scottocamp

Cool - that makes sense. Thanks!

I have no idea how the FF Proc is supposed to work. But I have 5 pieces of Superior Frozen Blast in Psinado along with the FF Proc. So I have a lot of recharge in that attack. I have a Council warehouse map where I just plop my Fortunata in the middle of three to four 4x8 mobs and click nothing but Aim and Psinado. So the Fortunata is swimming in the middle of a sea of Council. The worst results I ever get are 4 procs in a minute but I have gotten as many as 9 FF procs in a minute. The enhancement says two per minute - but obviously mob numbers are having an impact. My best run I had the proc go off 12 straight times. Obviously that is a lucky streak but it is never especially bad. I would say 6 or so procs a minute is a rough average if I am just spamming Psinado. I am noticing the same effect with the Power Transfer Chance to Heal proc with huge mobs. Though with Fences and Ball Lightning I have no recharge in the powers like I do for Psinado.

Bopper How about this tweeked build to salvage your Love Child hybrid? Psionic Tornado doesn't hit as hard but it is up more frequently and you gain some set bonuses for Total Domination. https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1481&c=730&a=1460&f=HEX&dc=78DA4D945B4F135110C7CF5E2AB4946B5B0A1404CAADA550A80F265E099742508824107C11D7956E6443E9D66D09FAE883EF800898F8664CF4C567BF809F455FB878170DA9D3FD0FB49B34BF39FF99D99933674F679F4C783F4C3D1B11927F3CADE772DAA8AD2FAF64AC9C76D74C591B95B3EB793D6F5A19414FF5BC691B99BE5CC758DAB25215A4743A41DA82AD9B1933F3283E69D9F9F58C9ED7CFA5D082A1AF6D58F66AB98F25E19DB3AC747CDEB2970DFBA9078BAC61A4A0CF187A96DE507BB64819766EC5CC3626B3E6727C3139BAA0CD5BEB696D56CFE529BD89DA89D06FD32BF82948E2B12A444215721A1CF7902C393E214E096DAA98204D624D6A114E5C9234059AA2042447BB50C7F483953EF0458F102ED413AE90E2686FA8870A492E6AAE8A4DD4AEDC023DDBCC55D4F24690E3D568DDA78A49AAED466DC97D49717AAC4920E625BDB70A3E57D52B680D3BA07F97B90736EE339FCB0EDF526E35E756F71635B7A889C157D7CFE41E1AB8B726EE6D87726B39B7761AB19D49F8BAD630872E5D727AED1A80DE1D559C1A61FA4EEA793FF531E168ADCC9BB4571FFB7C3CE78BCE9CDD629A7C01F605CE7C7EF846C817E47E8287A8D77404B61C33BF82ADDFC18E6FE0169D57339F57F301B45DD242D094D04F681783D84FF70FECA3FB04FA1ECDA20DB1AEB6BF9845C709F317CFE637F30F38F40967BE4FB9ED9CDB7E0367D07B8D79857915ECBBCE1C41DD7F8430EF393CCCBE01309A409D28CF3EFA45767AEF7F8DF31CA379F5706ECF3DE4F42F31EF83031AF30153074F15DCAB626EE433DE3F28BBC030AF3FE27B19E2BA439791DB48671FE3BB15E333AC272DCE772B7E1BF98949CC3831CDE4D86D9AD730E70FBFC71EEFA8E7F7BBD05AB28BCB4241CC942B83F8CAE654BEF4C51BEE441D94FF0F70D461B916817654D264D1895EE545F4A6DE929CD91E976224B1871ED56DEC7FC64780AFB05FB4B9EF77E192EE0B94ECA960C95EF2946CBDCC7E5866CF95D9FF01D62CE10E

