scottocamp

That is not really true. Melee Core Hybrid is layered on top of your normal 24 powers. It also provides a substantial regeneration buff. RoP requires you to commit 3 of your 24 base powers to be able to incorporate RoP into your build. There are *many* combinations of 3 primary, secondary, epic and pool powers that would be functionally equivalent to a single incarnate power. To be fair - you are not simply comparing RoP to Melee Core Hybrid. You are comparing giving up three powers to be able to obtain an equivalency to Melee Core Hybrid. Which is why it is important to see how many level 50 builds even make use of RoP. That would be a more accurate method to determine if the power is over-tuned. How many level 50 builds use Weave or Tactics compared to RoP?

Again - where is the evidence to support this? How many level 50 builds even make use of RoP? How is RoP "overtuned" in comparison to Hasten, Tough, Weave, Fold Space, Tactics, etc? Are more players choosing to use RoP than choosing to use Tactics or Tough? Some (any) support for your assertion would be helpful. It is difficult to give thoughtful feedback when so little is presented for why this nerf is occurring.

Sorcery > Rune of Protection Duration reduced from 90s to 60s to match the other Origin pool tier 5 powers First, the reason offered for this change has no meaning. You can "match" RoP, Adrenal Booster and Unleash Potential by making all three powers any duration of time. Making all of them 120 seconds in duration matches the three powers. Making all of them 10 seconds in duration matches the three powers. What would be helpful to know is why they are being matched at 60 seconds. What is special about 60 seconds? Is it simply because there are two of them at 60 seconds and only one of them at 90 seconds? That seems a little silly to me. Why is 60 seconds appropriate for those 3 powers and 90 seconds inappropriate? Second, why do these three powers even need to be matched? Why not match all three up with Hasten - another pool power with a 120 second duration. Why balance RoP against even less popular pool power choices? Why not balance against the pool powers players actually seem to use? Or better yet, why not balance RoP against the primary, secondary and epic powers players would need to skip in order to take RoP? When Titan Weapons was nerfed, there was a lot of data given to demonstrate the excessive popularity of the set and a lot of metrics presented to show how over-powered the set was in practice. Nothing like that has been offered in defense of this nerf. Let us see how many level 50 toons even use RoP. I suspect it is close to 10%. I make that estimate based on the number of builds I have that make use of RoP. If 90% of the builds don't consider RoP worth taking, then what is the rationale to nerf such a power? Conversely if 30% of the builds take Tactics, 40% of the builds take Weave, 60% of the builds take Hasten and 80% of the builds take RoP; then that is a convincing argument that RoP is likely too powerful. But nothing concrete like that has been offered to justify this nerf. Show us the metrics to support this nerf. The arguments presented so far - like Arcane's statement that "the change is perfectly reasonable and that Sorcery comes out the other end as a strong and viable power pool choice" offer no factual support that the change is indeed perfectly reasonable. Why exactly is a 60 second duration more reasonable than a 90 second duration? What data are you basing that on? How do you know RoP will remain viable after this change? My personal "data" shows that only 1 in 10 of my builds think RoP worth the investment with a 90 second duration. That would indicate it is *not* a power that is breaking the game and needs to be reduced in utility. Other pool powers like Hasten are much easier to obtain and just as powerful with an even longer duration. Many pool powers - like Tactics, Combat Jumping, Combat Teleportation, Tough and Weave are certainly taken much more frequently than RoP and yet they are not being nerfed. There needs to be more justification offered for this nerf. Let us see what pool powers are actually being taken and how RoP compares. Please offer an actual explanation for why this needs to happen.

I understand your point. You are saying RoP is not a good power. It is not a power you have even taken. Not a power you will ever take. There are much better ways to deal with mez than adding RoP to your build. RoP is like a horse drawn carriage. RoP is like Brawl. RoP is completely unnecessary. BUT........ Compared to other Pool powers (other powers in the same "class") RoP is over-powered, over-tuned and needs to be nerfed. Because other Pool powers like Flurry are even worse than RoP, then RoP needs to be brought down a notch. So let's take the wheels off that horse drawn carriage. My point is that this is a ridiculous solution. Yes, the issue is somewhat apples and oranges - but perhaps we should look at the whole fruit basket once in a while. Why make a power you obviously don't consider a very good power even less useful simply because it exists in the class of Pool powers that all happen to be fairly useless? Why not instead make Pool powers as a class more relevant? Why not make RoP a power you might actually consider taking? Or in other words, why argue to nerf a power you currently believe is not worth taking? Again - I get your point. I just think it is an odd point to make.

