without ulterior motives. If some folks take it as false hope, that is their own perception of what was shared in that spirit. I'm not sure where your unshakable lack of faith in their business abilities comes from, but it seems that while you wish them luck, you see them as in over their heads, and ultimately doomed to fail. Besides being a very pessimistic outlook, it assumes a lot with little actual knowledge of what is happening. Almost the exact counter to those of us with optimism about it, without the benefit of actual knowledge. I guess we won't know which was actually justified until it's over, one way, or the other. For me, I think I'll have a little faith, and keep the optimistic outlook. Mainly because I see no reason not to. But, I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree with it. You do you man! 😎

Well, there is the possibility that you might not know exactly what they bring to the table, because nobody has really been explicit about exactly WHO is involved. There might be more there than just Homecoming folks, who might have the right business acumen to fill in the gaps in these matters. But, you're right in that nobody knows for sure. All I'm trying to say is that they have a bargaining chip they didn't have before, and regardless of how it was obtained, it is a reality that other business in similar situations eventually had to acknowledge, and move on. I have high hopes, and also allow for the possibility that things could go sideways. However, the only reason they shared what they did, was in the interest of transparency (which is exactly what they said they would do), and because it appeared that things were looking that positive, and that close to being finalized that they didn't think it too premature. That last part is obviously supposition on my part, given what they said at the time, but assuming good intentions on the part of the HC team is not too risky a thing IMHO. So, I believe it fits the situation.

I'm just saying there is historical precedent for this scenario with industries a LOT bigger than NCSoft, with a lot more money at stake. At some point, the reality of the situation, regardless of how it came to be, become a factor for consideration, leaving two choices. Fight for the past, or capitalize on the present. Those aforementioned industries chose the former, and lost a lot of money in that fight, and ultimately lost the fight. What's being offered is a much easier, and mutually beneficial choice, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they would take advantage of it.

I totally get that, and they pretty much did shine previous efforts on for years with no results. The difference here is, we already have the game, and the code is an infinite resource on the web. That was never the case before, and a chip that no previous negotiating team had to play. So, even for NCSoft, they face a new reality that changes the balance of things drastically. Their choice now, is to figure out how to capitalize on this new reality, or try to maintain the status quo, and spend time and resources, attempting to police a game that they didn't see much of a future in for the longest time. Now, it has a great potential future, and they can be a part of it. Any business would look at that, and see opportunity, despite their first impulse to crush their enemies. That's why I'm encouraged. Because it's a potential win-win for them. The other alternative is a futile effort to put the genie back in the bottle, and one only has to look at what happened to the music, movie/video industries to know how that ultimately turns out. They fought mightily to keep things as they were, and spent a lot of money to do it. But, in the end, the changes they fought so hard against, happened anyway, because of the power that the digital age, and the web gave to their customers. They forced a change that was a long time coming, and just needed the leverage to get them to see a different point of view, or admit that it just no longer made sense to fight the crushing tides of change. Either way, it happened. There are no guarantees. But, the chances of success are better than they have ever been IMHO.

Another "there it is in a nutshell" post IMHO! Thanks for summing it up so succinctly! I'm sure it would have taken me 3 paragraphs to articulate the same sentiment. 😉

I believe a lot of those settings can be saved "as default", and so should come up automatically when a new character is created. I've gotten that to work with most of my window customizations, except the additional power trays that I always create (beyond the default 3). But, that is still a lot less work than it was before I saved those values to default.

And there ya have it! This was an interrogative thought experiment, which now has some definitive answers/information. Thanks to "Number 6" for taking the time to share some information with us, which makes us all a little more informed when it comes to the back-end architecture. 😎

Yup! As much as I love the game, without the great community that has always surrounded it, an important element would be missing, making it less overall.

I don't share this concern, as I don't see this happening much. But, I totally respect your take on it!

I liked the flexibility of their costume designer, but not the overall style of the characters it produced. Besides, if serious development is happening here again, we could have things approaching this in the future. I for one, intend to be here to find out!