I think the Spin route is probably better. Total Domination would be much less enticing with such a long cool down. But honestly the best part of this thread you have started is making clear how many different paths are open. As mentioned, my main has always been a Claws / Invul scrapper - so a hybrid Fortunata has been a delight for me. I put the Overwhelming Force knockdown proc in Telekinetic Blast just so that the power acts like Focus from Claws. Getting Follow Up, Spin and a Focus clone (of sorts) with a whole bunch of other toys to play with is fantastic. I would agree with Gulbasaur that the ST Confuse is beyond terrific. But I found it just did not fit with my scrapperlock mentality. It required some thought on my part. <lol> It also slowed down my helter skelter charge into the middle of the mob approach. It works great but I just kept forgetting to use it. Using the TB knock down in my single target rotation also meant Gloom had less value to me. The Gloom / Dark Obliteration combo with the -ToHit is wonderful but I really like the immobilize from Fences, getting two extra AOE attacks instead of one and the passive heals from the Power Transfer procs in both Fences and Ball Lightning. With TD and Aura of Confusion both on a 60 second cool down for me it works well to rotate them. The longer effect of Aura is nice but honestly mobs don't live long enough for that to really matter too much. Your "Love Child" build does make me want to put a Lockdown proc in TD now so that both control powers can hit at mag 5. So I need to free up a slot somehow! 🙂 So really just a play style choice at this point. I like to play as an enhanced Scrapper. Gulbasaur and Tidge are clearly playing a bit more cerebral approach.

Your lovechild looks amazing!!

My main has always been a Claws / Invul scrapper - but my Fortunata actually seems even more fun. Like a scrapper on steroids. I can't believe I never tried one during Live. My only thought looking at your build is why even pick Strike if you don't use the power? If you skip Strike you have to pick up Combat Training: Offensive but that is actually quite helpful for a build with so many proc'ed out attacks. Then you are not so dependent on using Follow-Up or Aim to get enough To Hit/Accuracy for an attack like Dark Obliteration. You could still use the enhancement set in Spin or even Total Domination but you would have to drop Combat Jumping or Assault. I'm not sure the extra defense from CJ is super important for your build. Or the extra damage from Assault even. But adding Spin as an extra AOE would be considerably more valuable than using Strike as a mule. Otherwise it appears we are both converging on a similar build. I find my four ST attacks of Lunge, Follow Up, Dominate & Telekinetic Blast to be more than enough for my needs. They all recharge so quickly that there just seems no use for another ST attack. I also opted for more recharge rather than procs on Follow Up and find the extra 5% of Melee Defense from the Spider's Bite set very handy. Also opted to use the Frozen Blast set on Psionic Tornado for the 5% AOE Defense. Psionic Tornado is great fun to use but even with procs it doesn't appear as powerful as my other AOE attacks. So it seemed like a good place for an enhancement set. With those two sets and the 5% Ranged Defense from Coercive Persuasion I'm able to forego adding a power like Combat Jumping. I can understand skipping Total Domination but I love that power quite honestly and use it every time it pops back up. Alternating Aura of Confusion and Total Domination is like ice cream with cake. Also starting to think this is becoming my favorite character. And thank you again for all the inspiration and insight as I continue to re-work my build. Your Fortunata builds have been a delight to examine and ponder.

Bopper - using five sets of Shield Wall is a bold move! 🙂 Inspired by your recent Fortuna build posts and the recent changes to Rune of Protection and the Power Transfer Proc - I've been reworking my build to boost up defense and passive healing while still trying to maintain good offense and control. Between Foresight, RoP and Melee Core Embodiment I have a good amount of resistance potential as well. It's been a hoot to play. Here is the build as it currently stands: https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1430&c=712&a=1424&f=HEX&dc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

I tried multiple tri-form Warshades back during Live but never enjoyed them at all. Too wearying for me switching back and forth. But with the recent changes to Teleportation I thought I would try a Human Only build. And it is amazing. One of my favorite toons now. Run into the middle of a map, hit Shadow Slip/Fold Space, hit Mire, then start blasting away. Everything is stunned and wandering around. I love it. Added Spring Attack to get more AOE and that power with procs is quite excellent now too. But that all said - it is indeed a pain in the butt to play without using Defensive Amplifiers to provide Status Protection. And I don't really understand why there isn't some Human Only Status Protection available for a Warshade. So I would agree, without some way to gain Status Protection I would probably strip the toon down and never play it again as well. But with Amplifiers - what a blast!

