Abraxus

Great work guys! Don't ever think it's not appreciated!

I went silent on the topic a week ago, and while I've watched from the bleachers, I stand by that decision. What is known, is all that CAN be known at this point. You are either good with it, or you're not. Further debate served no purpose, other than to potentially antagonize folks that I really like talking to in these forums, Jubakumbi included. After 28 pages of comments, I think we've talked this one out to the extent possible. Unless we want to keep talking about the D. Then, let's keep it rolling! 😉

Somewhere down the line, perhaps they will. But, that would be a pretty fundamental change to implement in just a couple of months from being back, and before they know for sure how long it will be around. Once that deal is done, and the future is assured, I'm sure they would be willing to look at a bigger scope of things to go after.

I suspected as much...but I just couldn't let myself go there. Reality smacks one like a 10 pound sledge. 😁

Great guide! It addresses SO much! One thing folks should know though. If you create a character on the Beta Server (justin), level that character up via the slash command, give them 2 billion in influence (also via slash command), go through the power selection, and slot assignment, you can then craft Incarnate abilities completely free, and quick! So, you can not only become familiar with the mechanics of the crafting process, but also with the powers themselves. You can take them for a test drive, and see how you like them before you commit to any of them on the Live server! After that you can take that MIDS build you worked so hard to fashion, and also build that. Kind of a live action MIDS builder, complete with enemies to test stuff on!

One other way to get a feel for it. Go to the Beta Server (Justin), spin up a character, level him up to 50 with the "/" command, then craft a T4 version of the ones you are curious about. The whole thing takes about 20 minutes to get to that point (due to having to choose powers, and slots to fill out the L50 set by the slash command). Crafting Incarnate powers is free (as is pretty much everything else), and is really quick. So, you can test out whatever you like! I have been doing that for builds, and testing out Incarnate stuff I was curious about, but didn't have the time to explore on live. This test server is like a real-time version of the Mids builder, where you can build what you want, THEN go test it out! It's awesome!

I'll give him another try then. Perhaps it's because I concentrated on all of the healing, and power pool stuff (leadership), and bypassed most of my attack powers. For a Defender, they always seemed like the weakest part of their build to me, but perhaps I need to even things out. We'll see!

...and so, I remain firmly in my "good place", having never really left it. 😎

IF this all works out, and Homecoming is recognized as the recognized legitimate home of CoH, it's only going to be the start of issues that surround the other servers. Since I don't play on any of them (and in some cases, don't care to try), whatever is proposed won't affect me. But, I'm certain there will be some thought given to that aspect of the community. The only thing I am certain of there, is that we know less about what that would mean, than we do about the deal currently being talked about. However, that comes after a deal is finalized, so I'm good with waiting on the first being completed, before starting, or participating in a thread about what happens afterward. I get my fill of speculation, and conjecture on a daily basis right here in this thread, thank you! 😉

They could. It would just be the least productive, and least profitable move they could make. They wouldn't be at the negotiating table if they weren't interested in something, some potential thing of interest here. Nobody forced them to do that. Granted, they could have ulterior motives to gather specific information only to turn-around and use it to destroy everything. But, there are other ways to do that, that don't require the facade of talking to Homecoming/Titan team at all. Obviously, I don't know how all this will turn out, any more than anyone else here. But, I feel like, unless there is some huge secret they are harboring about why they are there in the first place, the indicators are more positive, than negative.

I wouldn't play like I do now, but by god, I'd play! It might be almost as quiet as Icon was, before Paragon Chat came along, but I'd still play! I have enough friends that play, and two of them already have servers of their own, that I could make it work. It obviously would not be the same experience, but...I'D PLAY! 😎