Still seems odd to me to say that RoP is both over-tuned *and* inferior. A horse drawn carriage in modern day New York city certainly doesn't need to be made even less useful. Why make this "completely unnecessary" power less useful?

Are you saying that RoP as it currently stands is never worth taking? That would seem to argue for not making the power even less effective.

You make a good point. I think Support and CC powers are less effective in high level group situations because of the speed these groups now operate at - but not everyone enjoys participating in these high level groups, Support and CC toons are still both interesting and insanely powerful and a broader and more varied selection of useful pool powers should allow Support and CC AT's to better tailor builds to contribute at the higher levels. At present I also feel like some AT's are able to leverage the few existing good pool powers better than other AT's. Which leads me to think giving players more and better pool options is a preferable solution to more rigidly defining AT's.

Further blurring the lines seems to be the best part of CoH. If someone wants to create Doc Scrapper - a scrapper that kills AND heals - then why not? The game is largely a character creation game. I don't really see what is accomplished at this point (given all the existing AT's, set bonuses, epic powers, temp powers, amplifiers, incarnate powers and such) to try to pretend a Blaster is This and a Tanker is That and a Mastermind can't be either This or That.

Your analysis is spot on. And I think the solution to both issues is to make pool powers more relevant and useful and to use pool powers to address weaknesses in the game like the binary aspect of mez protection. Offer quality mez resistance as part of certain higher level pool powers so that players have access to mez resistance outside of their primary and secondary power options - *if* they choose to invest a significant portion of their 24 powers toward that goal. I suspect much of the negative reaction to nerfing RoP is simply because there are so few mez protection options. It seems inconsistent to me that you can get a lot of recharge, defense & resistance through pool powers but precious little mez resistance outside of Acrobatics and RoP. And I completely agree it makes no sense to offer useless pool powers. And it makes no sense to make pool powers pointlessly weak. Why not allow someone to swap out primary and/or secondary powers for decent pool powers? Why force someone to stick with a primary power they don't really like? The idea that we have to maintain the "purity" of the archetypes is not really consistent with incarnate powers, temporary powers, amplifiers and the fact that some AT's can get exactly what they need from pool powers while others cannot. If someone wants to be a scrapper / healer and is willing to take 4 or 5 Medicine Pool powers - they should get some kick-ass healing powers out of that investment. Not the crappy Pool Power heals we have now. Give folks more flexibility and more opportunity to be creative. And if someone wants to commit to taking all 5 Sorcery Pool powers, make RoP last 120 seconds. Surely a 120 second duration RoP and 4 other Sorcery powers is not going to be over-powered compared to the 5 powers you could have chosen from your primary/secondary choices. Heck, give other powers like Adrenal Booster a longer duration the more you invest in a specific pool. That will only make the game more interesting, more fun and more complex. The best way to deal with powers like Hasten and RoP is *not* to nerf the powers (and certainly *not* to make them inherent). Just make it incredibly difficult to choose these powers because there are so many equally good pool powers available to choose. I would be much less likely to always choose Hasten if there was an amazing self-heal I might be able to get from the Medicine Pool or an amazing Spring Attack from the Leaping Pool. The problem is not that Hasten is over-powered in and of itself - the problem is that Hasten is over-powered compared to all the other Pool Power options. The change to the Teleportation Pool is a wonderful example of how to move forward. All 5 Teleportation Pool powers are now useful and desirable. Taking 3-4 of these powers is not making anyone over-powered compared to what they could have chosen with those 3-4 powers. People love the new teleportation powers as far as I can tell. I certainly do. People choosing Fold Space might not be choosing Hasten now. People are more invested in their creations because the toons are more individualized. It's a win all across the board. That all said - it seems as if the HC team is moving in this direction any way. Given that, the change to RoP seems hard to understand. I ran an ITF last night and two of us had Fold Space. Running an ITF with Fold Space is a completely different experience. Everyone moves to a spot and then we just suck everyone to us. Fold Space is a transformative power that is absolutely wonderful. Rune of Protection even at a 90 second duration sort of pales in comparison honestly. Bringing the rest of the Pools (including Sorcery) up to the level you have already established with the Teleportation Pool is the way to go. 🙂 Just my two cents. I cannot tell you how grateful I am for all the improvements the HC Team is making to the game. Bravo!!

Another possible solution to Rune of Protection (following similar changes in the Fighting Pool) would be to extend the duration of RoP based on the number of Sorcery powers picked. Like 60 seconds for 3 Sorcery powers, 90 seconds for 4 Sorcery powers and 120 seconds if you invest in all 5 Sorcery pool powers.