I used RoP originally then respec'ed to Tough/Weave after the duration nerf to RoP - but have been inspired by your post to re-visit. I think you are correct that the Sorcery Pool adds more value than the Fighting Pool. I am also inclined to think RoP is more useful for my build than Unrelenting for two reasons - first I can alternate with Melee Core Embodiment to cover a lot of the RoP downtime. And secondly and more importantly - by using the Mu Mastery AOE powers (Electric Fences and Ball Lightning) and slotting both with Power Transfer Chance to Heal procs and also slotting a Panacea and 3rd Chance to Heal in Stamina, I find on average I have about 20+ proc heals over the course of a minute when fighting large groups. Each proc heal is 54 points of health so I'm getting nearly 100% of my health back every minute passively through procs without the investment in powers I won't use. And that is on top of my normal regeneration. It is actually rather challenging just to count all the green 54's popping up it happens so frequently. Nearly every single use of Electric Fences and Ball Lightning triggers the proc with a large mob. The proc rate drops off significantly after the mobs are thinned out simply because I switch from using AOE attacks and start using ST attacks without the procs. But the heals seem vastly more important while surrounded by large mobs than when I am chasing down individuals any way. I also slotted the Absorb proc in Total Domination and use that power as often as possible and that also helps greatly as a passive heal of sorts. Plus the Preventive Medicine Absorb proc on top of that. So I feel like I can offset the lack of a heal without investing so many powers in the Presence Pool.

This seems to me the greatest benefit of a widow. For an especially small investment of slots you gain an amazing level of defense - which then allows huge freedom slotting attacks. Regarding how confuses are handled, my experience is that confused mobs are not especially efficient at killing themselves. There is a lot of just random running around happening. So getting some damage in on these mobs seems trivially easy - with or without procs in the confuse power itself. The downside to a widow, in my opinion, is the very small number of hit points. A widow is enormously tough - but if the random roll gods frown upon you, then a widow can go down very fast. In those situations I jump right to inspirations rather than hitting a confuse. So using the ST and AOE confuses in advance of engagement just seems easier and more intuitive for my play style. Which makes having a longer duration confuse more helpful to me. The mob *usually* dies so quickly the confuses have little impact. But not always. When Psychic Wail fails to vaporize everyone I would rather the mob attack themselves rather than my widow. But that is just how I prefer to play (overly cautiously) and one reason why I slot confuse powers in the manner I do.

I ended up with 5 AOE attacks (6 including the incarnate judgement) - Spin, Electrifying Fences, Ball Lightning, Psionic Tornado & Psychic Wail. It feels amazing to always have an AOE or two ready to fire. Psionic Tornado seems to get the least use and I could probably live without it but it is a hoot to flip bad guys up in the air backwards. I also started out with Strike and Swipe but Lunge, Follow Up and Dominate are up so quickly it seemed unnecessary to have even more single target attacks. Especially since those 3 attacks are so incredible. And Telekinetic Blast with the knockdown proc as a fourth single target attack is just more fun to use than Strike or Swipe. 🙂

Sandwich Here is my build - which I have come to greatly enjoy. I did not expect to love playing a Widow so much honestly. I also found Gloom to be of limited value and instead switched to Mu Mastery which allows for two fairly good proc'ed AOE attacks. I can also slot the self heal in both Mu AOE's which is a nice benefit. I believe Tidge is probably correct about how to slot Aura of Confusion - but I love confuse powers and also really like the Coercive Persuasion set bonuses. I've also found my Widow to be a tad fragile at times with so few hit points. So anything extra I can do to mitigate incoming damage - like using Aura of Confusion for the confuse rather than as a proc attack and using Total Domination as much as possible - seems to keep the Widow relatively unscathed. And I already have better AOE proc attacks than Aura of Confusion. But all the confuses and holds may indeed be overkill. And Tidge may be right that simply killing faster is better mitigation. I also ended up using Vigor as my incarnate alpha because of all the proc attacks. The loss of damage seemed to be offset by fewer missed attacks. But who knows. https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1432&c=724&a=1448&f=HEX&dc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

I don't believe that is true at all. I, for one, greatly appreciated the developer response on RoP once that response finally happened. I believe the posts by Faultline and Jimmy initiated a much better and more productive discussion and eventually a very nice re-work of the Sorcery Pool. It is often very difficult to give meaningful feedback without knowing why a certain action is being taken.