We all know the easiest thing to do for them, if they really wanted to come for us, is kill the biggest servers. Sure, that would take an important element out of play, but the game would still be out there, and there is no way they can ever fully remedy that. It would certainly reduce enthusiasm for play, but it wouldn't kill it outright. It would just be driven further underground, as it was for the last 7 years. The game will never be fully taken away from us again, but they could have a profound effect on how we play it, for better, or worse. That is a fact they can't change with a C&D. The indomitable, and enduring spirit of this community have kept this game alive FAR longer than was logical, given the circumstances. It finally burst forth like a new-born star a few months ago, and it was a revelation. I think they are smart enough to appreciate the dynamics of what's going on, or they wouldn't even have shown up in the first place, and certainly would not have provided a positive enough atmosphere for the Devs to say what they have about it. Does anyone really think they would have said anything if it was the same old routine, and it looked like there was NO way this was going to work? That makes no sense to me, so I choose to believe that we have a good chance (not a certain one by any means), to see things change in very positive ways over the coming months.

I think the takeaway here is that there will be fans, critics, and pessimists, on anything said or done with regards to this operation, and this deal. This is nothing new here, or on any other debatable topic. It will always run the gamut, and folks will think, and say what they will on the subject at hand, based on their own perspective. I am in the group that sees the positive in what is happening, bears no ill, and holds no grudges for the past. I am fully aware of what was in the past, and I am convinced that it is a different situation now, than it has been in the past. Obviously, there are those who don't see it that way, and that's fine. In the end, whether it's successful, or not, we'll be on the same page at that point, and likely not a second sooner.

Godspeed man!

It was in reference to a previous post, where I talked about the transformative changes that were forced on the music, and movie industries due to the realities of the digital landscape. People didn't like paying $20 for a single CD album of music, and so they resorted to torrents, and sharing of the ripped files. Same went for movies on disk, though I forget exactly what the pricing structure was before they relented. Essentially, they tried to fend of the tide of this new reality by employing legal means. Law suites against individuals, then later on torrent hosts. They managed to take a few down, and preserve the status quo for a time. But, ultimately even they had to admit that things had changed, and these things were going to continue to happen, and there was precious little they could do to stop all of it. So, they reduced the price of music, and made individual tracks available, also at a more reasonable price. What the folks were doing was technically illegal. However, it underscored the concept of infinite resource, and the power of the web to distribute it pretty much at will, so eventually they were hauled kicking and screaming into the new age. I don't know if that is what will happen here. But, the same basic concept applies. The code is out there. They can choose to fight that, or capitalize on it. It didn't work out so well in the long run for those other, larger industries, so there is a historical lesson to be learned there if they choose to fight it.

I only maintain that we at lager-heads, impasse, however you choose to label it, and that further discussion serves no purpose except to fall into the kind of debate that will get us both GM smacked. I like it around here, so if it preserves the peace, I choose to cease discussion on that portion of the topic before said "smacking" begins. 😎

Yup. We still agree to disagree. Situation normal, and moving on....😉

The lack of data, or specific information only means that we don't know exactly who is participating, or the content/status of what is being discussed. However, I don't see that lack of data, or specific information as proof positive of your assertions. You tell me that all I am talking about is hope, when it seems all you're talking about is the exact opposite, with no more empirical evidence than I have. The bottom line is that neither of us KNOW what's going on. But, I'm giving them a little credit, and exercising a little faith, that they collectively know what they're doing, and that their intentions are without ulterior motive. All that said, neither of us is being moved by the other's arguments, so we agree to disagree, move on, and no hard feelings. Yes? 😎 (Oh, and await the outcome hoping for a positive response, in spite of any obstacles, of course)

All I can say to that is, without knowing for sure who is involved, you seem sure that they are unqualified. There might very well be additional folks participating that meet the requirements you spoke of, or at least consultants furnishing pertinent information. We just don't know. But, I have optimistically assumed that they would have brought in whatever expertise was necessary, where you seem to assume that they just took on NCSoft all by themselves. Neither of us have any proof one way, or the other. But, my way has the benefit of logic, in that nobody willingly walks into an unknown situation without having thought the matter through, and knowing their own limitations. I'll go so far as to admit it's a possibility, but I would think unlikely. We both want a good outcome, but only I seem to believe it's reasonably possible. Perhaps just a difference it outlook, but I'm good with mine for the moment. 😎