My thoughts exactly. One of the few things Champions did that I liked better than what CoH had.

I will admit though, if Champions was more of what he thought was a good game, then it is a good thing he left when he did. I would hate for him to have stayed, and pushed CoH in directions that Champions embraced. Just not a fan.

Well, in this scenario, one would hope that a solution to that would be offered before such decision was made. Being a "glass half full" kind of guy, I assume good intentions in these things, until I have reason to feel otherwise, as opposed to thinking that everybody is intentionally trying to screw me over with every change that life brings. Implementing a global naming system could deal with that issue. I believe I have seen discussions about that, and that the verdict was that it would be difficult, and probably not something they wanted to tackle unless there was a more compelling reason. Well, this would be a more compelling reason. Plus, if the NCSoft deal is successful, I think we can look forward to much more bold plans for the future of the game. As for the multiple instances issue, I kind of already addressed that above. Something to the effect of, the 64-bit client might also give the mapservers the ability to handle instances more efficiently, and not need to spawn extra instances so frequently because of player population/activity. I don't know that is the fact of things, but it sounds like a possibility that would make consolidation possible, with minimal effect on play/convenience. Since this is essentially a thought experiment, this is all just theory, and what things it could improve based on the new realities. Not shackled by the old. 🙂😎

Plus, if the mapservers too benefited from a 64-bit client, in theory, more players could occupy a single instance without the server giving up the ghost. So, that might not be a major issue either. Again, this is all a mental exercise for discussion, especially since I am not a developer, and have no idea if the basic premise is even sound. I just thought it was an interesting question. So, by all means...carry on! 🙂

Can't imagine what the problem would be there, but I respect their opinions, whomever they are. 😎

I was wondering 'twixt myself about the benefits of the 64-bit client down the road. As we know, it gives the client access to hardware resources beyond those restrictions dictated by the 32-bit version. So, I wondered if, perhaps, a 64-bit server client makes it possible to consolidate servers to host more players, with less resources necessary? There is much I don't know about the back-end operations, so it could just be ignorance on my part, and much more would have to be done for this old code to take full advantage of modern hardware. But, follow me here. Think of a world where two shards, rather than 4 (leaving the European server as is, to minimize lag) could host all of our players. The consolidated numbers of players mean there would be a lot more folks around for pretty much an endeavor one might want to participate in, whether it be missions, TFs, Hami Raids, Incarnate Trials, MSR, etc. What do you all think? Would that be a good thing in your estimation?

It occurs to me that, when discussions regarding the game we love, degenerate into arguments that only divide us over something that used to bring us together; well, it's regrettable, and we should take a breath. Let's remember why we are here, and we will play the game. 😎

I feel the same way. But, when it comes to legal issues, our opinion on it doesn't matter. Our only real choice is to do what it requires, or be aware of the consequences if we choose not to. In this case, the consequences could be to "generic-ize" your character. It's not happening now, and it hasn't been said that it will happen in a post-NCSoft deal. But, it is a possibility to be aware of, and to plan accordingly, not unlike most other things in life. 😎

That's it in a nutshell for me. It's NOT a thing right now. All of this discussion is more of a "what if" scenario on the premise that the negotiations are successful, and the many permutations of what that might mean in the future. So, to perhaps give some thought to things of that nature, and each of us do our part try to avoid the obvious land mines now, to avoid a scramble in the event this DOES become a thing. Nobody is telling anyone else how to play, or what to make. But, the quest for legitimacy is liable to have an effect on what's permissible, and overlooked in the future, as opposed to the current landscape where anything goes. Some won't take the hint. Some won't care, until it affects them, or their character. Then watch the complaints fly about how they had no idea this was coming, or why it happened. Some might be able to legitimately make that claim, because they don't really read the forums, or anything else concerning the game, or the changes that a successful deal with likely bring. They just play. But, for those of us that do, if such a thing were to become a reality, none of us should be surprised by it.