Very glad to hear the update is not going live until the development team is comfortable with the Sorcery Pool changes. My formalized feedback: 1. Mystic Flight is great. 2. Arcane Bolt buff and the proc mechanism make it a better and more interesting power. Would love to see the proc rate based on the number of Sorcery powers owned. But that may be too complex to put in place. But it would be awesome if the Bolt was stronger the more invested you were in the Sorcery Pool. 3. Spirit Ward is certainly better and I like that it is a toggle. But I believe it would be a much more interesting and sought after power if it also buffed the caster. This would give the power more value for folks that play solo. Would also encourage teaming with others and the use of pets. And I think it would be a somewhat unique power in that you have to remain relatively close to the pet or ally being buffed to be able to maintain the buff on yourself. I think the concept of a "mystical bond" between the caster and the ally/pet would make it well suited for the Sorcery Pool and this would distinguish the power from all the other available ally buffs. The endurance cost associated with the power would also seem more justified with a buff to both the caster and the ally. 4. I am okay with whatever happens to RoP. I would prefer a 90 second duration with a much smaller magnitude of mez protection and perhaps a smaller amount of resistance. I would also prefer that the power be able to take recharge enhancements. Seems better if players have as much control over their builds as possible. But I also recognize that a locked in recharge is helpful to lower level characters and would require less slotting. And that a shorter duration seems more palatable to the development team. Break Frees don't seem to drop that often for me as inspirations; so a frequently available, resistance-enhanced break free is not a bad power to own. But the reality is that RoP will no longer be pulling folks toward the Sorcery Pool by itself. It won't be the same draw that it used to be. 5. Which leads me to Enflame. I think Enflame should become the cornerstone power of the Sorcery Pool. A moving damage patch that can be applied to either an ally or a foe is a really cool and amazing power. I am glad that the power is now functionally better but I think it would be a much bigger draw for the Sorcery Pool if it could become significantly more powerful. At present I would not use it on any builds. It just doesn't do that much. But the thought of being able to weaponize a pet is super exciting to think about. I don't currently use pets all that much. Rarely ever even use the Lore Pets. But putting both a Spirit Ward and an Enflame toggle on a pet and letting that pet run amok would be something I would certainly change a build to accommodate. That would make Enflame a fun power to use - if Enflame was impactful enough to actually make use of. The synergy with Spirit Ward would also be cool. How the power is made more powerful doesn't really matter to me. It just needs to be better before it can become something that will draw folks to Sorcery and offset the duration reduction of RoP. The current buffs to Arcane Bolt, Spirit Ward and Enflame are a decent offset to the RoP nerf - but I don't believe the overall effect will be to move the needle much on the popularity of the Sorcery Pool. To make the Sorcery Pool more appealing and more popular and still reduce the effectiveness of RoP, then I believe going big on Enflame is the answer. And the game is already filled with wacky and over-powered attacks. Adding one more is not going to cause the same balance unease that RoP seems to cause. Basically Enflame should be the Sorcery equivalent of detonating a henchman. That would be very unique and very appealing to a lot of players I think. I would be excited to use a beefed up version of Enflame. I am okay with leaving the fear component on the power when placed on a foe - but only if the power was significantly better in the damage that it caused. Right now having the foe run around mindlessly and cause minimal damage is just frustrating. But the big draw for me would still be weaponizing pets. Thank you for all the work re-tooling this power pool. I think the Sorcery Pool has great potential. Look forward to all of this going live.

Arcane - you have offered some theories about why no one chooses "mostly, perfectly functional" powers like Flurry or Aid Self. Something along the lines of people choose Hasten and Weave out of habit without properly evaluating the powers or because people mindlessly over-value recharge and defense or something like that. But just because you have "already addressed" the issue doesn't mean what you say is especially true. I am inclined to think the CoH players are smarter than you believe and correctly choose powers they know are good and correctly avoid powers they know are weak. So that there is indeed a very strong correlation between popularity and power value. This was certainly one of the reasons offered for the Titan Weapon nerf - the unusual popularity of the set in comparison to other melee sets. Odd to argue popularity matters for Titan Weapons but doesn't matter for RoP. That all said - I appreciate the effort by the development team to overhaul the entire Sorcery pool. I think that is the proper approach. I'm not sure the changes are sufficient to make Sorcery any more desirable to choose, but maybe. I would personally like to see Spirit Ward buff both the caster and the recipient. Sort of a "mystical bond" kind of thing. So that as long as you can maintain the toggled ward on the ally (given endurance, distance and other limitations) you can receive some direct benefit to your main character from choosing and making use of this power. I think that would make the power rather unique. I am fine with the buff mechanic to Arcane Bolt but also think it is odd that triggering non-attacks would cause the buff to proc. I would honestly rather see the power increase substantially in damage based on the number of other Sorcery powers chosen (similar to how Cross Punch works). I would also love to see Enflame made into a *really* good attack. I think it is a fairly cool and amazing power conceptually and could be *extremely* fun. Not sure it's really there yet though. Maybe a larger static radius, maybe more damage, maybe an expanding radius the longer you can maintain the toggle, maybe sucking foes toward the enflamed person. not sure - just seems to need something more to push it into a place where folks are really tempted to use it on a number of builds. Right now Enflame seems sort of cool but not really all that tempting to use. But Enflame could certainly be the star of Sorcery with a few tweeks. A fun and crazy attack power makes the whole game a lot more enjoyable in my opinion. And it would make the nerf to RoP less painful. I think RoP as a frequently available enhanced Break Free is not too shabby - but I would also love to see the RoP duration extended slightly based on the number of Sorcery powers chosen. So that investing in 4 or 5 Sorcery powers could get the duration up to 50% of the time. The goal should be to get a player invested in Sorcery as a sort of Tertiary complement to the Primary and Secondary power sets. Making a power like Enflame a superstar (like Fold Space) would encourage folks to buy into Sorcery rather than just cherry-picking Pool Powers. I believe the effort here is solid. Just need some more love for Spirit Ward and Enflame to make this a home run. Thanks for listening to our concerns!!