A very real possibility. But, I maintain that if things weren't looking very positive, and close to completion, they would not have shared what they have already. They know things that we don't know, so all we can do is speculate based on what we have. However, there are some inferences that can be made from that small tidbit of information. Your observation that if there wasn't a compelling reason to do so, NCSoft would have never even shown up, and just smacked everyone with a C&D right away. That would have been the easiest thing they could have done, and yet they didn't. What has happened since is that the community is thriving, and enjoying this game again. Hopefully, they see some value in that. We are all waiting on the edge of our seat for a positive conclusion. But, as has been pointed out already, things could easily go sideways at any moment. We have encouraging words from the Devs that would suggest otherwise, at least for now. We don't know where it will end, or when. We only know it's going to be one hell of a ride!

I take "transparency" in this context to mean, they are telling us all that they can without ulterior motives. If some folks take it as false hope, that is their own perception of what was shared in that spirit. I'm not sure where your unshakable lack of faith in their business abilities comes from, but it seems that while you wish them luck, you see them as in over their heads, and ultimately doomed to fail. Besides being a very pessimistic outlook, it assumes a lot with little actual knowledge of what is happening. Almost the exact counter to those of us with optimism about it, without the benefit of actual knowledge. I guess we won't know which was actually justified until it's over, one way, or the other. For me, I think I'll have a little faith, and keep the optimistic outlook. Mainly because I see no reason not to. But, I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree with it. You do you man! 😎

Well, there is the possibility that you might not know exactly what they bring to the table, because nobody has really been explicit about exactly WHO is involved. There might be more there than just Homecoming folks, who might have the right business acumen to fill in the gaps in these matters. But, you're right in that nobody knows for sure. All I'm trying to say is that they have a bargaining chip they didn't have before, and regardless of how it was obtained, it is a reality that other business in similar situations eventually had to acknowledge, and move on. I have high hopes, and also allow for the possibility that things could go sideways. However, the only reason they shared what they did, was in the interest of transparency (which is exactly what they said they would do), and because it appeared that things were looking that positive, and that close to being finalized that they didn't think it too premature. That last part is obviously supposition on my part, given what they said at the time, but assuming good intentions on the part of the HC team is not too risky a thing IMHO. So, I believe it fits the situation.

I'm just saying there is historical precedent for this scenario with industries a LOT bigger than NCSoft, with a lot more money at stake. At some point, the reality of the situation, regardless of how it came to be, become a factor for consideration, leaving two choices. Fight for the past, or capitalize on the present. Those aforementioned industries chose the former, and lost a lot of money in that fight, and ultimately lost the fight. What's being offered is a much easier, and mutually beneficial choice, so it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they would take advantage of it.

I totally get that, and they pretty much did shine previous efforts on for years with no results. The difference here is, we already have the game, and the code is an infinite resource on the web. That was never the case before, and a chip that no previous negotiating team had to play. So, even for NCSoft, they face a new reality that changes the balance of things drastically. Their choice now, is to figure out how to capitalize on this new reality, or try to maintain the status quo, and spend time and resources, attempting to police a game that they didn't see much of a future in for the longest time. Now, it has a great potential future, and they can be a part of it. Any business would look at that, and see opportunity, despite their first impulse to crush their enemies. That's why I'm encouraged. Because it's a potential win-win for them. The other alternative is a futile effort to put the genie back in the bottle, and one only has to look at what happened to the music, movie/video industries to know how that ultimately turns out. They fought mightily to keep things as they were, and spent a lot of money to do it. But, in the end, the changes they fought so hard against, happened anyway, because of the power that the digital age, and the web gave to their customers. They forced a change that was a long time coming, and just needed the leverage to get them to see a different point of view, or admit that it just no longer made sense to fight the crushing tides of change. Either way, it happened. There are no guarantees. But, the chances of success are better than they have ever been IMHO.

Another "there it is in a nutshell" post IMHO! Thanks for summing it up so succinctly! I'm sure it would have taken me 3 paragraphs to articulate the same sentiment. 😉