Absolutely agree with this. The game is much more fun and interesting when power choices are difficult to make because the choices are all good choices. In the past I would never have considered the Teleportation Pool for any of my builds. Now with Fold Space and Combat Teleportation the Teleportation Pool is relevant, my build choices are more varied and complex, the obvious choices are less obvious and I spend more time playing and thinking about the game. Making Rune of Protection less useful and less attractive runs counter to everything else the Homecoming Team seems to be putting in place. Instead make it difficult to not consider taking a pool power. Reducing the effectiveness of RoP makes it simpler to just ignore the whole Sorcery pool. Adding more pool powers and buffing powers like Unleash Potential, Corrosive Vial, Enflame, Spring Attack, Misdirection and such make the game a lot more complex, enjoyable and varied. There is already a limit hard wired into the game - the number of powers you can take. Make choosing those 24 powers as difficult as possible because the choices are so amazing. The rest of the proposed power changes look great. But I would also vote to buff other similar pool powers rather than nerf RoP if consistency across the board is deemed necessary.

I would think Fold Space with Traps would be incredible.

Sorry - being too enthusiastic in my description of the power! Fold Space pulls all the mobs in the immediate area - but yes, capped at 16 and 100 foot radius. Which is still quite excellent. It just seems like I am clearing the whole map I guess. <lol> Fold Space also recharges much more quickly than I expected. So it is always up again for the next slaughter.

I would agree with you for most power combos - but I have to say that Fold Space is the greatest power ever invented for an Electric Control / Trick Arrow controller. I can place Static Field, Poison Gas Arrow, Disruption Arrow and Oil Slick Arrow AOE fields from a distance at my leisure, combat teleport to the stacked AOE fields, immediately pull everything into the killing zone with Fold Space, hit Soul Drain and spam one or two attacks and the entire map is dead within seconds. It is absolutely glorious. I have made hundreds of level 50's over the years and nothing compares to hitting an entire map full of targets with so many controls and attacks simultaneously. You just can't cluster the whole map in one place on top of so many AOE fields without Fold Space.

Here is my Electric/TA build. My plan was also to double up on sleep fields as a means of locking down mobs. But the sleep effect from Poison Gas Arrow seems a bit sporadic. It just didn't seem to add much to what Static Field was already providing. I have to say I struggled for a long time trying to find a rhythm with this combination. The two sets together have a ton of great powers but they didn't seem to work together as well as I hoped. Conductive Aura is amazing but you have to be in the middle of the mob for it to be effective. Synaptic Overload is great but it causes mobs to scatter. The revamped Flash Arrow provides wonderful protection assuming you can hit the whole mob. And so on. So many powers that needed to be used but not enough time to fire them all off in any effective manner. Or at least that was my impression as I worked through a couple dozen different builds. I found myself either frantically trying to throw out all these debuffs to survive while not doing much damage or alternately focusing on damage at the expense of my survival. Then I discovered Fold Space!!! Fold Space has made this perhaps my most effective and entertaining toon. I can now clear mobs incredibly fast. I mostly farm the Heather Townshend arc and I have been flying through those 4x8 mobs with this build. I don't believe any other level 50 toon I have can clear mobs as quickly. Fold Space allows me to activate several powers in advance so that I'm not scrambling to do so much once I engage. I can then just pull the entire mob into one giant already placed Oil Slick/Static Field/Disruption Arrow/EMP Arrow/Conductive Aura killing zone. Once I pull the mob to me I hit them first with Flash Arrow and Poison Gas Arrow - which debuffs the full mob. I don't have to chase a scattered mob around trying to debuff them all to stay alive. (If the mob is sufficiently clustered I can use Flash Arrow in advance of Fold Space.) Then I just spam Jolting Chain, Chain Fences, Dark Obliteration and Acid Arrow until everything is dead. And everything dies very quickly. Soul Drain from Soul Mastery is also fantastic as I can hit the whole mob for increased To Hit and Damage. I did not start off with all the purple sets. I have been adding those over time as I generate cash - mostly to help Oil Slick recharge faster. The purple sets can be easily swapped out for much cheaper sets like Malaise & Call of the Sandman. Fold Space recharges very quickly with just a single enhancement. At first it bothered me that the Gremlins kept initiating combat before I was completely ready. But now I don't care. I just let the Gremlins do their thing while I lay down Oil Slick, Static Field & Disruption Arrow in advance of Fold Space. The Electric/TA combo benefits in such an unimaginable way from clustering all the mobs next to you. All the mobs are continuously falling / sleeping / losing endurance / burning / being held / losing resistance and generally just flopping all over the place. It is crazy. Synaptic Overload is now my "oh crap" power. If a few hits get through somehow I also lay down the group confuse. Which is honestly brutal overkill. I almost feel sorry for the mobs. I would normally be terrified to have a build with such minimal defense - but I find I rarely ever take any damage. It seems magical to me. The big downside is getting enough accuracy to make the proc attacks effective and having enough endurance to be spamming all these powers. Endurance consumption is a very big issue. Which is why I went with the Vigor Alpha and the Ageless Destiny incarnates. It also feels odd skipping an AOE hold like Paralyzing Blast but I just did not need yet another way to mess with the mobs. I also use Stealth to get as close as I can to the mobs without Conductive Aura alerting them to my presence. All this is for solo play of course. On a team very little of this is effective. On teams I mostly just use the debuffs, the single target hold, Oil Slick and such. Here is the build as it currently stands: https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1429&c=735&a=1470&f=HEX&dc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