Me too. It is fun. I only have RoP on 2 of my 20 characters. So the change to RoP has little direct impact on me. My hope is simply to see all the Pool Powers become as useful and as fun as the Teleport Pool is now. Wouldn't it be a good thing if you were just as excited about the Medicine Pool or the Concealment Pool? Making the unpopular Sorcery Pool even less appealing just seems like a strange move.

I personally feel hopeful our feedback and this whole discussion will result in a better game. I am especially grateful for Faultline's candor and perspective. Broadening the appeal of pool powers, reducing the frustration many players experience with mez effects, expanding opportunities to be creative with AT's and builds - these are good things to advocate for and I am sure the development team will be as responsive to these concerns as possible. I am not in favor of nerfing RoP without concurrent buffs to other Sorcery Pool powers - but I am otherwise thrilled with 99% of the changes put in place since the game returned.

This whole post seems like an ocean of hyperbole. The game is constantly changing. Has always been evolving and changing. Reducing the effectiveness of RoP is a change to the game. We are giving feedback about current development team game changes. Possible future changes regarding mez or pool powers or whatever are not going to cause an apocalypse.

I only use RoP on two characters - an Illusion/Time Controller and a Time/Fire Blast Defender. I am afforded the luxury of splurging on the 3 powers needed to get RoP on those two characters because Farsight and Power Boost provide such an enormous amount of defense to everything (nearly 27% and nearly 31% respectively). Toss in Clarion and I get over 41% defense to everything out of just Farsight on my Defender. So you can get pretty close to softcapping defense without a huge amount of investment.

I hear what you are saying - but it sounds like the RoP change is pretty simple. Why not just postpone that simple change until the other Sorcery powers can be improved? The developers revamped the entire Teleportation Pool at one time - which in my opinion was a great success. Why not take the same approach with the Sorcery Pool?

The update to the travel power doesn't seem to require any immediate action be taken with RoP. Wouldn't balancing the 4 non-travel Sorcery powers together be the best solution? Reducing the effectiveness of RoP in conjunction with buffs to the 3 other Sorcery powers would at least keep the Sorcery Pool from becoming even less popular and even less relevant.

This is a wonderful post. It does seem odd to simultaneously admit the Sorcery Pool is not very popular but also argue that it needs to be even less popular for balance reasons. Also odd to simultaneously state RoP is being nerfed because it is too powerful as a single power while acknowledging that the power is indeed gated behind two other under-performing powers. The difficulty arises in how to deal with a power that is too good but that is also forcibly wrapped up in a group of powers that are not very good. I would be very much in favor of delaying the nerf on RoP until the whole Sorcery pool can be re-worked. With the understanding that far too much of the value of the Sorcery Pool is now concentrated in this one power. Just speaking for myself - I would be fine with a substantial and guaranteed future nerf to RoP if the rest of the Sorcery Pool was made more useful, powerful and interesting.

Seems like a lot of effort given to moderating this thread to keep it "focused". Wouldn't it be easier to just state the reasoning behind the change to RoP so that the community can indeed discuss the issue in a focused manner instead of randomly speculating? Keeping us in the dark seems to be fueling a lot (most?) of the rambling back and forth. And while better communication "going forwards" is wonderful, that doesn't necessarily preclude better communication right now about the issue at hand. :) Thanks again for Fold Space!!!

Seems like three different debates playing out here: 1. Should certain AT's (like Blasters) have access to as much mez protection as RoP currently offers? Does offering a 90 second RoP to squishies throw the game out of balance? Is RoP "over-tuned"? My personal opinion (and one others have stated better than me) is that the ship has long sailed on this debate. I have proc'ed out tanks that do insane damage, blasters with capped defense and resistance, controllers capable of clearing maps faster than brutes, and so on. Set bonuses, temp powers, amplifiers, epic pool powers, incarnate powers and more long ago blurred the lines between AT's. Some may consider that a bad thing. I honestly feel it is one of the best aspects of CoH. The ability to create something unique - a concept and toon that no one else has. I think that is what hooks people on the game. Your character is not just a dwarf with an axe that has the exact same powers as every other dwarf with an axe. 2. Should pool powers by design be inferior choices? My personal opinion is that the game is improved by giving players more choices, more opportunity for creativity and allowing for more build diversity. So I favor strong pool power options. I don't really see the point of a power like Aid Self as it currently stands. You have to dedicate two power choices to add it to a build, it is interruptible, it takes 4.33 seconds to cast, you have to basically 6-slot the power to make it marginally useful while there is an inexpensive temp power that does roughly the same thing that is not interruptible, has a 3.33 second cast time and does not require any dedicated power choices. And there are many pool powers like Aid Self. I don't believe the game would be harmed by offering pool powers as powerful as the existing primary, secondary and epic powers one would have to forego to be able to choose such pool powers. 3. How should pool powers be balanced? The only way to balance pool powers, in my opinion, is based on usage/popularity. It is naive to think powers are chosen or not chosen independent of the utility of that power. Players prefer and choose strong and useful powers and avoid weak and less useful powers. There is a huge correlation between the relative strengths of pool powers and the relative usage/popularity of those pool powers. If you want to balance pool powers and reduce the likelihood that nearly every build has Hasten and Combat Jumping, then you need to make other pool powers desirable. The Sorcery Pool, at present, is not especially desirable. No evidence has been provided, at least, to demonstrate that it is very popular. Comparing Arcane Bolt, Mystic Flight and Rune of Protection against Maneuvers, Tactics and Assault demonstrates why. RoP is better than any Leadership Pool power but you have to take three Sorcery powers to access RoP. And three Sorcery Pool powers *as a group* does not compare especially favorably against three Leadership Pool powers as a group. And those three Sorcery powers as a group are almost never going to compare favorably against any three primary, secondary and epic powers. Reducing the utility of RoP just makes the Sorcery Pool even less desirable. I fully support Nihili's proposal to increase the utility of pool powers like Unleash Potential and then data-mine to see the effect. Raise other powers up so that Combat Jumping and Hasten are not such obvious choices. For me - only about 10% of my builds even use RoP. My melee-centric toons will be largely unaffected. But I strongly feel it is does not help the game to reduce build options. Continue adding strong powers like Fold Space instead of reducing the utility of a pool power like RoP. I would honestly be fine if RoP was nerfed if the rest of the Sorcery Pool was improved. Anything to offset the current Hasten/Combat Jumping/Tough/Weave/Maneuvers/Tactics stranglehold.

How then do you "balance" against other pool powers if not by comparing usage of those powers? Would you really nerf a power that no one actually chooses to use? If EVERY player uses a particular pool power, would that not be some indication it was over-powered? What metrics are you using to balance pool powers? The actual reality of incorporating RoP into a build means dedicating 3 of 24 powers (which generally involves a travel power, an ally buff and RoP) to gain access to a capability roughly similar to an incarnate power. The fact that those 3 power choices could *easily* be used in other ways to also obtain equivalency to an incarnate power *should* make a difference - since the justification apparently being offered to nerf this power is that it offers equivalency to an incarnate power. If you can obtain similar if not better results without incorporating RoP into your build, then that is strong evidence RoP is not over-tuned. This does seem like an "unfair advantage" situation. You are allowing AT's that don't need mez protection continued access to powers like Weave, Tactics and Hasten (pool powers that seem fundamentally as strong and certainly more popular than RoP) while reducing access to mez protection for AT's that depend on RoP. The justifications for that change don't seem very convincing to me.