I use Total Domination a lot. I think it is worth taking. Obviously Aura of Confusion would have little value on a ranged Fortunata but the single target confuse would still be very powerful as a ranged tool to target the most worrisome enemy in each mob before fully engaging the mob. My experience is that a Fortunata needs to compensate for minimal hit points and a lack of healing/regeneration with an aggressive use of controls and proc-heavy attacks. To that end I would recommend using as many procs as possible in Soul Tentacles, Dark Obliteration & Dominate. Much like you have already done with Psionic Tornado. You have the To Hit and Accuracy to make that happen. But endurance will be an issue. Which is why you have obviously slotted Tornado as you have. The difference between 1 slot and 5 slots in both Maneuvers is about 1% extra defense for each power. Not sure that is worth the 8 slots. But obviously set bonuses are nice. I would frankenslot Mind Link to include the Shield Wall and Reactive Defenses specials. It will increase your Mind Link recharge and also give you more resistance. You should also get the Preventive Medicine proc. A Force Feedback special in Psionic Tornado is fairly helpful and would take some of the pressure off of chasing recharge bonuses in sets. Not going to talk you out of going all ranged - but a Fortunata seems most powerful right in the middle of everything. Passing up Spin, Follow Up and Aura of Confusion seems a steep price to pay. My build just as a comparison: http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1530&c=736&a=1472&f=HEX&dc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don't really think of my Fortunata as having melee or ranged attacks. I consider the attacks as either Single Target or AOE attacks. I find Follow Up, Dominate and Lunge are all I need for a great single target attack chain. TK Blast as a 4th option if needed. For groups, counting the Judgement attack my build has 6 AOE attacks - all of which work well in close range. Being able to always have 2-5 proc-heavy AOE attacks up and ready is a huge benefit. I also alternate between Aura of Confusion and Total Domination and use the single target confuse when dealing with tougher mobs - like Carnies and Longbow. Those three controls are exceptionally powerful. But the AOE's alone are usually enough for easier mobs. All together it is an enormous amount of control and firepower. Your ranged Fortunata has all the firepower (6 cone/AOE attacks including Judgement and great ST attacks like Subdue and Gloom) but is missing nearly all the control. So I feel you are losing leverage against those tougher mobs. For additional survival, I alternate between Rune of Protection and Melee Core Embodiment for extra resistance. The Melee Core Embodiment breaks stealth so I lean more heavily on Rune of Protection. I use Spirit Ward as a free slot to place the Absorb proc from Preventive Medicine since it fires off even in a power you don't actually use. I also like using the Entomb Absorb proc in Total Domination. I use the Vigor Alpha for the endurance reduction and the accuracy to drive all the proc attacks. The healing is wasted but such is life. I went for the Ageless Destiny power since mobs die too fast for me to need a heal and the extra Debuff Resistance defense is very helpful - as well as the extra endurance and recharge. The great thing about a Fortunata is that you can get great survival out of very few powers and slots - which allows for a lot more emphasis on attacks and controls. Which is largely what you seem to be aiming for and accomplishing in your build. It is a good build. 🙂 Just my two cents.

Ah perfect! Thanks!!

On Bio Armor the Defensive Adaptation button reads as Prestige Power Rush and cannot be engaged. Sprint also reads as Prestige Power Slide and can't be engaged. I appear to have loaded the update successfully. Otherwise seems great!!

Experiencing the exact same issue.

I noticed that the Hybrid Core Melee powers break Hide on a stalker. If you do nothing else but simply activate the power while hidden in the middle of a mob, the entire mob will suddenly attack you. I know the Hybrid Radial Melee powers have a taunt component and will break Hide on a stalker - but was not expecting the Core side of the Incarnate tree to have the same effect. The Core side of the tree is not supposed to have any taunt effect. I mentioned to a GM and they said that was not working as intended and to report in this forum as a bug. So - duly reported! 🙂 Thank you for your help and all that you do!!